Need advise which involves youth sports

[Jesse32]

Here are the details; I was part of a youth football organization in Michigan for 5 years. I played in every season, volunteered my time, and paid to play in many of their tournaments. I came across the opportunity of a lifetime to create my own leagues and own my own business so I jumped on it. Of course the other organization was upset being they had a monopoly for 15 years and I was coming into their territory. But everything was good, I never belittled them for my own profit but they have made my chances of succeeding a living hell, no biggie that's business. Here is the issue: I tried to register for local tournaments for my 20 kids and they told me my team and organization was banned. I asked why and they said we don't want your kids playing where our kids are playing... For months all the tournaments around the United States advertised: "This tournament is an open invite!! Anyone can enter a team, you do not have to qualify for this tournament". As soon as they caught wind of my team joining the changed the wording to: open to teams that have played in their organization only. I responded back, well I played in your organization for 5 years and played in 2018 so we qualify right? Again.. my team and I are blacklisted. So just to try again I registered and paid, Our team showed on the website for about 2 hours and then they took us off. Ive tried multiple times reaching out but the owner of this organization but he is simply impossible to talk to, He takes the meaning of alpha male to the extreme there is no talking to this man. Just a background on myself and my team, I'm a 19 year Navy service member, my Marine retired friend and I created this team. We teach these boys how to win with class and learn from losses. We have never been in any confrontations with anyone. These boys just want to play, so they get blacklisted because they followed their coach to another organization? They cannot give us a legitimate reason for being banned and be told we don't want our kids playing with your kids? I know we have a long shot here but if anyone could please help us we would appreciate it.

 

[quincy]

Here are the details; I was part of a youth football organization in Michigan for 5 years. I played in every season, volunteered my time, and paid to play in many of their tournaments. I came across the opportunity of a lifetime to create my own leagues and own my own business so I jumped on it. Of course the other organization was upset being they had a monopoly for 15 years and I was coming into their territory. But everything was good, I never belittled them for my own profit but they have made my chances of succeeding a living hell, no biggie that's business. Here is the issue: I tried to register for local tournaments for my 20 kids and they told me my team and organization was banned. I asked why and they said we don't want your kids playing where our kids are playing... For months all the tournaments around the United States advertised: "This tournament is an open invite!! Anyone can enter a team, you do not have to qualify for this tournament". As soon as they caught wind of my team joining the changed the wording to: open to teams that have played in their organization only. I responded back, well I played in your organization for 5 years and played in 2018 so we qualify right? Again.. my team and I are blacklisted. So just to try again I registered and paid, Our team showed on the website for about 2 hours and then they took us off. Ive tried multiple times reaching out but the owner of this organization but he is simply impossible to talk to, He takes the meaning of alpha male to the extreme there is no talking to this man. Just a background on myself and my team, I'm a 19 year Navy service member, my Marine retired friend and I created this team. We teach these boys how to win with class and learn from losses. We have never been in any confrontations with anyone. These boys just want to play, so they get blacklisted because they followed their coach to another organization? They cannot give us a legitimate reason for being banned and be told we don't want our kids playing with your kids? I know we have a long shot here but if anyone could please help us we would appreciate it.

Is the other youth football organization a privately-run organization?

 

[Jesse32]

Is the other youth football organization a privately-run organization?

Hard to say, I know they are a 501c3, and are using a 3rd party to run their tournaments. I would have to get back to you on that one

 

[adjusterjack]

Hold a press conference. Challenge them in public. Claim your team will beat the pants off theirs and they are chicken if they don't let your team play. That "alpha male" will probably not let the challenge go unanswered.

 

[justalayman]

Why do you feel you have a right to play within an organization you do not belong to? I understand where the rules originally did not disqualify your team but if the change of rules does disqualify you, why do you feel you have a right to demand you be allowed to play within their organization?

 

[quincy]

A lot can depend on whether the organization is a privately sponsored organization or an organization that is community or state sponsored (e.g., park and recreation department) - and, if not privately sponsored, other factors can come into play.

Note the placement of the thread in the "civil rights/discrimination" section of the forum.

 

[justalayman]

Giving due respect to your statement, it would appear the op is not aware of any condition that would allow him to demand the right to play within the league. I did ask why he believes he has any right to play. Based solely on statements so far it appears he believes he has a right to play simply because he wants to without any legal basis to support his demand. While it may eventually be shown he has some rights here, I don’t see where the op has shown any belief he is the victim of any illegal activity.

The fact the op mentioned tournements all around the US, I suspect the league is one of many various leagues that were designed to establish various rules of play and actions within the various local divisions, including a the requirement of a formal relationship with the sponsoring national league.

Simply stated, I can’t just make a baseball team and demand I be allowed to play in the official Little League system. I see that as what the op has described as the situation.

Op also seems to be confusing the local organization with the national organization. It would appear the rules are issued by the national level while op is arguing with a local organization entity. Unless the local guy is also an officer of the national organization, it would appear he is talking to the wrong person.

 

[Jesse32]

Why do you feel you have a right to play within an organization you do not belong to? I understand where the rules originally did not disqualify your team but if the change of rules does disqualify you, why do you feel you have a right to demand you be allowed to play within their organization?

That organization runs tournaments for all to play in. Never in their history have they turned away a team nor will they turn away any other organization willing to participate. This move was made specifically to ban my team and anyone associated with our new group. Very good point about why participate in their organization and I wish there were other options but again were in a market where they had a monopoly for over 15 years.

 

[quincy]

That organization runs tournaments for all to play in. Never in their history have they turned away a team nor will they turn away any other organization willing to participate. This move was made specifically to ban my team and anyone associated with our new group. Very good point about why participate in their organization and I wish there were other options but again were in a market where they had a monopoly for over 15 years.

This is a privately sponsored organization?

WHY do you believe the organization does not want to include your team?

 

[Jesse32]

Giving due respect to your statement, it would appear the op is not aware of any condition that would allow him to demand the right to play within the league. I did ask why he believes he has any right to play. Based solely on statements so far it appears he believes he has a right to play simply because he wants to without any legal basis to support his demand. While it may eventually be shown he has some rights here, I don’t see where the op has shown any belief he is the victim of any illegal activity.

The fact the op mentioned tournements all around the US, I suspect the league is one of many various leagues that were designed to establish various rules of play and actions within the various local divisions, including a the requirement of a formal relationship with the sponsoring national league.

Simply stated, I can’t just make a baseball team and demand I be allowed to play in the official Little League system. I see that as what the op has described as the situation.

Op also seems to be confusing the local organization with the national organization. It would appear the rules are issued by the national level while op is arguing with a local organization entity. Unless the local guy is also an officer of the national organization, it would appear he is talking to the wrong person.

The local organization is the national organization. They are headquartered in my state but offer tournaments with a 3rd party to take them into states they were not previously in. In just looking for a road map I guess you can say. Should I just take the loss and wrap up shop on this issue? Thank you again for your time!

 

[Jesse32]

This is a privately sponsored organization?

WHY do you believe the organization does not want to include your team?

When I started my program they offered to buy me out. I met with them, we had a great meeting but the offer was a bit insulting. So I notified them I was going to continue with my program which is a completely different format. But with that said it gives parents an option and takes money out of their pocket. I know 100% it has nothing to do with my team but more directed to me personally. So in order to regain kids they lost they changed the verbiage on their tournament series block out anyone that is associated in our program. This organization was formed by 3 directors, they are a LLC and have a 501c3. That is all I could find out.

 

[quincy]

The local organization is the national organization. They are headquartered in my state but offer tournaments with a 3rd party to take them into states they were not previously in. In just looking for a road map I guess you can say. Should I just take the loss and wrap up shop on this issue? Thank you again for your time!

Should you take the loss and wrap up shop? Probably. That is certainly the easiest route to take.

Following is a link to information on "freedom of association" which is what allows a private organization to decide who will and who will not be allowed membership:
https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1/annotation12.html

Good luck to your team.

 

[justalayman]

That organization runs tournaments for all to play in. Never in their history have they turned away a team nor will they turn away any other organization willing to participate. This move was made specifically to ban my team and anyone associated with our new group. Very good point about why participate in their organization and I wish there were other options but again were in a market where they had a monopoly for over 15 years.

apparently not for all to play in. As you stated, their amended rules state you must have played in their league to be eligible for the tournements they sponsor.

To demand they allow you to play in their tournaments, you have to have a legal basis a court would accept that would allow a court to order them to allow you to play. So far all you’ve said is they won’t let you play within their league. So far that means nothing legally as without a reason they can’t exclude you, they can exclude you.

 

[not2cleverRed]

When I started my program they offered to buy me out. I met with them, we had a great meeting but the offer was a bit insulting. So I notified them I was going to continue with my program which is a completely different format. But with that said it gives parents an option and takes money out of their pocket. I know 100% it has nothing to do with my team but more directed to me personally. So in order to regain kids they lost they changed the verbiage on their tournament series block out anyone that is associated in our program. This organization was formed by 3 directors, they are a LLC and have a 501c3. That is all I could find out.

I will admit, I know little about football. Like, I know the ball is a funny shape.

However, from other sports and organizations, I have some theories. One theory is that it might be perceived that when you broke away and started your own group, that you cherry picked among their members to form your team. They might have the belief, right or wrong, that their organization provided the foundational skill training, and you are trying to reap the benefits.

For example, when my daughter was a preschooler there was an upheaval and exodus of instructors from her dance studio, and the students they took with them were the travelling competition kids, not the preschoolers, for example. (Little kids pay the same tuition, have less attitude, are easily bribed with stickers, and everyone is happy if they're just cute at the recital. But there's less prestige.)

Ultimately, your team is not part of the organization that organizes the tournament, and they can choose to make rules excluding nonmembers of their organization from their tournaments.

 

[cbg]

The possibility exists that the rule was changed not specifically to exclude you and no one else, but because it had not occurred to them that a rule requiring that teams have played in the league might be needed. Your application showed that it was, so they amended the rules. Now, if you should find that another team who has never played in the league was allowed to play in the tournament, then you might have some evidence that it's personal.

At which point then the WHY is of utmost importance.