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Do I need to get a resurvey?

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ikeroberts

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
I own a 6 acre lot in a rural subdivision. The lots were platted from a farm in the mid-90's, so we are not talking about property lines going back a hundred years. The lot adjacent to mine was never developed, but recently it was bought by a gentleman who intends to build on it. The first thing he did was clear off about a third of his lot fronting the road. He also cleared off an area of my lot, about 4,000 square feet that adjoins his lot, with a Bobcat. I had deliberately allowed this area to 'go wild' since it was a low lying area that I wanted to maintain as a wetland and wildlife habitat, and as protection for the watershed that feeds into my pond. So appearance-wise, the overgrown area on my lot looked like the overgrowth of brush on his lot. Now it's a muddy rutted mess.

I talked to the workers and they said he thought the property line was marked by a small culvert, and he told them to clear all of the overgrowth. The lines are defined by the utility pole about 20 feet away. The new owner should have known this. He has a title which should show approximately where the lines are. The county has a website which shows the property line going through the utility poles. As the workers cleared back from the road, they cleared an ever widening swath of my property, up to 50 feet wide. I was able to locate the surveyor's pin at one end of the boundary, but not the pin near the road. I realize that, without a full survey, the lines can be off by a few feet, but his people were over the line by far more than that. Other actions that this person has taken tell me that he doesn't want to be bothered by things like property rights of his neighbors or zoning laws.

I sent him a letter with a copy of the county satellite map enclosed, informed him that I'm not seeking damages at the time, but would pursue any legal remedy if he trespasses again. I probably should have called the sheriff as soon as I found the damage that was done, but at least I took some pictures. I have a high degree of certainty of the location of the lines within a foot or so, but can't know exactly without a new survey. In the meantime I put up a temporary fence about two feet back of where I believe the lines are. Should I get the line marked by a licensed surveyor? If he starts clearing any more of my property, should I call the sheriff?
 


HRZ

Senior Member
I might check your state laws as to notice and posting re no trespassing ..and follow same first

BUT what did neighbor say about his contractors mistake ?

I'd be real careful about not putting a fence back inside my property line lest it look like that is new line ..it might be smarter to run it down the supposed correct line ..with proper permits and attention to Codes of course ,

THen again if neighbors are friendly , a simple red tape line might reduce future innocent errors by landscape crews
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
I own a 6 acre lot in a rural subdivision. The lots were platted from a farm in the mid-90's, so we are not talking about property lines going back a hundred years. The lot adjacent to mine was never developed, but recently it was bought by a gentleman who intends to build on it. The first thing he did was clear off about a third of his lot fronting the road. He also cleared off an area of my lot, about 4,000 square feet that adjoins his lot, with a Bobcat. I had deliberately allowed this area to 'go wild' since it was a low lying area that I wanted to maintain as a wetland and wildlife habitat, and as protection for the watershed that feeds into my pond. So appearance-wise, the overgrown area on my lot looked like the overgrowth of brush on his lot. Now it's a muddy rutted mess.

I talked to the workers and they said he thought the property line was marked by a small culvert, and he told them to clear all of the overgrowth. The lines are defined by the utility pole about 20 feet away. The new owner should have known this. He has a title which should show approximately where the lines are. The county has a website which shows the property line going through the utility poles. As the workers cleared back from the road, they cleared an ever widening swath of my property, up to 50 feet wide. I was able to locate the surveyor's pin at one end of the boundary, but not the pin near the road. I realize that, without a full survey, the lines can be off by a few feet, but his people were over the line by far more than that. Other actions that this person has taken tell me that he doesn't want to be bothered by things like property rights of his neighbors or zoning laws.

I sent him a letter with a copy of the county satellite map enclosed, informed him that I'm not seeking damages at the time, but would pursue any legal remedy if he trespasses again. I probably should have called the sheriff as soon as I found the damage that was done, but at least I took some pictures. I have a high degree of certainty of the location of the lines within a foot or so, but can't know exactly without a new survey. In the meantime I put up a temporary fence about two feet back of where I believe the lines are. Should I get the line marked by a licensed surveyor? If he starts clearing any more of my property, should I call the sheriff?
I thought that I had responded to this before, but I will do so again. Yes, it would likely be in your best interest to get a survey done.

If the contractor goes over the line again, particularly to the extent previously, then a call to the police might also be in order. They might not do much, they might call it a civil matter, but it might make the contractor think twice about what he is doing, even if the landowner is stubborn.
 

ikeroberts

Junior Member
I might check your state laws as to notice and posting re no trespassing ..and follow same first

BUT what did neighbor say about his contractors mistake ?

I'd be real careful about not putting a fence back inside my property line lest it look like that is new line ..it might be smarter to run it down the supposed correct line ..with proper permits and attention to Codes of course ,

THen again if neighbors are friendly , a simple red tape line might reduce future innocent errors by landscape crews
HRZ: 1) It's not the contractor's mistake. The owner directed them to cut the growth on my property. They apologized when I talked to them. And it's not a simple mistake. Anyone who buys property should feel an obligation to establish at least the proximate location of property lines. Going onto someone else's property and cutting everything down with heavy equipment is not just a mistake, it's negligence, although that may not be the correct legal term.

2) The owner does not live there and probably won't. He intends to put in 3 mobile homes and probably rent them, a violation of several zoning laws. At this time the county has stopped him until a hearing to get a zoning variance is held (another matter, yes).

3) I haven't talked to the owner, and can't because he is deaf. I got his address from the county and sent him a letter telling him that I will sue if he crosses into my property and clears any more of it.

4) The fence is temporary, just some fence poles hammered in with yellow caution tape stretched between them, something to let him know that this is not his property. His trespass into my property was so egregious (about 50 feet at the widest point) that any barrier is better than nothing. When the ground thaws I'll think about getting a more permanent fence close to the line.
 
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HRZ

Senior Member
YOu might better concentrate on a good land use lawyer to fight a trailer park . The county may not carry too much water on you our behalf even f the codes disallow it.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
If all these homes in your area use on site sewage treatment aka septic systems and on site well water then you should know the exact details of your county zoning such as how many housing units can be on one lot, how many acres for on site septic systems are needed per home, how far from lot lines must all homes , garages, accessary buildings, septic systems be from a lot line and lastly your states definition of a mobile home park -community. Like where I live four mobile -manufactured homes is defined by the state as a mobile home community and legally treated as such.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
ANd one of my location is very clear EACH dwelling unit must have separate septic and separate water ...check your location rules !
 

ikeroberts

Junior Member
If all these homes in your area use on site sewage treatment aka septic systems and on site well water then you should know the exact details of your county zoning such as how many housing units can be on one lot, how many acres for on site septic systems are needed per home, how far from lot lines must all homes , garages, accessary buildings, septic systems be from a lot line and lastly your states definition of a mobile home park -community. Like where I live four mobile -manufactured homes is defined by the state as a mobile home community and legally treated as such.
Yes the zoning rules are clear - only one dwelling per lot, and a mobile home dwelling must be on a permanent foundation. The county usually grants a variance only for a relative, say an older parent who needs some care. He cleared just the front half of the property and put in driveways. It looks like he intends to put all three trailers in that area, about one acre per trailer. He is claiming that he is deaf and needs more units for family members who assist him. Total BS. He has a newer 4 bedroom ranch house in the next county and is not going to move into a trailer. The county will never allow that many septics either. This is someone who believes he can run roughshod over everyone in the neighborhood, with no regard for property lines or zoning.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
I get your view view...but use a lawyer to ice it BEFORE it gets blessed in any official manner . BS does not win the day.

BTW it's generally not a proper reason to grant a variance for problems created by the applicant ...lots of small stuff may slide by if unopposed...but to me, trailer park next door is not small stuff.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Yes the zoning rules are clear - only one dwelling per lot, and a mobile home dwelling must be on a permanent foundation. The county usually grants a variance only for a relative, say an older parent who needs some care. He cleared just the front half of the property and put in driveways. It looks like he intends to put all three trailers in that area, about one acre per trailer. He is claiming that he is deaf and needs more units for family members who assist him. Total BS. He has a newer 4 bedroom ranch house in the next county and is not going to move into a trailer. The county will never allow that many septics either. This is someone who believes he can run roughshod over everyone in the neighborhood, with no regard for property lines or zoning.
On behalf of all the deaf people I've known, how offensive!

However, on the up side, communicate with this [annoying person] completely in writing.

I suspect that putting in driveways also requires permits, especially more than one on a lot. If you catch these things early enough, stop work orders can be issued.

As "forgiveness is easier to get than permission", raise a stink about each and every thing.

By the way, when he cleared out that piece of your property, where did the wood go?
 

ikeroberts

Junior Member
On behalf of all the deaf people I've known, how offensive!

However, on the up side, communicate with this [annoying person] completely in writing.

I suspect that putting in driveways also requires permits, especially more than one on a lot. If you catch these things early enough, stop work orders can be issued.

As "forgiveness is easier to get than permission", raise a stink about each and every thing.

By the way, when he cleared out that piece of your property, where did the wood go?
Red: Let me clarify because my comment was poorly written. Most of the zoning variances granted by the county to subdivide a lot are so family members can live nearby. This man is claiming that he needs a variance because he is partially deaf and needs a family member living in another trailer. I don't believe that he has any intention of living here because he already owns a 4 bedroom house in a town about 40 miles away, on a large lot, in a nice neighborhood. I don't think the driveways required permits. Zoning enforcement told me that as soon as he starts digging to give them a call. As for the wood, these were small trees and brush. They pushed it all together in piles and burned it. And yes, I plan to raise a stink about everything. Every neighbor in the association plans to go to the hearing and oppose any variance.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Red: Let me clarify because my comment was poorly written. Most of the zoning variances granted by the county to subdivide a lot are so family members can live nearby. This man is claiming that he needs a variance because he is partially deaf and needs a family member living in another trailer.
And *I* am saying that the majority of the deaf community would be offended at the idea that deafness would require such care of an otherwise able-bodied adult.

It is not a reasonable excuse for a variance.

I don't believe that he has any intention of living here because he already owns a 4 bedroom house in a town about 40 miles away, on a large lot, in a nice neighborhood. I don't think the driveways required permits. Zoning enforcement told me that as soon as he starts digging to give them a call. As for the wood, these were small trees and brush. They pushed it all together in piles and burned it. And yes, I plan to raise a stink about everything. Every neighbor in the association plans to go to the hearing and oppose any variance.
Good.

I think it would be reasonable for you to request that he restore your property.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
Read the relevant codes and get an objection to each and every relevant point into record ..just in case...you cannot appeal on a point you failed to raise up front...so they tell me. .

I would bend over backwards NOT to make any handicap mention in anything ..and while having family handy is a great human point I have my doubts about it being a legally sound point for a variance.( but I have been at a zoning hearing when exactly such human factors carried the night...and it was a complete crock , a legal excuse to convent moms home a single to a double ..but the applicant used the best local land use attorney around ..and I bet the bill was very very reasonable )

Packing the hearing with articulate protesters who testify may help..

With care, some of the overstepping by landscapers and driveways might impeach applicants credibility .

PS I do not know your sequence of hearings and appeals ...but I strongly suggest that paid counsel skilled at land use matters is well worth an investment ...and locally some of this stuff darn well gets discussed before the meeting is ever held....and an good local land use attorney probably knows well the unofficial network .
 

ikeroberts

Junior Member
Read the relevant codes and get an objection to each and every relevant point into record ..just in case...you cannot appeal on a point you failed to raise up front...so they tell me. .

I would bend over backwards NOT to make any handicap mention in anything ..and while having family handy is a great human point I have my doubts about it being a legally sound point for a variance.( but I have been at a zoning hearing when exactly such human factors carried the night...and it was a complete crock , a legal excuse to convent moms home a single to a double ..but the applicant used the best local land use attorney around ..and I bet the bill was very very reasonable )

Packing the hearing with articulate protesters who testify may help..

With care, some of the overstepping by landscapers and driveways might impeach applicants credibility .

PS I do not know your sequence of hearings and appeals ...but I strongly suggest that paid counsel skilled at land use matters is well worth an investment ...and locally some of this stuff darn well gets discussed before the meeting is ever held....and an good local land use attorney probably knows well the unofficial network .
Thanks, HRZ. No I won't make any mention of his handicap, but I will ask him to declare that he intends to live there, and why he would move out of a house that is large enough to house other family members. I would love to make a power point presentation and put it on a thumb drive, but I doubt if the hearing room has the facilities for that. Wouldn't hurt to give county a call and ask though.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
What he intends to do has very limited legal weight ....and about zero carry thru leverage for you..I get your position and I am willing to assume he is exploiting his handicap.to get what many think is unjustified variance .HOWEVER I give you personally very low odds to discredit him , impeach him or trap him in outright lies ...use a pro to do pro work !!! Especially when dealing with sensitive situations !
 

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