Distribution of estate possesions from unowned property.

[Cooper@1960]

In Ohio. Couldn't figure out a better thread title, sorry.

My elder brother has lived in a camper tucked into a barn for over 25 years, not in any way a legal residence, also he has lived there rent free. The barn and property are owned by my sister and her husband who hate my brother as much as he hates them.

My brother has me as executor of his estate and his wish is upon his death that I sell or auction off his possessions then give the proceeds to his two children. He hasn't seen his children in over forty years, or spoke to either in probably twenty years, but says he knows where they live.

My sister and BIL insist that once my brother dies everything in the barn and on the property becomes their property.

So how will this work? When my brother passes can I pad lock the barn so others can't go in there and take stuff? Is it theft if they remove property? Can I have an auction on their property without their permission?

I hate to be in the middle of this but do want to see my brothers estate handled as he wishes.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Related thread: Brother keeping junk cars on sister's property.

Perhaps your brother should have a will written, sell the crap off NOW, and put the proceeds into a bank account. That way you're not stuck with the problem. Your sister and BIL are incorrect about the rules of intestate succession. However, it might cost more money suing them than the estate is worth, and they might be considered creditors of his estate, depending on their arrangement(s) with him.

ASSUME you will not be able to unload the stuff for enough money to keep anyone happy. Spend your time getting your brother therapy for his hoarding issues.

His kids haven't spoken to him for over 20 years for a reason. They are not interested in his stuff either.

 

[adjusterjack]

My brother has me as executor of his estate

You're not the executor of anything unless your brother has a will. The will just nominates you as executor. When he dies you will have to go to probate court and obtain court papers authorizing you to act as executor.

Ohio intestate (no will) succession:

If no surviving spouse, assets go to the children.

Ohio Intestacy Laws – heirbase.com

The children are free to disclaim their inheritance. That leaves it up to you and your sister as to what to do with his belongings.

You, of course, can also disclaim your inheritance and decline to be executor. Thus leaving everything in your sister's capable hands.

 

[Cooper@1960]

I am helping him get a legal will prepared now, including a living will and a durable power of attorney for health care. He wants me to handle the estate, that is what prompted my questions, but I am not a beneficiary.

 

[LdiJ]

In Ohio. Couldn't figure out a better thread title, sorry.

My elder brother has lived in a camper tucked into a barn for over 25 years, not in any way a legal residence, also he has lived there rent free. The barn and property are owned by my sister and her husband who hate my brother as much as he hates them.

My brother has me as executor of his estate and his wish is upon his death that I sell or auction off his possessions then give the proceeds to his two children. He hasn't seen his children in over forty years, or spoke to either in probably twenty years, but says he knows where they live.

My sister and BIL insist that once my brother dies everything in the barn and on the property becomes their property.

So how will this work? When my brother passes can I pad lock the barn so others can't go in there and take stuff? Is it theft if they remove property? Can I have an auction on their property without their permission?

I hate to be in the middle of this but do want to see my brothers estate handled as he wishes.

Does your brother have anything of real value? If so, he could remove those items and put them in storage now, so that all that is left is the 25+ year old camper which is likely of little worth, and his personal posessions.

 

[zddoodah]

My brother has me as executor of his estate and his wish is upon his death that I sell or auction off his possessions then give the proceeds to his two children. He hasn't seen his children in over forty years, or spoke to either in probably twenty years, but says he knows where they live.

When you wrote that he "has [you] as executor of his estate," what you really meant is that he wants you to be executor. As you've already been told, those are VERY different things. You aren't and won't have any authority as executor until your brother dies and a court appoints you as executor. Also, you're under no obligation to serve as executor just because he nominates you.

Also, him knowing where his kids live is largely meaningless unless he conveys that information to you or someone else before he dies. Typically, one would include addresses for all heirs named in a will. Did he do that?

My sister and BIL insist that once my brother dies everything in the barn and on the property becomes their property.

OK...absent some sort of contract to that effect, that's wrong. However, what this tells me is that, if you choose to become executor after your brother dies, you may have to get into a legal battle with your sister and brother-in-law.

So how will this work? When my brother passes can I pad lock the barn so others can't go in there and take stuff? Is it theft if they remove property? Can I have an auction on their property without their permission?

You can't do any of that without a court order.

"LdiJ" asks an excellent question and makes a good point.

 

[Cooper@1960]

I understand at this time there is no executor, he simply asked me if I would be willing. Today I dropped off paperwork for assigning the executor, living will, durable power of attorney, and some blank generic wills. Also the name and number of who I had prepare my estate and a strong recommendation he contact him to make sure things are legal. That ball is in his court now.

To answer LDJ....Only titled property brother owns is his car, value of $2,500 maybe, and no he doesn't own the camper he lives in, that belongs to our sister. No life insurance, no retirement savings, no investments. He does have checking and savings account but hasn't worked in 35 years so can't imagine there's much there but he didn't share those numbers.

He told me today he wants everything sold and then all proceeds divided between his kids, yes I told him that needs to be declared in his will and legally filed. Truthfully I will be surprised if there's any money left to send them, considering burial expenses (I'm trying to get him to pre pay) and the cost to clean up the property in the end I get the feeling it's going to cost me out of pocket.

So....if brother gets everything filed and assigns me as executor can I legally pad lock the barn and camper to keep my sister from taking things? FYI there has never been a lease agreement and the barn is not a legal dwelling.

Why do I feel like I'm writing a Dear Abby letter?

Thanks for your help folks.

 

[not2cleverRed]

He told me today he wants everything sold and then all proceeds divided between his kids, yes I told him that needs to be declared in his will and legally filed. Truthfully I will be surprised if there's any money left to send them, considering burial expenses (I'm trying to get him to pre pay) and the cost to clean up the property in the end I get the feeling it's going to cost me out of pocket.

Perhaps he should look into anatomical gift programs. Donate one's body to a medical school, and when they're done they cremate it at no cost to the donor's estate. Several relatives of mine have done that - not due to poverty, but the family didn't mind the lack of burial expenses. Of course, even if one has done all the paperwork to set it up, sometimes things happen that result in one's body not qualifying. Without going into detail, age and cancer are not the negative factors.

Just a pragmatic thought.

It's nice that he's thinking of his children, but you are correct: there probably won't be much in the way of $ to give them.

Good luck.

 

[zddoodah]

Only titled property brother owns is his car, value of $2,500 maybe, and no he doesn't own the camper he lives in, that belongs to our sister. No life insurance, no retirement savings, no investments. He does have checking and savings account but hasn't worked in 35 years so can't imagine there's much there but he didn't share those numbers.

So...his estate is likely to be worth maybe $5k at the most? I don't know your family dynamic, but that's really not worth anyone's time and effort. However, Ohio probably has a small estate process that would make things more simple.

So....if brother gets everything filed and assigns me as executor can I legally pad lock the barn and camper to keep my sister from taking things?

I'm not sure what you contemplate him filing (or where), but the answer is no. If I understand you correctly, he lives in a camper that he doesn't own, in a barn on property he doesn't own. Access to his property will be completely at the whim of your sister and brother-in-law (unless you want to spend your own money or deplete the estate to nothing and hire a lawyer).

Why do I feel like I'm writing a Dear Abby letter?

Because the amount of money at issue makes the practical/personal issues take precedence over the legal issues.

 

[adjusterjack]

So....if brother gets everything filed and assigns me as executor can I legally pad lock the barn and camper to keep my sister from taking things?

No.

The barn and the camper belong to your sister. You would be trespassing if you stepped on to her property without either her consent or a court order compelling her to allow access.

Here's what Dear Abby would tell you:

I don't know why you are contemplating going to war over an old car and worthless household goods. I suggest you give your brother a reality check. His kids won't want anything from him. Convince him to leave all his stuff to his sister as thanks for all the years he lived there rent free. She can be executor.

 

[Cooper@1960]

Cooper@1960 said:
So....if brother gets everything filed and assigns me as executor can I legally pad lock the barn and camper to keep my sister from taking things?

zddoodah said :
not sure what you contemplate him filing (or where), but the answer is no. If I understand you correctly, he lives in a camper that he doesn't own, in a barn on property he doesn't own. Access to his property will be completely at the whim of your sister and brother-in-law (unless you want to spend your own money or deplete the estate to nothing and hire a lawyer).

What I meant by "filed" is to have his estate papers filed with the probate court prior to his death, thats what I did with my documents.


adjusterjack said:

No.

barn and the camper belong to your sister. You would be trespassing if you stepped on to her property without either her consent or a court order compelling her to allow access.

Thank you, that was one of the important questions I wanted answered.

 

[Cooper@1960]

Perhaps he should look into anatomical gift programs. Donate one's body to a medical school, and when they're done they cremate it at no cost to the donor's estate. Several relatives of mine have done that - not due to poverty, but the family didn't mind the lack of burial expenses. Of course, even if one has done all the paperwork to set it up, sometimes things happen that result in one's body not qualifying. Without going into detail, age and cancer are not the negative factors.

Just a pragmatic thought.

It's nice that he's thinking of his children, but you are correct: there probably won't be much in the way of $ to give them.

Good luck.

That's a very good suggestion, I will look into that and bring it up to him, and consider it for myself also. Thank you

 

[bcr229]

If all he truly has of value is the car and bank accounts, he can set you up as the beneficiary/pay on death for the bank accounts, and put you on the car title as a co-owner. Then your sister can deal with his personal belongings (donate or toss) as they won't have much value, and you can divide up the proceeds from the car and bank accounts between his kids without having to deal with probate.

 

[Zigner]

... put you on the car title as a co-owner.

That might not be the best idea as the OP could end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit if the brother causes an accident. For a $2,500 car, it wouldn't be worth the possible liability (in my opinion).

 

[adjusterjack]

put you on the car title as a co-owner.

As Zigner indicated, that could be dangerous.

Besides, it's not necessary.

Ohio allows for transfer on death beneficiary designations for vehicles.

Ohio BMV