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X

X Felon

Guest
Thanks for the reply, "Buddy." But let me fill you in. I pled guilty to a charge of possession of a controlled substance almost 30 years ago when I was a stupid 18yr old. A lot has happened since then. I have been a responsible parent, taxpayer, etc. for a very long time. I have been as good a citizen as anyone can ask for. The law is the law, but I feel I deserve a little respect for my achievements.
 


I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by X Felon:
Thanks for the reply, "Buddy." But let me fill you in. I pled guilty to a charge of possession of a controlled substance almost 30 years ago when I was a stupid 18yr old. A lot has happened since then. I have been a responsible parent, taxpayer, etc. for a very long time. I have been as good a citizen as anyone can ask for. The law is the law, but I feel I deserve a little respect for my achievements.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My response:

Have you ever read "The Scarlet Letter"? Look, I don't want to argue with you, but as far as I'm concerned, you are "marked" for life as being untrustworthy. It makes no difference to me whether you paid your "debt to society" or whether you won the Silver Star in Vietnam. You're still a felon, and should never be trusted with anything dangerous like controlled substances or the ownership of a gun. Once you've broken the law, and have shown the world you cannot be trusted, you are not entitled to the same rights as I am, and should never own a gun because no one knows when you'll "go off" and break another law. You can't even vote. It's like a dog that gets a taste of blood . . . that dog is dangerous for all time, and to society at large.

But then, I'm only one person in Society. However, I imagine you've been running into people like me, with the same opinion about you, for years now. We don't want to take another chance, thank you very much.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

IAAL


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By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."



[This message has been edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE (edited September 10, 2000).]
 
X

X Felon

Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE:

My response:

Have you ever read "The Scarlet Letter"? Look, I don't want to argue with you, but as far as I'm concerned, you are "marked" for life as being untrustworthy. It makes no difference to me whether you paid your "debt to society" or whether you won the Silver Star in Vietnam. You're still a felon, and should never be trusted with anything dangerous like controlled substances or the ownership of a gun. Once you've broken the law, and have shown the world you cannot be trusted, you are not entitled to the same rights as I am, and should never own a gun because no one knows when you'll "go off" and break another law. You can't even vote. It's like a dog that gets a taste of blood . . . that dog is dangerous for all time, and to society at large.

But then, I'm only one person in Society. However, I imagine you've been running into people like me, with the same opinion about you, for years now. We don't want to take another chance, thank you very much.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

IAAL

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Liable, thank you for your comment. I can't say I blame you at all. In this age and country, where there is so much crime and a lot of it avoidable, your feelings are understandable. I go as far as to say I agree with you. But, I am still a good person, citizen, father, etc. no matter what the law sais, and no matter what rights I have lost. I just thought I would ask. Good day, and thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
My response:

You're welcome.

IAAL

------------------
By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."

 
L

LadyLiberty

Guest
Just to clear up a misconception, ex-felons do not lose the right to vote unless they are in prison or on parole. Once they are released and have discharged their parole, they may vote again. If they receive a suspended sentence and are not sent to prison, they never lose their right to vote. If you don't believe me, get a voter registration card and read the requirements printed above where you sign. If you are a citizen over the age of 18 and not in prison or on parole for a felony, you are eligible to vote. Don't feel bad, this is a common misconception. Have a nice day!

------------------
Legalize Freedom
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LadyLiberty:
Just to clear up a misconception, ex-felons do not lose the right to vote unless they are in prison or on parole. Once they are released and have discharged their parole, they may vote again. If they receive a suspended sentence and are not sent to prison, they never lose their right to vote. If you don't believe me, get a voter registration card and read the requirements printed above where you sign. If you are a citizen over the age of 18 and not in prison or on parole for a felony, you are eligible to vote. Don't feel bad, this is a common misconception. Have a nice day!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My response:

You're wrong LL - -

Almost every state in the U.S. denies prisoners the right to vote. But fourteen states bar criminal offenders from voting even after they have finished their sentences. In these states, over one million ex-offenders are permanently disenfranchised.

Any felony can trigger disenfranchisement. A first-time young offender who pleads guilty to a single drug sale and is placed on probation can lose the right to vote for a lifetime.

IAAL



------------------
By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."

 
L

LadyLiberty

Guest
Thanks for the info. So I was only partially right. In 36 states ex-felons can still vote, right? I live in California, so that is the only state I have much knowledge about. :)

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Legalize Freedom
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LadyLiberty:
Thanks for the info. So I was only partially right. In 36 states ex-felons can still vote, right? I live in California, so that is the only state I have much knowledge about. :)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My response:

California is one of those 14 States.

I read your "bio" but it fails to state your occupation.

IAAL


------------------
By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."

 
L

LadyLiberty

Guest
IAAL, now you have my curiosity up? Could you give me an idea where you got your information regarding ex-felons being unable to vote in California? I am just going by what is on the voter registration card which states that the only felons unable to vote are those in prison or on parole. That is all you have to verify on the registration card, so if others are also excluded why doesn't it state anyone convicted of a felony is ineligible. I'm not trying to argue, I just don't want to misinform anyone if I'm wrong. As to my occupation, officially I've been an eligibility worker at the local welfare office for almost 8 years. Unofficially, I've done a lot of legal research for assorted friends and family for the last 15 years because the local public defenders are more inclined to present a defense if someone else does all the research and foot work. Would like to change careers into the legal field someday, as I'm very interested in the subject. Enjoy reading your postings, even if I don't always agree with them, because you do usually give some good advice. :)Have a nice day!

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Legalize Freedom

[This message has been edited by LadyLiberty (edited September 16, 2000).]
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
My response:

I know you're not trying to argue. I realize that you, like everyone else, is trying to "understand" our laws, and it's not an easy task. But, I will help and assist anyone who shows a genuine interest in the law, and you have such an interest - - and that's a good thing.

I'm not quite sure you're reading from a current voter information card. If you are, it may have been written by someone who didn't quite understand the law - - that happens all the time, and you have to also remember, those cards, and pamphlets are not written by the California Legislature; but rather, by some unnamed and unknown Clerk or otherwise of some State office somewhere in the bowels of the labyrinth of our State Government. Sometimes, it doesn't get caught by the proofreaders, only because those people also don't know the law. So, garbage gets through.

However, the following is from my 2000 Penal Code Book:

California Penal Code Section 4852.17.

"Whenever a person is issued a certificate of rehabilitation or granted a pardon from the Governor under this chapter, the fact shall be immediately reported to the Department of Justice by the court, Governor, officer, or governmental agency by whose official action the certificate is issued or the pardon granted. The Department of Justice shall immediately record the facts so reported on the former criminal record of the person, and transmit those facts to the Federal Bureau of Investigation at Washington, D.C. When the criminal record is thereafter reported by
the department, it shall also report the fact that the person has received a certificate of rehabilitation, or pardon, or both.

Whenever a person is granted a full and unconditional pardon by the Governor, based upon a certificate of rehabilitation, the pardon shall entitle the person to exercise thereafter all civil and political rights of citizenship, including but not limited to: (1) the right to vote; (2) the right to own, possess, and keep any type of firearm that may lawfully be owned and possessed by other
citizens; except that this right shall not be restored, and Sections 12001 and 12021 shall apply, if the person was ever convicted of a felony involving the use of a dangerous weapon."

The "KEY" phrases from this code section are:

"Whenever a person is granted a full and unconditional pardon by the Governor . . ."

[The Governor rarely, if ever, pardons criminals - - but this is one way for a convict to get his rights restored in California. Without a pardon, no rights are ever restored, even after parole.]

and . . .

" . . . the pardon shall entitle the person to exercise thereafter all civil and political rights of citizenship, including but not limited to: (1) the right to vote; (2) the right to own, possess, and keep any type of firearm that may lawfully be owned and possessed by other citizens; except that this right shall not be restored, and Sections 12001 and 12021 shall apply, if the person was ever convicted of a felony involving the use of a dangerous weapon."

[This part is self explanatory. It is important to remember that ending one's Parole doesn't mean he/she has been "Rehabilitated"; it only means that the person has completed his/her sentence of punishment. So, only a pardon will allow voting rights to resume, but only if there was no "use of a dangerous weapon." I have never heard of any of our past or present Governors in California ever having granted a pardon to a convicted drug user, dealer, manufacterer, or otherwise.]

[Ergo, a convicted felon in California, even after parole has ended, will not be able to vote, unless he/she has received a Governor's Pardon BASED UPON a certificate of Rehabilitation - which is also VERY RARE. A convict may receive a Certificate of Rehabilitation but, without a Pardon from the Governor, he/she can forget about voting or attaining any of the other rights, supra]

[Now, I'd love to continue our chat, but I have to go out and Vote, and then it's off to the gun store to pick up my .44 Magnum with the 12" barrel . . . ]

IAAL

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By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."



[This message has been edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE (edited September 16, 2000).]
 
N

notfair

Guest
I.M.O. it is wrong. When one has paid their debt to society, serves their time, paid their restitution.... then they should be considered "rehabilitated" and all their "rights" should be restored after a certain amount of time of proven "good behavior".

I thought that was what prison and jail were "supposed" to be about. Not just punishment and then being branded, forever, for something you did in the past. When one has paid for their crime, then it needs to be OVER and they are entitiled to another chance. Crooked politicans , even those who go to prison are pardoned and forgiven by society, all the time. Even presidents.
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by notfair:
Crooked politicans , even those who go to prison are pardoned and forgiven by society, all the time. Even presidents. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My response:

Well, in the State of California, Pardons are EXTREMELY RARE. But, if you're talking about Patty Hearst, she was pardoned by your good friend, and mine, President "Peanut Brain" Jimmy Carter.

And, if you're also talking about President Ford's pardon of President Nixon, then you're wrong again. While I couldn't stand that idiot, Nixon "had" to be pardoned because President Ford was "spending 25% of his time" on the Watergate and Nixon matters.

IAAL
------------------
By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."


[This message has been edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE (edited September 19, 2000).]
 
M

mystery

Guest
I dont have any answers for you X Felon but you have my heart. It was almost like you were telling my story. Seems like no matter how hard I try the past comes back to haunt me. Sometimes I wonder "why try"?
 
N

nightowl50

Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LadyLiberty:
IAAL, now you have my curiosity up? Could you give me an idea where you got your information regarding ex-felons being unable to vote in California? I am just going by what is on the voter registration card which states that the only felons unable to vote are those in prison or on parole. That is all you have to verify on the registration card, so if others are also excluded why doesn't it state anyone convicted of a felony is ineligible. I'm not trying to argue, I just don't want to misinform anyone if I'm wrong. As to my occupation, officially I've been an eligibility worker at the local welfare office for almost 8 years. Unofficially, I've done a lot of legal research for assorted friends and family for the last 15 years because the local public defenders are more inclined to present a defense if someone else does all the research and foot work. Would like to change careers into the legal field someday, as I'm very interested in the subject. Enjoy reading your postings, even if I don't always agree with them, because you do usually give some good advice. :)Have a nice day!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LL you'er not wrong. This is right out of the California Election Code: "2101. A person entitled to register to vote shall be a United States citizen, a resident of California, not in prison or on parole for the conviction of a felony, and at least 18 years of age at the time of the next election." Also I happen to be on parole and with it comes a lot of papers, one of which explains how my right to vote returns to me upon discharge.
 
N

NYKimK

Guest
Dear X-Felon:
I guess You should be nail to the cross!
Thank God not all of society is like this person, "Scarlet letter commentator". This person must be a nun or priest (even they fall from grace and I guess they should be damn forever too. Wow, what coldness and rigidness. We are human beings not Gods.

Right now, my brother WHO IS 51 Years got his professional licenses and cannot use them as a result of the offenses he did when he was in he was in his teens and early 20's. He too has been a productive member of society for the past 25 years and is a grandfather with lots of Loe and COMPASSION for people. Society will take your taxes and needs your vote but will not give you a "Second Chance".
Obviously this person is a saint never had wrong a thought or curse. Wow. This person must live in Kansas with ToTo.

"Amen" to you for moving forward with your life no one knows your circumstances at the time. I am sure it was not easy. So I appauld you and I wish you every success.

P.S. I have written to my assemblyman, congressman, senator about my situation, dont give up. Perhaps with all our voices they will hear us and make some changes.
All the best to you and yours.
God Bless.

 

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