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Statute of limitations - when does the clock start?

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justalayman

Senior Member
Why not? I can image an HOA board allowing an exception if its proven to them that the technology is even better than soft cover. They certainly have the right to do so.
Sure they can allow an exception if they choose but if the neighbor complains of sound issues, they would be hard pressed not demanding the flooring be changed. The neighbor gets to stand on the rules; no hard flooring. if the board wants to spend a lot of Association money to attempt to prove the op’s install allows for no more sound transmission than the best install available when the rules were written, well, they deserve to be sued for improper actions costing the association members a ton of money.

So, since the complainant can stand there and say; the rules say no hard floors, the board is pretty much forced to enforce that rule regardless what the tech of yesterday allowed regarding sound transmission. They would be foolish to allow an exception if anybody complains about noise.


Btw; the sound issue isn’t just about neighbors below. It involves adjacent units as well (per the rules posted) and sound attenuation materials under the flooring will do little to prevent the sharp sound created when a high heel strikes a hardwood floor.
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Sure they can allow an exception if they choose but if the neighbor complains of sound issues, they would be hard pressed not demanding the flooring be changed. The neighbor gets to stand on the rules; no hard flooring. if the board wants to spend a lot of Association money to attempt to prove the op’s install allows for no more sound transmission than the best install available when the rules were written, well, they deserve to be sued for improper actions costing the association members a ton of money.

So, since the complainant can stand there and say; the rules say no hard floors, the board is pretty much forced to enforce that rule regardless what the tech of yesterday allowed regarding sound transmission. They would be foolish to allow an exception if anybody complains about noise.


Btw; the sound issue isn’t just about neighbors below. It involves adjacent units as well (per the rules posted) and sound attenuation materials under the flooring will do little to prevent the sharp sound created when a high heel strikes a hardwood floor.
You are getting weaving in and out of things here.

The OP has had the floors for 16 years so that is a pretty clear indication that nobody has been complaining. The combination of no one complaining and proof that the flooring is better than carpeting is a worthwhile argument to make to the HOA board to try to convince them to grant an exception. This is exactly what I said in my first post that you started disagreeing with.

I repeat...it appears that no one is complaining. The issue has only arisen because there is a brand new management company who has decided that they are going to enforce rules that previously were not enforced.

Once again OP, if you can prove to the HOA board that the technology for your flooring is better for sound issues than carpeting, and if you can prove to them that no one under you has been complaining about noise from your unit, they might very well grant you an exception.

Yes, even if they grant an exception, if someone DOES start complaining then the issue would have to be revisited.
 

AL ROQUE

Junior Member
The SOL does apply. It starts running from when the violation of the restriction is discovered (which is now) and the HOA has five years to file a lawsuit if necessary.

That's actually explained in the case decision that Festival posted where suit was brought 4 years after the violation was discovered.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=7497609664049939891&q=pacific+hills+homeowners+association+v+prun&hl=en&as_sdt=4,5

The court also made short work of the other defenses mentioned by Festival.

So are you saying that it’s to the advantage of the HOA since they “just discovered” the violation now and they have until 2023 to force me to change my flooring? If so, doesn’t this clause also say that through the exercise of due diligence that they should have discovered the violation (earlier)?

To me, the HOA only had until 2007 to force me to comply but I think you are saying otherwise.

I’m slow today, forgive me. Can you please shed more light.
 

PayrollHRGuy

Senior Member
SoL laws generally have wording that state they don't start until they are known or should have been known. If they just now discovered you were in violation the clock just started ticking.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Im not weaving anything other than a statement that your argument ancient tech is not as efficient as current tech is irrelevent in arguing the board should grant an exception. Who knows what tech was present when the rules were written and how effective the system the op’s install uses. What was available compared to what is available now doesn’t mean anything in this discussion.

What they can do regarding exceptions has nothing to do with what they can require the op to do under the rules.

And given the board has made the demand op change the flooring, it would appear they are concerned with enforcing the rules regardless of whether anybody complains. They can actually do that. I would suspect they aren’t too interested in discussing tech of the day given they are seeking to enforce the rule because it is the rule.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
Yes, an HOA board has the power to make an exception. It also has the power to change the standards and procedures in the CC&Rs.

But this HOA board appears to be going after everybody with a hard floor without exception so if the OP was taken to court he'd probably lose.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
So are you saying that it’s to the advantage of the HOA since they “just discovered” the violation now and they have until 2023 to force me to change my flooring? If so, doesn’t this clause also say that through the exercise of due diligence that they should have discovered the violation (earlier)?

To me, the HOA only had until 2007 to force me to comply but I think you are saying otherwise.

I’m slow today, forgive me. Can you please shed more light.
its called the discovery rule. Often times the clock on the statute of limitations doesn’t start running until the issue is discovered or at least reasonably should have been discovered. It inserts a matter of fairness into the law and removes situations where the issue is intentionally hidden.

As I see it that would be your only defense to their demands. If you can show they did know of the condition or reasonably should have been aware of the condition, you can argue the clock started running then. If that awareness was long ago enough that the clock has run out, they should not prevail in their demands in court.
 

festival

Member
According to California Code Civ. Proc. §336(b) the statue of limitations "... runs from the time the person seeking to enforce the restriction discovered or, through the exercise of reasonable diligence, should have discovered the violation. ". If I were the OP, I would argue that it started 16 years ago when the manager was informed.

Anything you have to show that you told the manager 16 years ago would help, such as your own notes, or even if it is your insistence and testimony, that is better than nothing.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Yes, an HOA board has the power to make an exception. It also has the power to change the standards and procedures in the CC&Rs.

But this HOA board appears to be going after everybody with a hard floor without exception so if the OP was taken to court he'd probably lose.
I do not think that the board has weighed in on the issue yet. It appears that so far its the new management company flexing their muscles.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested that the OP get the issue in front of the board.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
One might argue that management was keenly aware of the soft floor padding point way back in the beginning and thier paid manager failed to bring it up as a problem way back then...ergo it's a stale issue now.
 

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