filing 1040 with dependent without SSN or ITIN

[quantcook]

MD
I'm filing my 1040 now and my parents are with us for the whole of 2020. but they don't have ITIN or SSN.
in order to apply for ITIN, IRS need a tax return with their name on it.
in order to file 1040 ( at least online ), IRS need a ITIN or SSN for dependent.
it's really a chicken & egg problem now.
how shall I file my 1040 with them still as my dependent now?

thanks

 

[Taxing Matters]

MD
I'm filing my 1040 now and my parents are with us for the whole of 2020. but they don't have ITIN or SSN.
in order to apply for ITIN, IRS need a tax return with their name on it.
in order to file 1040 ( at least online ), IRS need a ITIN or SSN for dependent.
it's really a chicken & egg problem now.
how shall I file my 1040 with them still as my dependent now?

thanks

In order to claim them as your dependent you need them to have a taxpayer identifying number (TIN), which is either a Social Security Number (SSN) or Individual Taxpayer Identifying Number (ITIN). They can get the ITIN by sending their tax return, W-7, proof of identity and foreign status documents by mail to a special address, or they go in person to an acceptance agent or to specified IRS taxpayer assistance centers. See the IRS page How do I apply for an ITIN for details. What they can't do is file that first return electronically or online. If you can't get the ITINs for them before you need to file your return you have two options. File now without claiming them as dependents and then send in an amended return later or file for an extension to file your return and then file your return after they get their ITINs.

 

[quantcook]

In order to claim them as your dependent you need them to have a taxpayer identifying number (TIN), which is either a Social Security Number (SSN) or Individual Taxpayer Identifying Number (ITIN). They can get the ITIN by sending their tax return, W-7, proof of identity and foreign status documents by mail to a special address, or they go in person to an acceptance agent or to specified IRS taxpayer assistance centers. See the IRS page How do I apply for an ITIN for details. What they can't do is file that first return electronically or online. If you can't get the ITINs for them before you need to file your return you have two options. File now without claiming them as dependents and then send in an amended return later or file for an extension to file your return and then file your return after they get their ITINs.

i guess I can still file them as my dependent without ITIN using paper form now right?
and then use this return to file W7 to apply ITIN for them.

 

[Zigner]

i guess I can still file them as my dependent without ITIN using paper form now right?
and then use this return to file W7 to apply ITIN for them.

Taxing Matters' post seemed clear about your options. "File now without claiming them as dependents and then send in an amended return later or file for an extension to file your return and then file your return after they get their ITINs."
(Emphasis added)

 

[Taxing Matters]

i guess I can still file them as my dependent without ITIN using paper form now right?

No. You MUST have the SSN or ITIN of each dependent on your return when you file. So here your two options are what I specified before: (1) file now without claiming them and then do an amended return later to claim them or (2) file for an extension to file your return and then file once they have their ITINs. See the IRS page that addresses this very question. While the example used there is for claiming a daughter, it's the same answer for claiming your parents. What you can NOT do is file the return claiming them as dependents but not include their ITINs.

and then use this return to file W7 to apply ITIN for them.

No. They need to present their own return when submitting the request for ITIN, not your return. They submit their return the first year without putting any ITIN on it along with the other things (W-7, proof of identity, and proof of status) by mail to that special IRS address or in person as discussed in the link I gave you in my earlier response.

 

[quantcook]

No. You MUST have the SSN or ITIN of each dependent on your return when you file. So here your two options are what I specified before: (1) file now without claiming them and then do an amended return later to claim them or (2) file for an extension to file your return and then file once they have their ITINs. See the IRS page that addresses this very question. While the example used there is for claiming a daughter, it's the same answer for claiming your parents. What you can NOT do is file the return claiming them as dependents but not include their ITINs.



No. They need to present their own return when submitting the request for ITIN, not your return. They submit their return the first year without putting any ITIN on it along with the other things (W-7, proof of identity, and proof of status) by mail to that special IRS address or in person as discussed in the link I gave you in my earlier response.

can they file any return on their own without itin or ssn?

 

[Taxing Matters]

can they file any return on their own without itin or ssn?

They can only file their first return that way, and only by following the instructions given by the IRS here: How do I get an ITIN? They can't file the returns using the normal return filing processes without their ITINs. They need to follow the instructions given on that IRS page. Go and see a tax professional for help if you are having trouble understanding the process.

 

[quantcook]

They can only file their first return that way, and only by following the instructions given by the IRS here: How do I get an ITIN? They can't file the returns using the normal return filing processes without their ITINs. They need to follow the instructions given on that IRS page. Go and see a tax professional for help if you are having trouble understanding the process.

i got it. it's close to impossible to schedule with IRS local office now. the 1800# basically wasted.

 

[davew9128]

i got it. it's close to impossible to schedule with IRS local office now. the 1800# basically wasted.

Your best bet is to find a CAA and schedule an appointment (live or virtual) with them. That way, you don't lose the use of the identity documents for as long as it takes IRS to process the ITIN.

 

[LdiJ]

MD
I'm filing my 1040 now and my parents are with us for the whole of 2020. but they don't have ITIN or SSN.
in order to apply for ITIN, IRS need a tax return with their name on it.
in order to file 1040 ( at least online ), IRS need a ITIN or SSN for dependent.
it's really a chicken & egg problem now.
how shall I file my 1040 with them still as my dependent now?

thanks

It is actually NOT a chicken and egg problem. However, in order to claim them, you have to include ITIN applications for them with a tax return that you mail in to a specific IRS location. The IRS then processes the ITIN applications and attaches the ITIN numbers to the tax return and then the tax return is processed. There are numerous problems involved with this process.

You have to send the IRS original identification for your parents. You cannot send copies. Therefore your parents will have to be without their ID for however long it takes the IRS to process the applications.

With the IRS being so backed up dealing with mailed in tax returns due to the coronavirus, you could be looking at your parents being without their ID for many, many months.

On top of that, the most benefit that you can get from claiming an adult dependent is $500.00. So, you have to ask yourself (and your parents) is it worth them being without their IDs for many months?

Our firm used to be a certified acceptance agent for ITIN applications. We stopped being one when the IRS instituted the rule that original ID documents had to be provided to them. We did not want any responsibility in that procedure.

 

[LdiJ]

No. You MUST have the SSN or ITIN of each dependent on your return when you file. So here your two options are what I specified before: (1) file now without claiming them and then do an amended return later to claim them or (2) file for an extension to file your return and then file once they have their ITINs. See the IRS page that addresses this very question. While the example used there is for claiming a daughter, it's the same answer for claiming your parents. What you can NOT do is file the return claiming them as dependents but not include their ITINs.



No. They need to present their own return when submitting the request for ITIN, not your return. They submit their return the first year without putting any ITIN on it along with the other things (W-7, proof of identity, and proof of status) by mail to that special IRS address or in person as discussed in the link I gave you in my earlier response.

The bolded is incorrect. If you will look at the first part of the W-7, you will see very clearly that it can be processed for a dependent on a US citizen's or resident alien's tax return.

 

[quantcook]

The bolded is incorrect. If you will look at the first part of the W-7, you will see very clearly that it can be processed for a dependent on a US citizen's or resident alien's tax return.

ok. let me summarize,
1. we file our 1040 without them first.
2. parents file their own 1040-NR, without any ITIN or SSN on it.
3. wait for IRS to return parents tax transcript. ( is this right ?)
4. use the IRS transcript and their original passport to apply for ITIN using W7.
5. using 1040X to amend our tax return with parents as dependent.

is it right?

 

[davew9128]

Our firm used to be a certified acceptance agent for ITIN applications. We stopped being one when the IRS instituted the rule that original ID documents had to be provided to them. We did not want any responsibility in that procedure.

Fairly certain IRS backed off on that rule. A know a couple of CAAs that said so, and I don't recall that procedure being in place when I sent in my own CAA app a few months ago.

 

[LdiJ]

ok. let me summarize,
1. we file our 1040 without them first.
2. parents file their own 1040-NR, without any ITIN or SSN on it.
3. wait for IRS to return parents tax transcript. ( is this right ?)
4. use the IRS transcript and their original passport to apply for ITIN using W7.
5. using 1040X to amend our tax return with parents as dependent.

is it right?

No

No, you do not file your 1040 without them. You include them, but with no number
You include ITIN applications for them with your tax return, that you mail in to the IRS
Since Dave says that the IRS no longer requires original ID documents, you send them certified copes.
The IRS will process the ITIN applications first. They will then process the tax return.
It will take probably at least six months for the process to happen.

You can opt to file your tax return without them and then file an amended return with their ITIN applications. They should NOT file a return for themselves.

 

[davew9128]

No, you do not file your 1040 without them. You include them, but with no number
You include ITIN applications for them with your tax return, that you mail in to the IRS
Since Dave says that the IRS no longer requires original ID documents, you send them certified copes.
The IRS will process the ITIN applications first. They will then process the tax return.

I just want to clarify that IRS isn't requiring original docs attached with a W7 when submitted by a CAA. They are still required if sending directly to IRS without the use of a CAA.