Driveway Encroachment

[tgibson]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

I live at my grandmothers house, and have been considering purchasing it for years. A major deterrent for me is the driveway situation. The house next door was formally owned by my grandpas parents for nearly 65 years, they had a lot of land so he built his house on their land and divided the property. 20 or 30 years ago he had his drive re done and put in a turn around at the top of the drive that encroached on his mothers property. No big deal back then...the road has since become busy 4 land through way and the right of way extends the full width of the driveway, id guess some 30ft! The neighboring property had a circular drive put in around roughly the same time, and the new owner decided he didn't like it and ripped it out and put in a standard drive. To do this his cement crews used our driveway instead of the busy road. I would have been fine with this had it not blocked my access to go to work. I complained to the workers but they didn't feel like moving, so I had to drive through the front lawn to leave. This really didn't sit well with me, especially since the neighbor had not asked permission to block my drive, or to inform me that he was doing this kind of work. If he'd asked, I probably wouldn't have cared one way or the other. I wrote him a letter complaining about this and stating that I'd like to be informed of this kind of work in the future., unfortunately this caused him to get a big head and he decided to connect gravel from his new concrete driveway down a slope to my 10ft encroachment, which never really made any sense to us. The distance between driveways is probably between 40 and 50 feet. On a daily basis he uses my driveway to come and go. I don't feel this is particularly right, so I decided to make a statement and started using his driveway to access mine. I realize this wasn't the best thing to do, but it's not like he ever wanted to talk to me about it, and if I tried he always got real defensive over it. So he finally saw me enter his drive and pull down to mine and came over all angry and warned me to never do it again. He threatened to have cinder blocks installed to block my access to the turnaround. What are my basic rights? If I ever decided to have driveway work done what can I do now that he is connected to this encroachment? To my knowledge there is no legal documentation of this on my title, a recent appraisal mentions this "deeper than typical site in the area, with no apparent adverse easements, encroachments, or other negative factors." This appraisal was completed just before this fiasco started, a little over a year ago.

 

[FarmerJ]

You wrote >and have been considering purchasing it for years< then later you mention a appraisal so if you completed the sale and it is now yours , get a survey so you know exactly where your lot lines are on that side have a real estate atty review your survey and situation if atty confirms that there is no kind of easment of any sort ever granted in writting to that lot next door and they still have there own driveway leading to the public road and the atty gives you green light to fence in your property say 3 inches your side of the lot line so the fence is not on either the lot line itself or his land. DO it and let him verbally agress as much as he needs to since it would be up to him to prove satisfactorily to a court that he is entitled to use part of your land. If you have not bought it yet then its up to your gramma to take steps to deal with it unless you can speed up the sale say by her being willing to do a contract for deed on it so you can be come the owner now and make payments to her instead of waiting for a mortgage. Either way I really think your best bet is to speak to a atty after you have a survey done and also if there is no underground utils to pound in some copper grounding rods with a small sledge so survey markers dont vanish.

 

[tgibson]

You wrote >and have been considering purchasing it for years< then later you mention a appraisal so if you completed the sale and it is now yours , get a survey so you know exactly where your lot lines are on that side have a real estate atty review your survey and situation if atty confirms that there is no kind of easment of any sort ever granted in writting to that lot next door and they still have there own driveway leading to the public road and the atty gives you green light to fence in your property say 3 inches your side of the lot line so the fence is not on either the lot line itself or his land. DO it and let him verbally agress as much as he needs to since it would be up to him to prove satisfactorily to a court that he is entitled to use part of your land. If you have not bought it yet then its up to your gramma to take steps to deal with it unless you can speed up the sale say by her being willing to do a contract for deed on it so you can be come the owner now and make payments to her instead of waiting for a mortgage. Either way I really think your best bet is to speak to a atty after you have a survey done and also if there is no underground utils to pound in some copper grounding rods with a small sledge so survey markers dont vanish.

Well, there is a fence that ends just before the turnaround in question, its been here for atleast 50 years, I've done some repairs to it to get it back in 'tip top' shape but it still stands proudly, there are physical iron survey steaks still visible on the other side of the fence a few inches from the fence. I do not legally own the property yet, but I did have it appraised to figure out asking price etc. Since his house is former family I actually have all of the survey documents from his property. A survey hasn't been done on my house since it was built in 57, however his was done in 93 when my grandpa did some dealings with the city for his mothers land. There was another survey done in 99 when she died and the property was divided for city use and then sold back to private owners. You can see the fence line at the beginning of the drive on google, and bing. Like I said there are steaks a few inches on the other side of the fence. Regardless, I agree this land is in dire need of a survey, according to my survey from the 50s the lot line on the other side rides up on the other neighbors foundation! There was also a temporary permit issued in 1991 to change land contours and driveway contours, this from what I can tell is when the asphalt drive was redone, timed with the expansion of the road from 2 to 4 lanes.

 

[FarmerJ]

You your self cannot do a whole lot about it until you do own it , BUT if it is still owned by family members( your grams heirs) maybe its time to sit them all down and talk to them with a atty about buying it on a contract for deed after they have a boundry survey done where you pay one heir and they handle paying the others , this would be one way to legally have the right to begin address the problem. The services of a atty would be well worth it to do a contract for deed as well as assisting with your other problem there once you own it.

 

[tgibson]

You your self cannot do a whole lot about it until you do own it , BUT if it is still owned by family members( your grams heirs) maybe its time to sit them all down and talk to them with a atty about buying it on a contract for deed after they have a boundry survey done where you pay one heir and they handle paying the others , this would be one way to legally have the right to begin address the problem. The services of a atty would be well worth it to do a contract for deed as well as assisting with your other problem there once you own it.

I appreciate your input, it's already been quit claimed down and I have been notarized has having the first option to purchase it pending. That said, I'm still left wondering if anyone might have some input on options with the encroachment issue, or what this driveway contour permit thing was. It's the one thing keeping me from really wanting to settle down here, not sure why it bugs me so much. Everything else here is fantastic. If the sale did go through what should I do with this dispute, what avenue do I go down if I were to seek an attorney. I'd like to have some ideas in my head going forward before I shell out the cash and take the time go through all that. Or is it just one of those things that has to remain as is till the end of time since he connected to it, and I just have to bite the bullet. I talked to the city once about this, obviously they don't get involved in land disputes but they did wonder why the right of way was ever allowed to be as large it is since the residential limit is 24 or something. Anyway...I'd appreciate any opinion you have on the matter. To my knowledge nothing is in the title, maybe I should force the issue, maybe he wouldn't like an encroachment/easement on his title?

 

[FarmerJ]

After all these years I would guess maybe you have spent some of your money to fix up the house or do things to make it comfortable ? if you have the least you can do is consult with a atty , this area he connected going down the slope as you describe it, if it is not on his land, how long ago was it done? if its only been a short time (Unless the law changed in your state ,you will have to search to see if it has ) The elements of adverse possession in Michigan are: actual, visible, open, notorious, exclusive, and uninterrupted possession of the property that was hostile to the owner and under cover of a claim of right for a fifteen-year period. So In order to have the legal right to stop his use of that area say with a fence you would need the current owner of the property to be willing to back you up if you fenced it in blocking that connection, As long as the nieghbor has another means of access to a public road it would be easier if you owned the property, your other questions re city actions are ones to talk to your city council person to get help understanding it. The city issues you mentioned will take some work but you should be able to get the info for free from someone in city or county govt BUT use of the connected drive to yours is alot easier to fight if you owned it. If it was me I would still seek the services of a atty.

 

[tgibson]

After all these years I would guess maybe you have spent some of your money to fix up the house or do things to make it comfortable ? if you have the least you can do is consult with a atty , this area he connected going down the slope as you describe it, if it is not on his land, how long ago was it done? if its only been a short time (Unless the law changed in your state ,you will have to search to see if it has ) The elements of adverse possession in Michigan are: actual, visible, open, notorious, exclusive, and uninterrupted possession of the property that was hostile to the owner and under cover of a claim of right for a fifteen-year period. So In order to have the legal right to stop his use of that area say with a fence you would need the current owner of the property to be willing to back you up if you fenced it in blocking that connection, As long as the nieghbor has another means of access to a public road it would be easier if you owned the property, your other questions re city actions are ones to talk to your city council person to get help understanding it. The city issues you mentioned will take some work but you should be able to get the info for free from someone in city or county govt BUT use of the connected drive to yours is alot easier to fight if you owned it. If it was me I would still seek the services of a atty.

You are correct, my fiancee and I have spent a few dollars making it enjoyable and to our taste. That said, the driveway runs to the public road, with a turn around at the top of it just before the right of way and sidewalk, this turnaround extends beyond the fence line by roughly 10 feet by 12. This small portion is the part that is physically on his property. He had a new concrete driveway installed utilizing his old access to the road. He has a car parking/turnaround area further up which he used gravel to connect down to the 10 foot asphalt encroachment which he uses to ingress and egress all the time. This was all done last year, a few months after his initial driveway was installed. He's only owned the property for maybe 6 or 7 years. I'm starting to think this whole thing is a lost cause, believe it or not my grandfather served as one of the planning commissioners on the city for several decades, clearly he did a phenomenal job planning his own driveway!

 

[tgibson]

UPDATE:

Property was surveyed, best money ever spent. Found out my property does not go nearly as deep as I'd thought, and another neighbors fence line encroaches by almost 6 feet tapering back to the line closer to the houses at my half acre point. The survey confirmed what I already knew, the turnaround portion at the top of my drive encroaches by roughly 10 feet, the other 40-45" belong to me/city. Being on a 4 lane road the city holds a 100ft easement? or right of way? and the entire turnaround as described falls in this area. The stretch of gravel he dropped on this lawn connecting to the drive lies mostly in this city area as well. I've confronted the city about this, but they seem to be unmotivated to help. They tell me they don't require permits for gravel work. I'll continue working this front, I'm not sure if he could have done this without permission in the city easement. I'll also investigate if the curb cut was solely intended for my addresses use. A friend suggested I have a new driveway put in, as it would require me to bring the right of way/curb cut to city code, which allows only for a 24" max curb & gutter, 5ft from property lines, since city law prohibits residences from having more than one curb cut this would certainly restrict my neighbor from using this. If the city right of way didn't extend out as far as it does a real estate attorney told me I may be able to seek adverse possession since we've been maintaing, cleaning and repairing this driveway for over 30 years. That would however require litigation...all because one arrogant man is a complete prick about needing to ingress and egress out of a neighbors driveway. If none of this works out I could always rent the property to low income partiers, that would certainly shake things up.

 

[FarmerJ]

T the city easement area amount is a common size for heavy traffic roads , gravel turn around areas do not stop the city from doing what ever they have to regarding the road , they still will do what ever they must from time to time like when people plant trees /bushes or other expensive landscape work with in those easement areas then lose it when city or county crews come to create drainage ditches or dig it up for a city utility. so gravel driveway use of the area just may not be a big issue to them. You will allways own the land with in the easement area and have to maintain it (mow it) just like the rest of your lot unless they have to widen the road again , then of course they would likely have pay for any more land they take. all separate issue from neighbors actions that involve your lot line between the two of you. Have you gotten any closer to buying the property ?

 

[csi7]

encroachment

The survey makes a difference for the base of the solution. By using documentation method to chart the presentation of information through each of the agencies that are involved, you will save yourself a lot of extraneous effort and time to find a positive solution. Be proactive, especially in looking at agencies outside of the normal route of information, because sometimes, your solution lies with utility requirements, environmental protection, water management, federal grant requirements, and other unusual avenues. Good luck!