CSC charge for slapping another boy on the butt

[anon2024]

I don't have Money for an attorney.

A group of boys were at school at recess. They were all talking smack to each other, some more than others. A few of them were slapping each other on the butt. One of the boys that my son allegedly slapped on the butt went to the principal. The principal got the law involved.

On a later date, the same boy fell off of his bike. He went home and told his mother that he was chased and pushed off of the bike. He broke his arm.

My son (12 at the time) was brought in for questioning several weeks later. We declined to speak about anything without an attorney.

Nearly a year later, the prosecutor is now pressing charges for the 2 most serious offenses for the alleged crimes (Michigan).

csc 4th degree, and aggravated assault.

A plea offer was made to plead to the aggravated assault, and the csc charge would be dropped.

The problem we have with accepting a deal is that the "assault" incident did not happen. Based on the couple of witnesses, the boy fled off, fell...and went home crying to mom (possibly trying to get the other kids in trouble). No one touched him.

Our court appointed attorney has been late for both court dates, knew very little about the details, and is trying to convince us to not take it to trial.

We firmly believe that the "butt slap" is not deserving of, and does not meet the elements of a csc charge.

There were other kids involved. Only my son and another boy were charged. Apparently, the "victim" was also slapping kids on their butt...but trying to prove that may or may not be difficult.

We don't have money to hire an attorney. I figured at worst/best, my son may be guilty of a simple assault. We don't know what to do...

 

[LdiJ]

I don't have Money for an attorney.

A group of boys were at school at recess. They were all talking smack to each other, some more than others. A few of them were slapping each other on the butt. One of the boys that my son allegedly slapped on the butt went to the principal. The principal got the law involved.

On a later date, the same boy fell off of his bike. He went home and told his mother that he was chased and pushed off of the bike. He broke his arm.

My son (12 at the time) was brought in for questioning several weeks later. We declined to speak about anything without an attorney.

Nearly a year later, the prosecutor is now pressing charges for the 2 most serious offenses for the alleged crimes (Michigan).

csc 4th degree, and aggravated assault.

A plea offer was made to plead to the aggravated assault, and the csc charge would be dropped.

The problem we have with accepting a deal is that the "assault" incident did not happen. Based on the couple of witnesses, the boy fled off, fell...and went home crying to mom (possibly trying to get the other kids in trouble). No one touched him.

Our court appointed attorney has been late for both court dates, knew very little about the details, and is trying to convince us to not take it to trial.

We firmly believe that the "butt slap" is not deserving of, and does not meet the elements of a csc charge.

There were other kids involved. Only my son and another boy were charged. Apparently, the "victim" was also slapping kids on their butt...but trying to prove that may or may not be difficult.

We don't have money to hire an attorney. I figured at worst/best, my son may be guilty of a simple assault. We don't know what to do...

Your choices at this point are to find a way to find the money for a private attorney, or convince the court appointed attorney to give your son's case more priority. You will need witnesses to help establish that no one pushed the boy off his bicycle, particularly your son. You will also need witnesses to establish just what was going on with the butt slapping. This is all of course assuming that you have the full story as to what went on.
Criminal Sexual Conduct and Aggravated assault both do seem a bit harsh for what you are describing but the prosecutor obviously believes that those charges are either appropriate or enough to scare you into pleading to something less harsh. Only a local attorney is going to be able to give you a reasonable opinion of that.

 

[adjusterjack]

I'm not a lawyer. I can't tell you what to do.

If it was me and my kid didn't do it I would insist on a trial and make the public defender work for his pay.

Strategically, however, it occurs to me that a trial would require the prosecutor to also work at it. Getting witnesses and the complainant to show up in court might be problematic.

You might be offered a better deal just before the trial starts.

You might also end up with the charges dismissed when the prosecutor figures out what kind of work it will take.

 

[Bali Hai Again]

Your choices at this point are to find a way to find the money for a private attorney, or convince the court appointed attorney to give your son's case more priority. You will need witnesses to help establish that no one pushed the boy off his bicycle, particularly your son. You will also need witnesses to establish just what was going on with the butt slapping. This is all of course assuming that you have the full story as to what went on.
Criminal Sexual Conduct and Aggravated assault both do seem a bit harsh for what you are describing but the prosecutor obviously believes that those charges are either appropriate or enough to scare you into pleading to something less harsh. Only a local attorney is going to be able to give you a reasonable opinion of that.

See above bold. I agree the son who was charged needs a defense. But more importantly the prosecutor needs evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction. I think a jury would be very skeptical believing the victim in this case.

 

[anon2024]

See above bold. I agree the son who was charged needs a defense. But more importantly the prosecutor needs evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction. I think a jury would be very skeptical believing the victim in this case.

A jury trial scares me because for one, they don't know the law, and for 2...the boy is already being painted as someone who gets picked on, etc.

 

[LdiJ]

A jury trial scares me because for one, they don't know the law, and for 2...the boy is already being painted as someone who gets picked on, etc.

Which is why you need to know what the witnesses are going to say. You aren't going to find that out without your attorney taking the steps to find that out.

 

[adjusterjack]

A jury trial scares me because for one, they don't know the law,

They will know the law because the judge will instruct them on the law before they go out for deliberation.

You can google your state's jury instructions for each charge and learn what the prosecution has to prove.

the boy is already being painted as someone who gets picked on, etc.

He's 13. Enroll him in martial arts so he learns confidence and self esteem and how to back away when smack is talked.

 

[stealth2]

He's 13. Enroll him in martial arts so he learns confidence and self esteem and how to back away when smack is talked.

I think OP was talking about the victim.

 

[adjusterjack]

Wasn't clear. OP should clear that up.

 

[commentator]

A couple of things that I find worrisome. Fiirst of all, that of all the "butt smackers" it sounds like the principal got your son in trouble with the law. This is problematic because how did he happen to be the only one to get the law involved on him? Then a few weeks later, the other boy "FLED off and fell and went home to Mom." This sounds not like he was just riding by, but suspiciously like someone was causing him to feel like it might be wise to flee, And you know, who'd be most likely to be angry with this boy? That'd be your son, who'd already gotten in trouble over the butt slap incident. This other boy is being portrayed as someone who gets picked on? That means he's not going to be seen as an equally guilty butt slapper or aggressor. If I were on a jury, or listening to this to make a judgment, with a long history of hearing cases and deciding who is most believable in the incident, I'd tend to presume your child had done more than done less from what I'm hearing.

I think it would be very wise to get an attorney. I just don't think you're going to be the one who is most believable if this goes to court. You need to get a local attorney who can hear it from the ground there, can see the people involved, hear the stories and will know more about your chances of coming out ahead on this.

 

[stealth2]

A couple of things that I find worrisome. Fiirst of all, that of all the "butt smackers" it sounds like the principal got your son in trouble with the law. This is problematic because how did he happen to be the only one to get the law involved on him? Then a few weeks later, the other boy "FLED off and fell and went home to Mom." This sounds not like he was just riding by, but suspiciously like someone was causing him to feel like it might be wise to flee, And you know, who'd be most likely to be angry with this boy? That'd be your son, who'd already gotten in trouble over the butt slap incident. This other boy is being portrayed as someone who gets picked on? That means he's not going to be seen as an equally guilty butt slapper or aggressor. If I were on a jury, or listening to this to make a judgment, with a long history of hearing cases and deciding who is most believable in the incident, I'd tend to presume your child had done more than done less from what I'm hearing.

I definitely got a bullying vibe...

 

[adjusterjack]

Is the consensus here that the son is the bully and we aren't getting the real story?

 

[stealth2]

Is the consensus here that the son is the bully and we aren't getting the real story?

It's the feeling I get. I could be wrong.

 

[quincy]

I don't have Money for an attorney.

A group of boys were at school at recess. They were all talking smack to each other, some more than others. A few of them were slapping each other on the butt. One of the boys that my son allegedly slapped on the butt went to the principal. The principal got the law involved.

On a later date, the same boy fell off of his bike. He went home and told his mother that he was chased and pushed off of the bike. He broke his arm.

My son (12 at the time) was brought in for questioning several weeks later. We declined to speak about anything without an attorney.

Nearly a year later, the prosecutor is now pressing charges for the 2 most serious offenses for the alleged crimes (Michigan).

csc 4th degree, and aggravated assault.

A plea offer was made to plead to the aggravated assault, and the csc charge would be dropped.

The problem we have with accepting a deal is that the "assault" incident did not happen. Based on the couple of witnesses, the boy fled off, fell...and went home crying to mom (possibly trying to get the other kids in trouble). No one touched him.

Our court appointed attorney has been late for both court dates, knew very little about the details, and is trying to convince us to not take it to trial.

We firmly believe that the "butt slap" is not deserving of, and does not meet the elements of a csc charge.

There were other kids involved. Only my son and another boy were charged. Apparently, the "victim" was also slapping kids on their butt...but trying to prove that may or may not be difficult.

We don't have money to hire an attorney. I figured at worst/best, my son may be guilty of a simple assault. We don't know what to do...

A question: Your son was 12 at the time. Did the incident that got reported to the police occur when your son was in elementary school? Were all of those involved in the same grade/same age or were some of the kids younger?

 

[anon2024]

A couple of things that I find worrisome. Fiirst of all, that of all the "butt smackers" it sounds like the principal got your son in trouble with the law. This is problematic because how did he happen to be the only one to get the law involved on him? Then a few weeks later, the other boy "FLED off and fell and went home to Mom." This sounds not like he was just riding by, but suspiciously like someone was causing him to feel like it might be wise to flee, And you know, who'd be most likely to be angry with this boy? That'd be your son, who'd already gotten in trouble over the butt slap incident. This other boy is being portrayed as someone who gets picked on? That means he's not going to be seen as an equally guilty butt slapper or aggressor. If I were on a jury, or listening to this to make a judgment, with a long history of hearing cases and deciding who is most believable in the incident, I'd tend to presume your child had done more than done less from what I'm hearing.

I think it would be very wise to get an attorney. I just don't think you're going to be the one who is most believable if this goes to court. You need to get a local attorney who can hear it from the ground there, can see the people involved, hear the stories and will know more about your chances of coming out ahead on this.

I can see your perspective, for sure. Hence, the reason for this post. Again, the problem I have is that these charges seem to be at an extreme. Criminal sexual conduct for a ha-ha butt-slap? The furthest form of assault because a kid fell off of his bike, no one touched him or chased him?