Help regarding different situation

[muchneededhelp]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I reside in New York.

I've been researching this non-stop, the rights my parents have to visit my children. I've been festering for years on my own upbringing, as well as the behaviors my parents exhibit in front of my children. I've tried nicely to point out their actions, how detrimental and somewhat looney they are, but they become instantly defensive and deny any wrongdoing. I allowed my parents to spend time with my oldest child the most, because I felt she was more equipped to understand that her grandparents aren't like most people. My son has spent maybe 5 nights total at my parents' house, coming home to tell me that he did not have fun, and all sorts of things I don't want my children to see. My other child is too young to even think about leaving there.

My parents have asked for health proxy for my daughter in case "something" happened during the visitation; They've undermined many of my concerns I've had, pretending that I'm making things up. They've asked Dr's personal information about my childrens' health records without my consent, and seem to be trying to take over my role as a parent while they have my child. When I leave, their lifestyle takes over, not the one I want for my daughter. Calm, peaceful, typical childhood. Their language, actions, and behaviors are so severe to the point where I've given up on trying to get them to understand that my children will not be exposed to the things I was as a child. I cannot go into further detail, but I assure you that most parents would not like their children around these as well. I've said things nicely, said things more abruptly, and downright stated my concerns as explicitly as you possibly can. The last time I did this was the last straw. Communication ceased. Not from me, from them. I just wanted them to understand, I'm the parent, I don't want this, stop ignoring this, you have to face things. I never said I would not let them visit, they chose to never to respond. It's been 8 months.

I have 3 children, my oldest from a previous marriage, my daughter. She has probably the most exposure to my parents, since she was a toddler. My ex husband and I have a great relationship for her sake. I recently found out my parents had made contact with my ex-husband, and saw my daughter during his visitation. I immediately told my ex-husband to stay out of this, it was my side of the family, I didn't want any trouble with him. I asked him to not allow my parents to communicate with my daughter, if they want to, they first need to accept my conditions. These are not simple conditions, these are for my daughter's best interest. I'm her parent. They've had their turn to raise children, and I don't like how I was raised. I do things differently. I feel that I don't involve myself in my ex-husbands side of the family anymore, they are for him to decide. He shouldn't be involved in my decisions regarding my side of family.

My ex husband has agreed, but I'm fearful that my child will be put in the middle. That visitations will continue, only to be told "Shhh don't tell mommy!". My current husband and I have our 2 children, and see that the NYS law says that when a family is in tact and both parents agree, that usually the courts will not interfere with our decisions, as well as my son tells me he doesn't like going to their house. They are controlling. There are other factors that I can't divulge. I wish I could. But think of the word abhorrent. I've tried to, for the sake of my relationship with them, my kids, to stay out of it, address my concerns when needed, and still let my kids have a relationship with their grandparents even if we don't see eye to eye. I can't do this any longer. Guilt trips, pain, downright malicious people.

I do not expect my parents to be able to gain visitation on my youngest 2; that I am most certain. We are good, straightforward parents with simple lives. My children are well taken care of, there is no basis for any accusations towards us. Our children are our lives. My children have a wonderful relationship with my husband's mother. She is the true definition of a grandparent, we welcome her wholeheartedly and love how she respects us as parents, loves her grandkids, and would never put their little minds in danger.

Because of my situation with my ex husband, I believe they might sue for visitation if my ex-husband does in fact deny them access like he agreed upon. If this doesn't happen, then visitations will secretly take place, and I'll have to ask my child all sorts of questions I really don't want to. Her welfare I'm trying to salvage while others are ripping apart for their own gains. They are deceitful, going behind my back, telling lies, anything to gain sympathy. I can't imagine what things they might say to my daughter when they visit- and they are that type of people. I am also concerned that although my youngest two don't even miss them, what it would do to them as they get older and see that their older sister receives presents non-stop as they buy her affection if visitation is forced upon us thru court. My family comes first, I do not play favorites and I don't feel that one of my children should be forced to go while the others don't have to because of different fathers.

Sorry, but I wanted to give a clear picture of what's going on. I'd like to know what legal grounds I would have to keep my parents from seeing my daughter without my prior permission, in a situation I so choose. If secret visitations keep up, that is. Would I first have to take my ex-husband to court? Or both my parents and my ex-husband?

If my parents sue for visitation, do I have legal ground for my daughter to deny them? I would call their behaviors, fits, and rages inappropriate at their mildest, and downright detrimental and bordering mental illness at their worst. I don't care if they hate me, but I feel they are doing this more to show they can, to get back at me. They aren't concerned with mending our relationship for the sake of the kids. They want to ruin me it feels like. They know they can access my oldest thru her father, yet haven't tried for any contact with the youngest.

Please, help. I thank you ahead of time, and will provide extra information if necessary. I really don't want to turn to the court system, because if I expose things, their lives might be ruined. I don't want to ruin anyone. I just want to raise my kids, my way.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[mistoffolees]

You really don't need all the drama. I got lost, so maybe you answered this, but what is the custody situation (both legal and physical)? Exactly what does your court order say with respect to custody and visitation?


In general, the parent(s) who has(have) custody have the right to control who the children see. Unless there's evidence of harm to the children, each parent can take the child to see anyone they wish during their time.

For the kids with your present husband, just don't let the kids go see the grandparents. They can try to get a court order otherwise, but they probably won't win.

As for the oldest, if you and your ex both agree to not let the grandparents see the kids, then the grandparents can't see the kids - and they're unlikely to convince a court to let them.

OTOH, if your husband has custodial and/or visitation rights, he can do what he wants with your older daughter.

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I reside in New York.

I've been researching this non-stop, the rights my parents have to visit my children. I've been festering for years on my own upbringing, as well as the behaviors my parents exhibit in front of my children. I've tried nicely to point out their actions, how detrimental and somewhat looney they are, but they become instantly defensive and deny any wrongdoing. I allowed my parents to spend time with my oldest child the most, because I felt she was more equipped to understand that her grandparents aren't like most people. My son has spent maybe 5 nights total at my parents' house, coming home to tell me that he did not have fun, and all sorts of things I don't want my children to see. My other child is too young to even think about leaving there.

My parents have asked for health proxy for my daughter in case "something" happened during the visitation; They've undermined many of my concerns I've had, pretending that I'm making things up. They've asked Dr's personal information about my childrens' health records without my consent, and seem to be trying to take over my role as a parent while they have my child. When I leave, their lifestyle takes over, not the one I want for my daughter. Calm, peaceful, typical childhood. Their language, actions, and behaviors are so severe to the point where I've given up on trying to get them to understand that my children will not be exposed to the things I was as a child. I cannot go into further detail, but I assure you that most parents would not like their children around these as well. I've said things nicely, said things more abruptly, and downright stated my concerns as explicitly as you possibly can. The last time I did this was the last straw. Communication ceased. Not from me, from them. I just wanted them to understand, I'm the parent, I don't want this, stop ignoring this, you have to face things. I never said I would not let them visit, they chose to never to respond. It's been 8 months.

I have 3 children, my oldest from a previous marriage, my daughter. She has probably the most exposure to my parents, since she was a toddler. My ex husband and I have a great relationship for her sake. I recently found out my parents had made contact with my ex-husband, and saw my daughter during his visitation. I immediately told my ex-husband to stay out of this, it was my side of the family, I didn't want any trouble with him. I asked him to not allow my parents to communicate with my daughter, if they want to, they first need to accept my conditions. These are not simple conditions, these are for my daughter's best interest. I'm her parent. They've had their turn to raise children, and I don't like how I was raised. I do things differently. I feel that I don't involve myself in my ex-husbands side of the family anymore, they are for him to decide. He shouldn't be involved in my decisions regarding my side of family.

My ex husband has agreed, but I'm fearful that my child will be put in the middle. That visitations will continue, only to be told "Shhh don't tell mommy!". My current husband and I have our 2 children, and see that the NYS law says that when a family is in tact and both parents agree, that usually the courts will not interfere with our decisions, as well as my son tells me he doesn't like going to their house. They are controlling. There are other factors that I can't divulge. I wish I could. But think of the word abhorrent. I've tried to, for the sake of my relationship with them, my kids, to stay out of it, address my concerns when needed, and still let my kids have a relationship with their grandparents even if we don't see eye to eye. I can't do this any longer. Guilt trips, pain, downright malicious people.

I do not expect my parents to be able to gain visitation on my youngest 2; that I am most certain. We are good, straightforward parents with simple lives. My children are well taken care of, there is no basis for any accusations towards us. Our children are our lives. My children have a wonderful relationship with my husband's mother. She is the true definition of a grandparent, we welcome her wholeheartedly and love how she respects us as parents, loves her grandkids, and would never put their little minds in danger.

Because of my situation with my ex husband, I believe they might sue for visitation if my ex-husband does in fact deny them access like he agreed upon. If this doesn't happen, then visitations will secretly take place, and I'll have to ask my child all sorts of questions I really don't want to. Her welfare I'm trying to salvage while others are ripping apart for their own gains. They are deceitful, going behind my back, telling lies, anything to gain sympathy. I can't imagine what things they might say to my daughter when they visit- and they are that type of people. I am also concerned that although my youngest two don't even miss them, what it would do to them as they get older and see that their older sister receives presents non-stop as they buy her affection if visitation is forced upon us thru court. My family comes first, I do not play favorites and I don't feel that one of my children should be forced to go while the others don't have to because of different fathers.

Sorry, but I wanted to give a clear picture of what's going on. I'd like to know what legal grounds I would have to keep my parents from seeing my daughter without my prior permission, in a situation I so choose. If secret visitations keep up, that is. Would I first have to take my ex-husband to court? Or both my parents and my ex-husband?

If my parents sue for visitation, do I have legal ground for my daughter to deny them? I would call their behaviors, fits, and rages inappropriate at their mildest, and downright detrimental and bordering mental illness at their worst. I don't care if they hate me, but I feel they are doing this more to show they can, to get back at me. They aren't concerned with mending our relationship for the sake of the kids. They want to ruin me it feels like. They know they can access my oldest thru her father, yet haven't tried for any contact with the youngest.

Please, help. I thank you ahead of time, and will provide extra information if necessary. I really don't want to turn to the court system, because if I expose things, their lives might be ruined. I don't want to ruin anyone. I just want to raise my kids, my way.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

First of all, you need to know that what dad does on his own parenting time is his business. You cannot dictate what he does and who he and the child see. Furthermore, you should never put your daughter in the middle of anything ~ especially questioning her about what she does with daddy and who she sees.

Unless your parents have done anything illegal or immoral involving your daughter then you have no grounds whatsoever to tell dad that seeing them is prohibited. If you feel that grandma and grandpa are behaving immorally or illegally, then you should let dad know exactly what is going on and handle the matter accordingly.

 

[liandrajade]

First of all, you need to know that what dad does on his own parenting time is his business. You cannot dictate what he does and who he and the child see. Furthermore, you should never put your daughter in the middle of anything ~ especially questioning her about what she does with daddy and who she sees.

Unless your parents have done anything illegal or immoral involving your daughter then you have no grounds whatsoever to tell dad that seeing them is prohibited. If you feel that grandma and grandpa are behaving immorally or illegally, then you should let dad know exactly what is going on and handle the matter accordingly.

I must disagree slightly. It is HER mother and father that she does not want her children around, his ex mother in law since they are now divorced. I think legally in this case, technically mom is within her rights to tell dad she does not want HER mother around their children. If it were mom saying she did not want the PATERNAL grandparent around, yes then it is NONE of her business. I have to agree with mom on this one.

Quite frankly this sounds extremely similar to my case with the controlling, manipulative grandparent doing things behind the back of the parent. Re-read the section where the grandparent attempted to get private medical information about the children WITHOUT the parents permission.

OP needs to be careful because honestly, NY sucks when it comes to protecting the rights of a parent against a 3rd party, You have me and Rushia that can verify that, we're both in NY and have current court orders, mine which was entered in January 2010.

I have to say again, a parent's right to care, custody and control of their children should be absolute barring some proven unfitness by a court of law. Whether or not the parent is being a jerk by not letting the grandparent see the kid, while MORALLY might be wrong depending on the circumstances, but is still THEIR RIGHT as the parent to do so.

Everyone need to remember that because NY's DRL is vague on that one section that allows for a grandparent to sue for visitation, the "interpretation" of "extraordinary circumstances" can be made out to be whatever the hell the judge "thinks" is extraordinary. See below:

NY DRL, Article 5 Section 72,

72. Special proceeding or habeas corpus to obtain visitation rights
or custody in respect to certain infant grandchildren. 1. Where either
or both of the parents of a minor child, residing within this state, is
or are deceased, or where circumstances show that conditions exist which
equity would see fit to intervene, a grandparent or the grandparents of
such child may apply to the supreme court by commencing a special
proceeding or for a writ of habeas corpus to have such child brought
before such court, or may apply to the family court pursuant to
subdivision (b) of section six hundred fifty-one of the family court
act; and on the return thereof, the court, by order, after due notice to
the parent or any other person or party having the care, custody, and
control of such child, to be given in such manner as the court shall
prescribe, may make such directions as the best interest of the child
may require, for visitation rights for such grandparent or grandparents
in respect to such child.

 

[Antigone*]

I must disagree slightly. It is HER mother and father that she does not want her children around, his ex mother in law since they are now divorced. I think legally in this case, technically mom is within her rights to tell dad she does not want HER mother around their children. If it were mom saying she did not want the PATERNAL grandparent around, yes then it is NONE of her business. I have to agree with mom on this one.

Quite frankly this sounds extremely similar to my case with the controlling, manipulative grandparent doing things behind the back of the parent. Re-read the section where the grandparent attempted to get private medical information about the children WITHOUT the parents permission.

OP needs to be careful because honestly, NY sucks when it comes t protecting the rights of a parent against a 3rd party, You have me and Rushia that can verify that, we're both in NY and have current court orders, mine which was entered in January.

Everyone need to remember that because NY's DRL is vague on that one section that allows for a grandparent to sue for visitation, the "interpretation" of "extraordinary circumstances" can be made out to be whatever the hell the judge "thinks" is extraordinary. See below:

NY DRL, Article 5 Section 72,

72. Special proceeding or habeas corpus to obtain visitation rights
or custody in respect to certain infant grandchildren. 1. Where either
or both of the parents of a minor child, residing within this state, is
or are deceased, or where circumstances show that conditions exist which
equity would see fit to intervene, a grandparent or the grandparents of
such child may apply to the supreme court by commencing a special
proceeding or for a writ of habeas corpus to have such child brought
before such court, or may apply to the family court pursuant to
subdivision (b) of section six hundred fifty-one of the family court
act; and on the return thereof, the court, by order, after due notice to
the parent or any other person or party having the care, custody, and
control of such child, to be given in such manner as the court shall
prescribe, may make such directions as the best interest of the child
may require, for visitation rights for such grandparent or grandparents
in respect to such child.

No it is not familiar to your case, unless you are referring to the drama.

Unless there is a TRO against grandma and grandpa DAD can take his children where ever he feels like ~ and that includes grandma and grandpa's house.

 

[liandrajade]

Unless there is a TRO against grandma and grandpa DAD can take his children where ever he feels like ~ and that includes grandma and grandpa's house.

I will politely disagree again here, it is not the PATERNAL grandparents mom has an issue with, it is her OWN parents. Mom, it would appear is within her rights to ask that these people not associate with the children.

Much like if Dad had an issue with his own mother, and asked mom to please not allow them around because of XYZ concerns, dad is also within his rights to ask that as well. Also, supposedly dad HAS agreed to this and if that information is correct, then he AGREES with mom's concerns.

Where did a parent's right to choose who can and cannot be around depend on being politically correct? The title of "grandparent" does not supercede the parent's rights or should not.

OP can you post what your court orders for custody and visitation with your ex husband? And what did Dad have to say about all this anyway? Have you explained to him why you feel like etc? And you did say he is in agreement with you correct?

 

[milspecgirl]

i disagree. just because they are her parents- that doesnt mean that he cant take the child to see them if he wants, on his time.

My husband has a much better relationship with his daughter's maternal grandma than the mom does. He allows her to go over there on his time all the time. And, if mom and grandma got in a fight and mom didn't want grandma around the child- dad would take that into consideration, but it would still be his choice as to whether to continue allowing daughter over there on his time (unless there was a court order).

It is up to dad to decide who the child is around on his time and whether he feels mom has a valid concern.

 

[mistoffolees]

I will politely disagree again here, it is not the PATERNAL grandparents mom has an issue with, it is her OWN parents. Mom, it would appear is within her rights to ask that these people not associate with the children.

Much like if Dad had an issue with his own mother, and asked mom to please not allow them around because of XYZ concerns, dad is also within his rights to ask that as well. Also, supposedly dad HAS agreed to this and if that information is correct, then he AGREES with mom's concerns.

Where did a parent's right to choose who can and cannot be around depend on being politically correct? The title of "grandparent" does not supercede the parent's rights or should not.

Mom is entirely within her rights to ask that these people not be around her children.

Dad is entirely within his rights to ignore her during his court-ordered visitation time.

Your post is irrelevant. It says that the grandparents can't get visitation. So what? No one said that they could. Instead, Dad may offer to bring the children to them on his time - which is entirely within his rights.

BOTH parents have the rights to determine where to spend their time when the kids are with them.

Frankly, I think Mom's getting overly worried. First, as long as Dad is with the child when she's at Gma's house, nothing is likely to happen. More importantly, I suspect that Dad's going to get tired of it before too long - unless Mom makes it into a battle and he does it out of spite.

 

[milspecgirl]

dad may have agreed to go along with mom so as not to make her mad and rock the boat. However, he may not agree with mom's feelings towards her parents and may not want to get involved in a GPV case, especially if he doesn't see things the same way mom does.

Mom's right to decide who the child is around DOES NOT negate dad's right to decide who the child is around on his time, even if it IS her parents.

 

[BL]

1 ) Advise all medical-school and any other agencies NOT to allow these grandparents any informations or discussions about the children .

We had that problem regarding a school.

It was quickly rectified.

2 ) NY does allow for the GP's to file for visitations , and most cases would at least be heard .

A ) Where there were frequent and meaningful visitations prior to the petition , or B ) in extenuating circumstances .

I don't see either here , but as stated the matter could be heard .

3 ) Dad is allowed to take the child to the grands as he pleases on his time .

To answer your questions.

If the visitations are causing emotional/mental harm to the children , as their negative influences start causing defiant behavior at home ,etc . you would need to petition the court -v- dad to attempt a remedy .

You may need documentation from a professional ( as in eval.of the child/counseling ).


If visitations were awarded to the grands ( and again I say it's doubtful in your case ) you could have language incorporated into the orders of no derogatory talk in front of or to the children , and any other clauses against any negativity that would cause the child emotional harm .

I'm also a NY'ker that has seen the insides of Family Court and with Family Law Lawyers .

 

[Rushia]

OP, please send me a pm on exactly where in NY you are in. Different areas tend to rule differently. Since you got such a variance on opinions....I concur that if dad wants to take the child to your parents, you cannot dictate that. Since Liandra posted that statute you need to study that. Understand that an intact family can be sued and will not save you from a court order. Your case sound very similar to mine. The gps in my case also attempted to get medical records and attempted to get the court to order those to them. They failed on that account. Password protect all medicals so that they KNOW it is you talking to them.

 

[muchneededhelp]

To answer your questions; My ex and I share legal joint custody with myself being sole physical with his visitations every other weekend. Our arrangement is not uncivil- we do not hold to the words of the order, we work very well with eachother if weekends are inconvenient. Although my ex husband has joint legal, he has no involvement in schooling, medical, and other areas because he (I assume) trusts me enough to handle it.

I would classify their behavior as detrimental to the child; they do not treat my daughter bad, they treat all around them bad. Their behaviors I don't want my children to learn.

And sorry for the long, dramatic post to all who had issue. I wanted to lay things out instead of people asking later.

I do not believe my daughter should be denied her grandparents- everyone (I believe) is in agreement that modifications should be made during their time with her. I tried to do this, they refused to listen and cut off all contact and used different venues of contact behind my back, despite my wishes.

My ex might not agree with me, but I do believe he isn't willing to "rock the boat". He hardly ever lets our daughter see his parents as well, and does not entrust them either. I've respected his views all these years and would not go behind his back as well. We co-parent very well.

He has a right to ignore my requests. I know this. I just didn't know what to pursue if this kept up, where to go.

Thank you for all responses.

 

[mistoffolees]

OP, please send me a pm on exactly where in NY you are in. Different areas tend to rule differently. Since you got such a variance on opinions....I concur that if dad wants to take the child to your parents, you cannot dictate that. Since Liandra posted that statute you need to study that. Understand that an intact family can be sued and will not save you from a court order. Your case sound very similar to mine. The gps in my case also attempted to get medical records and attempted to get the court to order those to them. They failed on that account. Password protect all medicals so that they KNOW it is you talking to them.

The statute that Liandra posted is irrelevant. It applies if the grandparents are asking for visitation - which is not the case here.

What's happening is that Dad wants to take the kids to see Grandparents. That has absolutely nothing to do with the law Liandra posted. Unless there's some type of court order prohibiting it, Dad can take the kids to see whoever he wants.

 

[BL]

The statute that Liandra posted is irrelevant. It applies if the grandparents are asking for visitation - which is not the case here.

What's happening is that Dad wants to take the kids to see Grandparents. That has absolutely nothing to do with the law Liandra posted. Unless there's some type of court order prohibiting it, Dad can take the kids to see whoever he wants.

Perhaps you missed this in the OP's post.

If my parents sue for visitation, do I have legal ground for my daughter to deny them?

 

[mistoffolees]

Perhaps you missed this in the OP's post. {If my parents sue for visitation, do I have legal ground for my daughter to deny them?}

That part was answered very early on. Given the circumstances, grandparents have close to zero chance to get court-ordered visitation.

They CAN, however see the child any time that Dad wants to let them.