Defamation and Libel on DeviantArt

[ArtDefender]

I currently live in NH, USA.

So, I hope someone can help me out on this issue. I apologize if this is a bit long, but this issue has been going on for a while now...

So, back in 2012 (almost exactly 6 years ago), I began dating my current fiance. I was 19 and she was 15 1/2. This was a LONG DISTANCE relationship (AL to NH). We talked daily, no sexual activity of course. Never met in person until SHE was 19 years old and I was 24.

Fast forward to today, we have lived together for roughly 2 years and have been engaged for 8 months.

The real issue is this... we both have accounts on DeviantArt, an art sharing website where an artist could make a living off commissioning art. My fiance has made money on the website while I haven't quite gotten that much experience with drawing yet, but I hope to someday. On this website, there is a user (and many followers of this user) who are defaming myself, my fiance and a friend of my fiance's as "pedophiles" or "pedophile supporters". More specifically, I have been called a "pedophile and sexual predator" because of my fiance and our age gap. They have called us out on several online posts and have made baseless claims about me. I have NEVER groomed or preyed on anyone. My fiance was the one who wanted the relationship originally and no sexual activity ever occurred until she moved in with me when she was 19. We never sent questionable or explicit pictures to each other during the long distance relationship. It was essentially a VERY strong friendship until she had the opportunity to move out (Basically, I have never had questionable thoughts about any other person or child. I simply cared for my fiance and wanted her in my life forever. I am incredibly dedicated and loyal to her and only her). This libel and harassment has gone so far that followers of this user have begun sending harassing messages to us. This person has now posted the full legal name of my fiance online, along with her age and various account names of various other websites online in the "callout post". These lies are preventing my fiance from getting as many commissions and it will/has prevented me from getting any sort of following as well.

I have tried ignoring this person AND sending a harassment claim to DeviantArt about this user. The report was 6 pages long, typed, and broke down everything they have done with proof and links. I even broke down the Code of Conduct for the website, where libel and harassment are mentioned as being things they do not tolerate. However, despite all the proof I provided, they took no action against the user.

I don't know what else to do in order to go after this person who is defaming us... We know the the person defaming us lives in Canada, so this adds and extra layer of confusion to the mess.

This may sound like a stupid argument online, but it is affecting income for my fiance, as well as breaching her privacy with the latest posts of her full name, age and other account names. This is essentially blacklisting her everywhere this users info spreads. I just want the info removed and this user to be punished in some way and is never allowed to make these "callout posts" again. DeviantArt clearly isn't listening to their users, because this person has been reported multiple times by many different people about the same issue...

Does anyone who reads this have any advice for my fiance and I in order to stop this user from defaming us? Thank you very much in advance for your help!

If you need any clarification, please let me know!

 

[Zigner]

I'm not commenting on your question, rather, I'm correcting your use of terms.

Slander is verbal defamation an libel is written defamation.

 

[ArtDefender]

I'm not commenting on your question, rather, I'm correcting your use of terms.

Slander is verbal defamation an libel is written defamation.

Okay, fair enough. I changed the areas of the original post where I mentioned slander! Thank you!

 

[quincy]

I currently live in NH, USA.

So, I hope someone can help me out on this issue. I apologize if this is a bit long, but this issue has been going on for a while now...

So, back in 2012 (almost exactly 6 years ago), I began dating my current fiance. I was 19 and she was 15 1/2. This was a LONG DISTANCE relationship (AL to NH). We talked daily, no sexual activity of course. Never met in person until SHE was 19 years old and I was 24.

Fast forward to today, we have lived together for roughly 2 years and have been engaged for 8 months.

The real issue is this... we both have accounts on DeviantArt, an art sharing website where an artist could make a living off commissioning art. My fiance has made money on the website while I haven't quite gotten that much experience with drawing yet, but I hope to someday. On this website, there is a user (and many followers of this user) who are defaming myself, my fiance and a friend of my fiance's as "pedophiles" or "pedophile supporters". More specifically, I have been called a "pedophile and sexual predator" because of my fiance and our age gap. They have called us out on several online posts and have made baseless claims about me. I have NEVER groomed or preyed on anyone. My fiance was the one who wanted the relationship originally and no sexual activity ever occurred until she moved in with me when she was 19. We never sent questionable or explicit pictures to each other during the long distance relationship. It was essentially a VERY strong friendship until she had the opportunity to move out (Basically, I have never had questionable thoughts about any other person or child. I simply cared for my fiance and wanted her in my life forever. I am incredibly dedicated and loyal to her and only her). This libel and harassment has gone so far that followers of this user have begun sending harassing messages to us. This person has now posted the full legal name of my fiance online, along with her age and various account names of various other websites online in the "callout post". These lies are preventing my fiance from getting as many commissions and it will/has prevented me from getting any sort of following as well.

I have tried ignoring this person AND sending a harassment claim to DeviantArt about this user. The report was 6 pages long, typed, and broke down everything they have done with proof and links. I even broke down the Code of Conduct for the website, where libel and harassment are mentioned as being things they do not tolerate. However, despite all the proof I provided, they took no action against the user.

I don't know what else to do in order to go after this person who is defaming us... We know the the person defaming us lives in Canada, so this adds and extra layer of confusion to the mess.

This may sound like a stupid argument online, but it is affecting income for my fiance, as well as breaching her privacy with the latest posts of her full name, age and other account names. This is essentially blacklisting her everywhere this users info spreads. I just want the info removed and this user to be punished in some way and is never allowed to make these "callout posts" again. DeviantArt clearly isn't listening to their users, because this person has been reported multiple times by many different people about the same issue...

Does anyone who reads this have any advice for my fiance and I in order to stop this user from defaming us? Thank you very much in advance for your help!

If you need any clarification, please let me know!

You have a few problems with the defamatory content you find on DeviantArt.

DeviantArt does not monitor the content on its site and it is not responsible for any libelous statements made by its members. Without a court order to do so, content remains as is unless DeviantArt chooses on its own to remove published material. Although contacting DA can make DA aware of objectionable content, therefore, contact by you alone is not apt to do much. And DeviantArt is known for being slow in responding to messages about website content, even when there are claims of copyright infringement.

What you will need is a court order.

In order to get a court order, you need to file a defamation lawsuit against the defamer and present to the court a prima facie case of defamation. In other words, you must show the court that your defamation claim can survive a motion to dismiss. Do you know the real identity of the defamer? If not, you would file suit against "John Doe" and subpoena DeviantArt for Doe's account information, so you can proceed in your suit against an identified defendant.

You say your defamer resides in Canada so Canadian defamation laws will apply. You can consult with a New Hampshire defamation lawyer but you will probably find that any legal action pursued against the defamer must be pursued in his province of Canada. You will therefore need a consultation with a Canadian defamation lawyer, as well.

Do you know WHY this particular member is publishing falsehoods about you? Sometimes discovering the reason behind the postings can halt their flow.

 

[ArtDefender]

You have a few problems with the defamatory content you find on DeviantArt.

DeviantArt does not monitor the content on its site and it is not responsible for any libelous statements made by its members. Without a court order to do so, content remains as is unless DeviantArt chooses on its own to remove published material. Although contacting DA can make DA aware of objectionable content, therefore, contact by you alone is not apt to do much. And DeviantArt is known for being slow in responding to messages about website content, even when there are claims of copyright infringement.

What you will need is a court order.

In order to get a court order, you need to file a defamation lawsuit against the defamer and present to the court a prima facie case of defamation. In other words, you must show the court that your defamation claim can survive a motion to dismiss. Do you know the real identity of the defamer? If not, you would file suit against "John Doe" and subpoena DeviantArt for Doe's account information, so you can proceed in your suit against an identified defendant.

You say your defamer resides in Canada so Canadian defamation laws will apply. You can consult with a New Hampshire defamation lawyer but you will probably find that any legal action pursued against the defamer must be pursued in his province of Canada. You will therefore need a consultation with a Canadian defamation lawyer, as well.

Do you know WHY this particular member is publishing falsehoods about you? Sometimes discovering the reason behind the postings can halt their flow.

First of all, thank you so much for your very informed and gracious reply!

I figured DeviantArt wasn't going to be forcibly held to remove the comments mentioned. However, they are clearly not adhering to and defending their own Code of Conduct, so I wondered if something could be done to stop issues like this from happening in the future with other users.

I do know the defamer's name and address. The mother of the defamer owns a business in which the address is fairly easy to find online. The defamer has posted online (not on DeviantArt) the things needed to find the business name and website. Finding the website which gives the address was really easy to find, knowing the info they gave publicly. I have not made this info even more public out of respect, though. However, considering a legal case in the future, I made an attempt to find it using only the info they gave. They posted their own name in multiple places online, or what I think their real name is anyway.

As for WHY the person is doing this, I am honestly unsure. I know they were once in a relationship with someone older who took advantage of them. It seems like they now think all relationships that have age gaps WILL run the same way and end up in the "minor" getting hurt. This is clearly not the case. They are painting every relationship with an age gap beyond a year with the same broad brush due to their experience. That is the only guess I could make. They are essentially standing up to "protect the minors" by shaming all the older individuals. This has gone so far that anyone who "ships" (supports the FICTIONAL relationship) between two characters in a fictional young adult book series, that also has any sort of age gap, are also pedophiles because they "support child abuse, child porn and/or pedophilia". It is honestly very concerning that these people can't seem to, at least to me, differentiate between reality and fiction. They take something fictional and make it an issue in reality that are ruining the reputations of very innocent people. My fiance and I are afraid that if our real names are linked to this "callout list" that paints us as pedophiles, that it will hurt our chances to get jobs or anything where a background check or search is done online. My fiance also wishes to go to college in the future and I fear this will make her out to be something she clearly isn't.

I have made some very long posts on DeviantArt trying to explain why their logic is not really coherent or fair at all as well as defend myself, my fiance and all other people getting called these things and I get further ridiculed for it. The posts explains only facts and contain no defamation in return. I made no insults or false claims to the best of my knowledge.

I am reaching a result where all I can do is try to do something legally, but money is an obvious worry about trying to defend ourselves from this...

 

[quincy]

First of all, thank you so much for your very informed and gracious reply!

I figured DeviantArt wasn't going to be forcibly held to remove the comments mentioned. However, they are clearly not adhering to and defending their own Code of Conduct, so I wondered if something could be done to stop issues like this from happening in the future with other users.

I do know the defamer's name and address. The mother of the defamer owns a business in which the address is fairly easy to find online. The defamer has posted online (not on DeviantArt) the things needed to find the business name and website. Finding the website which gives the address was really easy to find, knowing the info they gave publicly. I have not made this info even more public out of respect, though. However, considering a legal case in the future, I made an attempt to find it using only the info they gave. They posted their own name in multiple places online, or what I think their real name is anyway.

As for WHY the person is doing this, I am honestly unsure. I know they were once in a relationship with someone older who took advantage of them. It seems like they now think all relationships that have age gaps WILL run the same way and end up in the "minor" getting hurt. This is clearly not the case. They are painting every relationship with an age gap beyond a year with the same broad brush due to their experience. That is the only guess I could make. They are essentially standing up to "protect the minors" by shaming all the older individuals. This has gone so far that anyone who "ships" (supports the FICTIONAL relationship) between two characters in a fictional young adult book series, that also has any sort of age gap, are also pedophiles because they "support child abuse, child porn and/or pedophilia". It is honestly very concerning that these people can't seem to, at least to me, differentiate between reality and fiction. They take something fictional and make it an issue in reality that are ruining the reputations of very innocent people. My fiance and I are afraid that if our real names are linked to this "callout list" that paints us as pedophiles, that it will hurt our chances to get jobs or anything where a background check or search is done online. My fiance also wishes to go to college in the future and I fear this will make her out to be something she clearly isn't.

I have made some very long posts on DeviantArt trying to explain why their logic is not really coherent or fair at all as well as defend myself, my fiance and all other people getting called these things and I get further ridiculed for it. The posts explains only facts and contain no defamation in return. I made no insults or false claims to the best of my knowledge.

I am reaching a result where all I can do is try to do something legally, but money is an obvious worry about trying to defend ourselves from this...

You cannot force a website to adhere to their own terms and conditions of use. They are free to pick and choose what they want to enforce.

If you know the identity of the one defaming you, you have an advantage that many who experience online defamation do not have.

You can start with a cease and desist letter sent to the Canadian fellow, advising him that he should remove all defamatory content from its places online and cease posting additional falsehoods about you. The letter can ask for a public retraction and apology. The letter can further advise that legal action is being seriously considered and may be pursued if your demands are not met.

You can send your own letter but cease and desist letters are more effective coming from an attorney (especially one local to the defamer) because the recipient of an attorney letter knows you have spoken with an attorney, making the recipient believe the threat of legal action is likely to be carried out. An attorney letter is more intimidating.

Whether the letter comes from you or an attorney, however, it has no force of law behind it. Your defamer can ignore the letter and its demands and you will then have to decide if you want to move ahead with a lawsuit. This decision must be made fairly quickly as the statute of limitations for defamation claims in some Canadian provinces is quite short (as short as 6 months) which contrasts with the three year statute of limitations in New Hampshire.

If you have evidence of the defamation and demonstrable injury to your reputation, you might want to speak to a defamation lawyer in your area first. You will eventually want to contact a Canadian lawyer if you decide to take legal action against the guy.

Good luck.

 

[HRZ]

One of my ex acquaintances ( not a friend ) engaged is similar bizarre threats..until he got a call that in effect said said I know who you are and where you are and where you work ..and made no threat...but his cover was blown...and he stopped that particular stupid game .

 

[quincy]

One of my ex acquaintances ( not a friend ) engaged is similar bizarre threats..until he got a call that in effect said said I know who you are and where you are and where you work ..and made no threat...but his cover was blown...and he stopped that particular stupid game .

I do not recommend making a phone call of the sort received by your friend. I also do not recommend making public comments about the Canadian fellow unless or until a suit is filed.

 

[ArtDefender]

I do not recommend making a phone call of the sort received by your friend. I also do not recommend making public comments about the Canadian fellow unless or until a suit is filed.

Thank you very much. I don't want to do a whole legal proceeding, but a cease and desist is an action I would like to do. I don't plan to make a phone call. That seems far too.... creepy for my liking right now. I just want to scare them to stop before a REAL issue is made of it. They have threatened to call the cops on me, said they already had, and nothing ever happened so...

Do many defamation lawyers/attorneys do these sorts of things over the internet? Or is in-person contact needed? Like I mentioned, cost is a huge factor to getting this person to stop and flying/travelling to Canada is something I really don't want to do right now because of expenses.

Do you know any sort of ballpark pricepoint for a cease and desist letter to be made itself?

Thanks again for all the amazing help and guidance!

 

[Zigner]

You'll need to contact Canadian attorneys. One other thing to keep in mind is that this person probably knows there's nothing you can really do. I suspect that your cease & desist letter may actually cause an increase in activity.

 

[quincy]

Thank you very much. I don't want to do a whole legal proceeding, but a cease and desist is an action I would like to do. I don't plan to make a phone call. That seems far too.... creepy for my liking right now. I just want to scare them to stop before a REAL issue is made of it. They have threatened to call the cops on me, said they already had, and nothing ever happened so...

Do many defamation lawyers/attorneys do these sorts of things over the internet? Or is in-person contact needed? Like I mentioned, cost is a huge factor to getting this person to stop and flying/travelling to Canada is something I really don't want to do right now because of expenses.

Do you know any sort of ballpark pricepoint for a cease and desist letter to be made itself?

Thanks again for all the amazing help and guidance!

Where in Canada does the guy live?

You can consult with an attorney in New Hampshire who specializes in defamation law. Most will be comfortably familiar with Internet defamation.

Prices vary substantially. You can call several attorneys in your area and ask their rates. After a review of the online defamatory statements, the context, the damages you have suffered, and all other relevant facts, the attorney can draft for you a cease and desist letter with little problem. This should not be too costly. Again, however, it is best if an attorney local to your defamer handles the matter but I understand that travel cost is an issue.

Good luck.

 

[ArtDefender]

Where in Canada does the guy live?

You can consult with an attorney in New Hampshire who specializes in defamation law. Most will be comfortably familiar with Internet defamation.

Prices vary substantially. You can call several attorneys in your area and ask their rates. After a review of the online defamatory statements, the context, the damages you have suffered, and all other relevant facts, the attorney can draft for you a cease and desist letter with little problem. This should not be too costly. Again, however, it is best if an attorney local to your defamer handles the matter but I understand that travel cost is an issue.

Good luck.

They live in Ontario. There is a defamation lawyer in my town that I could more easily visit about the issue. But I would rather consult one closer to the defamer, as per your suggestion for increased effectiveness. If the lawyer would write the cease and desist, would he need to feel that we have a good case against the defamer should it proceed farther? I would like to hope that the assumption could be there when sending the letter to further pressure them to stop before it becomes costly for everyone.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[quincy]

They live in Ontario. There is a defamation lawyer in my town that I could more easily visit about the issue. But I would rather consult one closer to the defamer, as per your suggestion for increased effectiveness. If the lawyer would write the cease and desist, would he need to feel that we have a good case against the defamer should it proceed farther? I would like to hope that the assumption could be there when sending the letter to further pressure them to stop before it becomes costly for everyone.

Thanks again for all the help!

You can first consult with the New Hampshire attorney and the New Hampshire attorney can contact a lawyer in Ontario for you if the attorney feels as I do that the cease and desist letter will be more effective coming from a lawyer local to your defamer.

The defamation lawyer you see should give you an idea of how strong a case he thinks you have and whether it is worth the cost of pursuing past the cease and desist stage. But, with luck, upon receipt of the C&D your defamer will be intimidated into removing the defamatory statements and will refrain from posting about you again.

Good luck.