Is my former apartment complex illegally withholding money? (Gilbert, AZ)

[jimdodds95]

Hello! My old roommate and I recently moved out from an apartment complex here in Arizona. Our move-out date on the contract was February 6, but in order to not get a late fee, they said pay all of February's rent, and then we would get a pro-rated refund for the remainder of the month we weren't there. However, they have refused to give us either our deposit back or a significant chunk of our pro-rated refund promised on that month's rent, because they are claiming damages. The two things in particular are a front door with dents in it (we actually listed that in the unit condition report when we moved in), and then additionally something with the bathtub (we never had any issues with the bathtub, and when we have asked for clarification they have not seemed to have any sort of actual answer of what is wrong with it, as there was nothing wrong with it). I have tried to see if I can log back in to the resident portal in order to see if I can access the original unit condition report that we filled out when we moved in, but it appears we no longer have access to the resident portal. I am worried that they may say that they conveniently can't find the form now & keep the several hundred dollars.

 

[quincy]

Hello! My old roommate and I recently moved out from an apartment complex here in Arizona. Our move-out date on the contract was February 6, but in order to not get a late fee, they said pay all of February's rent, and then we would get a pro-rated refund for the remainder of the month we weren't there. However, they have refused to give us either our deposit back or a significant chunk of our pro-rated refund promised on that month's rent, because they are claiming damages. The two things in particular are a front door with dents in it (we actually listed that in the unit condition report when we moved in), and then additionally something with the bathtub (we never had any issues with the bathtub, and when we have asked for clarification they have not seemed to have any sort of actual answer of what is wrong with it, as there was nothing wrong with it). I have tried to see if I can log back in to the resident portal in order to see if I can access the original unit condition report that we filled out when we moved in, but it appears we no longer have access to the resident portal. I am worried that they may say that they conveniently can't find the form now & keep the several hundred dollars.

Neither you nor your roommate retained a copy of the move-in check list at the time of move-in? Did you take before and after photos of the apartment to illustrate the condition of the rental at move in and move out?

You paid a full month’s rent to cover all of February even though you were only obligated to pay six days rent?

How much was your security deposit? How much of the deposit is being claimed as damages?

Depending on the answers to the above questions, you could have difficulty showing a court that you are entitled to a refund. When did apartment management send you a notice of damages and deductions from your security deposits?

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to Arizona’s security deposit law:

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/33/01321.htm

 

[jimdodds95]

Neither you nor your roommate retained a copy of the move-in check list at the time of move-in? Did you take before and after photos of the apartment to illustrate the condition of the rental at move in and move out?

You paid a full month’s rent to cover all of February even though you were only obligated to pay six days rent?

How much was your security deposit? How much of the deposit is being claimed as damages?

Depending on the answers to the above questions, you could have difficulty showing a court that you are entitled to a refund. When did apartment management send you a notice of damages and deductions from your security deposits?

Thanks for your response!

Correct, we paid a full month's rent to cover all of February because the way their system works, payment cycles are at the beginning of the month, and we would have risked getting late fees per day not paid in full had we not paid the full month, given how their payment system works. They told us they would pay us a pro-rated refund for the portion of the month we were not there (the remainder of February after the 6th), as that is when the contract ended. Don't remember the exact amount they would have owed us (would have to pull out paperwork and communications), but in the ballpark of several hundred dollars.

The deposit, on the other hand, was $300. It is my understanding (I would have to further discuss details with my old roommate, as he was the primary name on the account, and I was listed as an additional tenant) that they are withholding both the deposit and a significant chunk of the refund owed to us (somewhere in the several hundred dollar range) claiming these damages.

They did let him know fairly soon after we moved out about the claimed damages, but having looked briefly at Arizona rental laws and even talked with the landlords at my current complex regarding the situation, it would seem they are required to send us a detailed description of what is damaged, photos detailing the damage, and invoices for repairs in order to be able to withhold even the deposit. They have been very vague about what the supposed damages are, and have not even sent photos or invoices for repairs. Additionally, even if they can make a legal claim on the deposit, would it even be legal for them to withhold the pro-rated refund? That is refund money that is contractually owed to us (given our departure date on the contract of February 6), and I get the impression cannot be legally used to cover for claimed damages, especially when they are not being clear on what the damages are.

Also, a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda here, as I do not have a copy of the check-list now (have lost access to the resident portal, where it would have been posted, since moving out), and do not have photos of the unit before, so if they do the proper legwork on their end (actually take detailed photos and send the detailed invoices), I think it would be hard at that point to make a case for getting our deposit money back, but how about the pro-rated refund? Is that really legal to withhold that? I guess looking at Section D of the law, it may actually be considered legal.

 

[quincy]

You and your roommate had a limited time (60 days?) to respond to and dispute the landlord’s claim of damages that exceeded the security deposit. If I read the security deposit law correctly, it appears that even an overpayment of rent can be used, in addition to the security deposit, to cover the cost of damage repair.

 

[jimdodds95]

You and your roommate had a limited time (60 days?) to respond to and dispute the landlord’s claim of damages that exceeded the security deposit. If I read the security deposit law correctly, it appears that even an overpayment of rent can be used, in addition to the security deposit, to cover the cost of damage repair.

That does seem to be how I would read that text. I think we are still within the 60 day window of when they informed us, however. Would a dispute have to be made in person with them, in writing with them, or in court?

 

[quincy]

That does seem to be how I would read that text. I think we are still within the 60 day window of when they informed us, however. Would a dispute have to be made in person with them, in writing with them, or in court?

I don’t see that this is spelled out in the law but generally you would want to send any communication by certified mail, return receipt requested, so you have a good record to refer to, should the matter wind up in court.

The landlord had 14 days from move-out date to send the itemized list and notice of claimed damages. After receipt of this, you/your roommate had 60 days to respond/dispute. It is possible that you still have a day or two left to dispute the amounts - but you have to move fast.

Good luck.

 

[jimdodds95]

I don’t see that this is spelled out in the law but generally you would want to send any communication by certified mail, return receipt requested, so you have a good record to refer to, should the matter wind up in court.

The landlord had 14 days from move-out date to send the itemized list and notice of claimed damages. After receipt of this, you/your roommate had 60 days to respond/dispute. It is possible that you still have a day or two left to dispute the amounts - but you have to move fast.

Good luck.

As a follow-up, my roommate HAS called to question and dispute the charges before. What amount of time would we have once the dispute has been claimed? We are planning on going together to the complex office this upcoming Friday. Would you recommend anything we should/shouldn't say and/or ask them that would help our case in getting our money back?

 

[adjusterjack]

I owned rentals in Phoenix for 20 years.

Here's a list of your life lessons from the school of hard knocks.

1 - When you first rent a place, the day you sign the lease and get the keys is your monthly due date. If move in date is the 6th, your due date is the 6th of every month. If the landlord won't accept that, look elsewhere. The pro-rate thing ends up in a dispute that screws the tenant.

2 - Move-in inspection. Photograph every inch of the place, up one side and down the other. Make a written list of everything that's wrong that you don't want to be responsible for. Keep copies. Keep several duplicates in safe places - on your phone, on your computer, in a file cabinet. Because if you don't have it when you move out, you pay, because you can't prove the condition when you moved in and the landlord is not going to give you anything that works against him.

3 - Move-out inspection. Again, photographs and written list and keep copies.

4 - The lease - read every word before you sign it. Understand every word before you sign it. Keep copies. Don't lose it.

5 - By the way, there is no difference between primary tenant and additional tenant. You are both equally responsible for the terms and conditions of the lease.

6 - Never rely on anything you were "told." "I was told" is the most dangerous phrase in the English language. Get it in writing, put it in writing.

The only thing I can tell you about getting your money back is that you may have to sue the landlord in small claims court.

 

[quincy]

As a follow-up, my roommate HAS called to question and dispute the charges before. What amount of time would we have once the dispute has been claimed? We are planning on going together to the complex office this upcoming Friday. Would you recommend anything we should/shouldn't say and/or ask them that would help our case in getting our money back?

First, get the dispute in writing, signed and dated by both of you, and present it to the landlord.

Before your appointment with the landlord, stop by a small claims court and pick up a complaint form. Fill it out. Make copies. Don’t file the complaint yet but take it with you when you visit the landlord, with whatever evidence you have that supports your claim that you are due a refund of X amount of dollars.

If you cannot get a refund (or a promise in writing, signed and dated that you will receive $X on such and such a date), go back to court and file the complaint.

I worry however that you don’t have any evidence.

For legal assistance prior to your visit with the landlord and to check up on what has been suggested here, here is a link to the AZLawHelp organization:

https://www.azlawhelp.org/viewresults.cfm?mc=3&sc=24

 

[jimdodds95]

I owned rentals in Phoenix for 20 years.

Here's a list of your life lessons from the school of hard knocks.

1 - When you first rent a place, the day you sign the lease and get the keys is your monthly due date. If move in date is the 6th, your due date is the 6th of every month. If the landlord won't accept that, look elsewhere. The pro-rate thing ends up in a dispute that screws the tenant.

2 - Move-in inspection. Photograph every inch of the place, up one side and down the other. Make a written list of everything that's wrong that you don't want to be responsible for. Keep copies. Keep several duplicates in safe places - on your phone, on your computer, in a file cabinet. Because if you don't have it when you move out, you pay, because you can't prove the condition when you moved in and the landlord is not going to give you anything that works against him.

3 - Move-out inspection. Again, photographs and written list and keep copies.

4 - The lease - read every word before you sign it. Understand every word before you sign it. Keep copies. Don't lose it.

5 - By the way, there is no difference between primary tenant and additional tenant. You are both equally responsible for the terms and conditions of the lease.

6 - Never rely on anything you were "told." "I was told" is the most dangerous phrase in the English language. Get it in writing, put it in writing.

The only thing I can tell you about getting your money back is that you may have to sue the landlord in small claims court.

Yes, we still have copies of the lease, but for what it's worth, we were "told" did in that case mean in writing, so that helps us out there at least (neither of us would have paid if it hadn't been in writing). Also, yes, I know we are both equally responsible for anything; I was just clarifying him as the primary account holder at that apartment complex is all. Definitely appreciate the thoughts and comments. But I do agree that without the thoroughness described above (which in retrospect, given all of the incompetence we experienced when we first moved in, should have been a solid indicator of the need for this), it may be an uphill battle for us at best.

 

[quincy]

If you have time to post back Friday, I’d be interested in learning how the landlord responded. Good luck.

 

[jimdodds95]

If you have time to post back Friday, I’d be interested in learning how the landlord responded. Good luck.

Thanks for the follow-up. I'll also add that, as I'm talking with my roommate now, he recalls doing a video walkthrough at the beginning of our time there and is looking to see if he can find it. Additionally, he told me he never received a list of damages in the mail (nor did I), and I see Section D of the law requires damages be sent via First Class Mail. Between that fact and the fact that he did indeed call to dispute the charges before, it seems to me we should still have a case at this point. I will let you know what they say Friday, but please let me know if you have any suggestions on what to say/not say or ask/not ask them when we stop by their office.

 

[quincy]

Thanks for the follow-up. I'll also add that, as I'm talking with my roommate now, he recalls doing a video walkthrough at the beginning of our time there and is looking to see if he can find it. Additionally, he told me he never received a list of damages in the mail (nor did I), and I see Section D of the law requires damages be sent via First Class Mail. Between that fact and the fact that he did indeed call to dispute the charges before, it seems to me we should still have a case at this point. I will let you know what they say Friday, but please let me know if you have any suggestions on what to say/not say or ask/not ask them when we stop by their office.

You can contact the AZ Law Help organization (link provided earlier) for direction on what to say and what you shouldn’t say to your landlord. I can only advise that you have with you on Friday all of the evidence you have that supports your claims that you and your roommate are owed a refund. Certainly having a video of the original walkthrough of the apartment can help show the condition of the rental when you moved in. I hope your roommate can find the video.

Good luck.

 

[adjusterjack]

let me know if you have any suggestions on what to say

One thing to point out in your discussion is that the AZ security deposit statute allows for double damages for non-compliance. In other words, you sue for twice what you are owed.