Sub-letters? Renters?

[justpikaname]

I'm not sure what to call them.

Here's the situation:

Before my husband and I were married, he purchased a home from a man who lives in the same area. They have a contract, and my husband still owes about 26k on the house.

About 2 years ago, he was single and a truck driver and was never home. He agreed to let some people he knew (went to school with) rent his house for 450 a month. No contract, no lease (dumb, I know). The man he is buying the house from is aware and had no problem with it, just make sure house payment gets paid.

The current renters, or perhaps they are called sub-letters, have been great. Always paid rent on time.

February of this year, I found out I was pregnant and we decided we wanted to move back into this house and set up family. We informed the renters on February 21st, we would need them out by May 1st 2019. They were not happy (aww we love this house, don't wanna move) but agreed.

They paid March's rent just fine, and we made phone calls for them looking for a new place to live. We contacted landlords we knew and passed on the info to them, but something always was wrong with the homes.

April 1st, we reminded them (this has all been done via text) they needed to be out by May 1st. They responded Okay. Then we asked when they would be home so we could pick up rent, and it's been complete silence since.

We've texted, called, knocked on the door. Nothing. They completely stiffed us April's rent. Which to be honest I don't care, I just want them out.

I finally managed to get the husband to answer the door today, and told him I was just trying to make contact to see if they were going to be out by the 1st. He said "Yeah, I don't know, we don't have a place or anything yet". I told him he or his wife needs to contact my husband (since I am not even on the contract for buying the house) ASAP and let him know whats going on. (My husband is on the road currently).

It seems very clear they have no intentions of being out by the 1st, nor do they intend to pay April's rent. I've been looking into the laws but I am not sure if my husband can file for eviction because A. There is no lease (which usually makes it month to month) B. His name is not titled on the house yet, because he doesn't own it technically yet. C. If this even falls under renter/landlord eviction policy because I guess these people are technically sub-leasing this place from him.

I'm trying to avoid hiring a lawyer as I know we wont get any of the attorney fees back, even if the judge orders them to be paid by the defendants. Just trying to pinch pennies, but will definitely hire one if this seems like something I am unable to do on my own.

Edited to add: We live in Missouri

Any advice is welcomed!! Thank you!

 

[Just Blue]

I'm not sure what to call them.

Here's the situation:

Before my husband and I were married, he purchased a home from a man who lives in the same area. They have a contract, and my husband still owes about 26k on the house.

About 2 years ago, he was single and a truck driver and was never home. He agreed to let some people he knew (went to school with) rent his house for 450 a month. No contract, no lease (dumb, I know). The man he is buying the house from is aware and had no problem with it, just make sure house payment gets paid.

The current renters, or perhaps they are called sub-letters, have been great. Always paid rent on time.

February of this year, I found out I was pregnant and we decided we wanted to move back into this house and set up family. We informed the renters on February 21st, we would need them out by May 1st 2019. They were not happy (aww we love this house, don't wanna move) but agreed.

They paid March's rent just fine, and we made phone calls for them looking for a new place to live. We contacted landlords we knew and passed on the info to them, but something always was wrong with the homes.

April 1st, we reminded them (this has all been done via text) they needed to be out by May 1st. They responded Okay. Then we asked when they would be home so we could pick up rent, and it's been complete silence since.

We've texted, called, knocked on the door. Nothing. They completely stiffed us April's rent. Which to be honest I don't care, I just want them out.

I finally managed to get the husband to answer the door today, and told him I was just trying to make contact to see if they were going to be out by the 1st. He said "Yeah, I don't know, we don't have a place or anything yet". I told him he or his wife needs to contact my husband (since I am not even on the contract for buying the house) ASAP and let him know whats going on. (My husband is on the road currently).

It seems very clear they have no intentions of being out by the 1st, nor do they intend to pay April's rent. I've been looking into the laws but I am not sure if my husband can file for eviction because A. There is no lease (which usually makes it month to month) B. His name is not titled on the house yet, because he doesn't own it technically yet. C. If this even falls under renter/landlord eviction policy because I guess these people are technically sub-leasing this place from him.

I'm trying to avoid hiring a lawyer as I know we wont get any of the attorney fees back, even if the judge orders them to be paid by the defendants. Just trying to pinch pennies, but will definitely hire one if this seems like something I am unable to do on my own.

Edited to add: We live in Missouri

Any advice is welcomed!! Thank you!

Is this a rent to own situation? or owner financed? It would be better if you had your husband join so we can deal directly with him.

 

[justpikaname]

Is this a rent to own situation? or owner financed? It would be better if you had your husband join so we can deal directly with him.

Rent to own basically. Max (the guy he's buying it from) drafted up a contract and Josh (my husband) pays him monthly. There IS a contract, but there is no loan from a bank. I just went and looked and my husband has a Warranty Deed recorded in his name for the house. I would LOVE for him to join in, but he's currently driving to Ohio. Life of a trucker

Because his name is deeded on the Warranty Deed, I am assuming these people would not be sub-letters, but would be his renters without a lease. I've literally been sitting here all day researching this.

Also, apparently the renters DID pay rent to Max (the guy we are buying the house from) and just completely bypassed us. Now we are a month a head on the house payment because we paid him as well. So, we no longer have a lawsuit for rent and possessions. I think it would be an unlawful detainer type eviction.

I think we are just going to have to hire a lawyer. From what I gather, don't accept rent next month, hire a lawyer and take them to court. Which really sucks.

 

[LdiJ]

Rent to own basically. Max (the guy he's buying it from) drafted up a contract and Josh (my husband) pays him monthly. There IS a contract, but there is no loan from a bank. I just went and looked and my husband has a Warranty Deed recorded in his name for the house. I would LOVE for him to join in, but he's currently driving to Ohio. Life of a trucker

Because his name is deeded on the Warranty Deed, I am assuming these people would not be sub-letters, but would be his renters without a lease. I've literally been sitting here all day researching this.

Also, apparently the renters DID pay rent to Max (the guy we are buying the house from) and just completely bypassed us. Now we are a month a head on the house payment because we paid him as well. So, we no longer have a lawsuit for rent and possessions. I think it would be an unlawful detainer type eviction.

I think we are just going to have to hire a lawyer. From what I gather, don't accept rent next month, hire a lawyer and take them to court. Which really sucks.

Your husband has a recorded warranty deed. It was totally improper for them to pay Max. That was like not paying you all. They gave the money to someone who had no right to it. However, to avoid complications make sure that Max knows not to accept money from them either. You could do the eviction without an attorney. It would be better to have one, but it can be done without one.

 

[Just Blue]

How did you give notice that the tenancy was ending...Verbally? In writing? Text?


BTW: Congrat's on your Baby!!

 

[justpikaname]

How did you give notice that the tenancy was ending...Verbally? In writing? Text?


BTW: Congrat's on your Baby!!

Thank you!!

And it was all through text. On Feb 21st we texted them and said be out by May 1st (worded it nicely of course)

All dealings with them have been through text. I’m not sure if that holds up as “written” notice, but to me it seems like it would.

 

[justpikaname]

Your husband has a recorded warranty deed. It was totally improper for them to pay Max. That was like not paying you all. They gave the money to someone who had no right to it. However, to avoid complications make sure that Max knows not to accept money from them either. You could do the eviction without an attorney. It would be better to have one, but it can be done without one.

I called Max to verify and he said yes they paid him. I did tell him that WE would like to see the money first because the actual house payment is only 390 but we charge them 450. The 60 bucks goes towards repairs and insurance.

He apologized but no hard feelings. However, I told Max that if they do try and pay rent for May, to not accept it and call us. I don’t want to accept rent when we are trying to evict them because their month to month lease is up. Seems like we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. Also, because I want them to take that money and MOVE OUT!! Haha.

 

[FarmerJ]

Stop using text messages !!!!! use written on real paper communications sent via confirmed mail delivery OR certificate of mailing and let them try to argue to a judge they didn't get communication in letters from you when Judge sees your postal receipts will more than likely believe you. AS far as that text notice telling them to get out , I would not use that as notice , they haven't paid Aprils rent and that's what you would evict for. If you don't have a high level of confidence to do a eviction filing your self then find a local attorney who does a lot of evictions or has a flat fee to do one and just let the attorney handle it.

 

[adjusterjack]

My opinions for the two cents they are worth:

1 - Your husband owns the house.

2 - He is the landlord. They are his tenants.

3 - An unwritten month to month tenancy exists per MO statute 441.060.3.

https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2018/title-xxix/chapter-441/section-441.060/
4 - An unwritten month to month tenancy "may be terminated by either party thereto, or the party's agent, giving to the other party, or the party's agent, one month's notice, in writing, of the party's intention to terminate such tenancy."

5 - You provided more than one month's notice.

6 - While I agree with FarmerJ that texting is a horrible method of communication from an evidentiary standpoint but I don't believe that it will invalidate your notice.

According to the MO Court of Appeals:

" ...the content of text messages on a phone is more properly analogous to a personal letter and those rules of admissibility should be applied. The authenticity of a document cannot be assumed. Robin Farms, Inc. v. Bartholome, 989 S.W.2d 238, 252 (Mo.App. W.D.1999). The proponent of the document must offer proof that it is what it purports to be. Id. "The law is well settled that the mere fact that a letter purports to have been written and signed by one in authority to do so is, in itself, insufficient to establish the authenticity and genuineness of the letter." Id. Applying these rules to text messages, the proponent of such evidence must present some proof that the message were actually authored by the person who allegedly sent them. This should not be an unduly burdensome requirement and can be satisfied by circumstantial evidence. Proof could be in the form of admission by the author that he actually sent them, or simply an admission by the author that the number from which the message was received is his number and that he has control of that phone. Such proof could even be established by the person receiving the message testifying that he regularly receives text messages from the author from this number, or something distinctive about the text message indicating the author wrote it, such as a personalized signature. Once the evidence is admitted, it is still the province of the jury to determine its weight."

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=15705206240131954077&q=text+message+evidence&hl=en&as_sdt=4,26
That you got a response from the tenant is most helpful.

 

[justpikaname]

My opinions for the two cents they are worth:

1 - Your husband owns the house.

2 - He is the landlord. They are his tenants.

3 - An unwritten month to month tenancy exists per MO statute 441.060.3.

https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2018/title-xxix/chapter-441/section-441.060/
4 - An unwritten month to month tenancy "may be terminated by either party thereto, or the party's agent, giving to the other party, or the party's agent, one month's notice, in writing, of the party's intention to terminate such tenancy."

5 - You provided more than one month's notice.

6 - While I agree with FarmerJ that texting is a horrible method of communication from an evidentiary standpoint but I don't believe that it will invalidate your notice.

According to the MO Court of Appeals:



https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=15705206240131954077&q=text+message+evidence&hl=en&as_sdt=4,26
That you got a response from the tenant is most helpful.

Thank you!!

I’ve been searching to see if the texts would be sufficient, and while not ideal, it appears they will hold up.

I think when my husband gets home, we will spend sometime contacting an attorney. I feel like I could file it, but it would really suck to screw it up.

Not to mention, I can’t find the forms online that I would need. The only ones I can find are for Rent and Possesion.

 

[Just Blue]

Thank you!!

I’ve been searching to see if the texts would be sufficient, and while not ideal, it appears they will hold up.

I think when my husband gets home, we will spend sometime contacting an attorney. I feel like I could file it, but it would really suck to screw it up.

Not to mention, I can’t find the forms online that I would need. The only ones I can find are for Rent and Possesion.

Actually you could not file it...if your husband was not using an attorney (going pro se) HE would have to file.

 

[justpikaname]

Actually you could not file it...if your husband was not using an attorney (going pro se) HE would have to file.

You got me there! I pretty much run things because he’s gone all the time and it’s been a very big eye opener because I pretty much can’t be involved in any legal way, yet this is very much affecting my life!!

I have no doubt we will be able to solve it, and I haven’t given up hope that the renters are actually good people (I believe they truly are) and will cooperate and communicate with us so we CAN resolve this as cost effectively as possible!!

 

[adjusterjack]

I haven’t given up hope that the renters are actually good people (I believe they truly are) and will cooperate and communicate with us so we CAN resolve this as cost effectively as possible!!

Tenants will walk all over you if you let them.

Read the eviction statute:

https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2018/title-xxxvi/chapter-534/
If they are still there on May 1 serve them the 10 day demand for possession (over your husband's signature) by certified mail (no texting) and by regular mail and hand deliver a copy to them with a witness present who can later testify in court regarding delivery if necessary.

I suggest you attach a copy of your proposed eviction complaint and make it clear that you will file it with the court if they aren't out by the end of ten days.

You can re-create this form with your local court information or get one from your local court before the end of the month.

http://www.stlcitycircuitcourt.com/CourtForms/form101.pdf

 

[FarmerJ]

If your name is not on the title then have your husband sign a limited power off attorney that specifically grants you the right to represent him to address the eviction of the current tenants at XYZ address . It should list a expiration date say with in 90 days and he would have to have it notarized , make more than one copy so if he cant go to court and you want to keep a few copies on hand.

 

[Zigner]

If your name is not on the title then have your husband sign a limited power off attorney that specifically grants you the right to represent him to address the eviction of the current tenants at XYZ address . It should list a expiration date say with in 90 days and he would have to have it notarized , make more than one copy so if he cant go to court and you want to keep a few copies on hand.

A power of attorney does not allow one who is not an attorney to represent another in court.