Does the ordinance referenced below apply to weeds in a back yard? And can a zoning officer threaten to take you to court without first notifying you?

[Shadowbunny]

I’m someone who has seen a lot of injustice in my lifetime, so when I get a text that was anonymously sent in the very first contact and then a threat to go to court over uncut “grass” in my back yard (his words) when I asked who it was, I’m going to ask questions. Because of the extremely unprofessional manner this “code enforcer” reached out to me, I even doubted his authenticity at first and thought it was someone posing as an employee of the township.

This is a low income neighborhood and every other back yard is in worse condition than the previous one, and none have been targeted except me. In fact, the neighbor that I suspect turned me in has mounds of firewood directly on the ground that has rotted out over the years and is not only a true fire hazard, but a source for all manner of insects.

When I found this site, I figured I’d take a chance and ask for some advice to find out if what this “code enforcer” is doing is even legal? But I now see that was a mistake, because instead of getting advice, I’m having to deal with people like cbg and yourself.

Have a nice day…

You got advice. Solid advice, actually. But instead of being grateful, you stomp your feet and huff off in a swivet. And that's okay. Because when the city fines you for ignoring the citations you're most certainly going to get, we don't have to suffer the consequences. You do.

So you just go on with your bad self and tilt at a few more windmills.

 

[cbg]

Tell me, what law do you believe exists that makes it illegal for someone to point out an ordinance that you may be in violation of and warns you of a pending violation?

 

[LdiJ]

I asked two specific questions and although I've received some feedback on one, I've yet to receive any on the other. Care to make yourself useful and see if you can answer the questions? If not, then move along and find something better to do.

1. How does an ordinance that appears to specifically deal with conditions that are "injurious and hazardous" to the public, apply to a back yard that is not visible from the street, is not accessible to the public, and does not have anything that is injurious and hazardous on it?

Because if nothing else, it's a fire hazard and that is a hazard to everyone whether they have access to it or not.

2. Can an enforcement officer ignore proper procedures as outlined in the townships own ordinance § 65-3 (referenced above) and threaten to take you to court, without first sending the required code violation notice, advising you of your rights as outlined in the referenced ordinance?

Of course an officier cannot ignore proper procedure. However it is my suspicion, and I believe the suspicion of others here that the text message did NOT come from someone in code enforcement...and may in fact have come from your neighbor pretending to be someone in code enforcement.

THAT is why you need to stop stewing about it until you actually get letters or citations from code enforcement. Nevertheless, if you really are not cutting your grass as your should, you need to correct that sooner than later...because again, its a fire hazard.

 

[Julio2468]

Tell me, what law do you believe exists that makes it illegal for someone to point out an ordinance that you may be in violation of and warns you of a pending violation?

If you are accused of being in violation of an ordinance, when in fact you are not, then that is certainly not right and I’m trying to determine if it’s illegal. Especially when the person who reaches out to you did so in such an unprofessional manner and not in accordance set forth in the township’s own ordinances (65-3), making you doubt they were even a city official initially.

If my neighbor is trying to retaliate because I asked if she could do something about her barking dogs in the early morning/night hours and got a “friend/contact” at the township to “bend the rules” by citing an ordinance that is very vague and may not even apply in this instance, then that is not right ether and potentially illegal as well, especially when other yards in the neighborhood are in far worse condition.

As I said earlier. If someone sends you a copy of an ordinance that says you can’t keep nuclear waste on your property, that is written so vaguely that you can’t even determine if you are in fact in violation of that ordinance and they threaten to take you to court for violating that ordinance, are you not going to ask questions? Apparently you wouldn’t.

 

[LdiJ]

Ok, I give up. You have been given all of the information and advice that you can be given. We cannot help you any further.

 

[Julio2468]

Because if nothing else, it's a fire hazard and that is a hazard to everyone whether they have access to it or not.



Of course an officier cannot ignore proper procedure. However it is my suspicion, and I believe the suspicion of others here that the text message did NOT come from someone in code enforcement...and may in fact have come from your neighbor pretending to be someone in code enforcement.

THAT is why you need to stop stewing about it until you actually get letters or citations from code enforcement. Nevertheless, if you really are not cutting your grass as your should, you need to correct that sooner than later...because again, its a fire hazard.

Thank you for your advice. I have determined that Rick does in fact work for the township, because I was able to confirm that the number he used to text me is from the township. My suspicion now is that he may be “associated” with my neighbor in some way and is helping her retaliate because she did not like when I complained about her dogs.

As I stated earlier, none of the other properties in the neighborhood that are in far worse condition have been targeted. Also, there are acres upon acres of densely wooded area adjacent to all the properties on my side of the street belonging to the Township, which have far more “brush, weeds, dead or dying trees, stumps, roots, obnoxious growth, filth, garbage, trash and debris” that has not been maintained in years that pose a far greater fire threat. If the township was truly concerned with fire hazards, wouldn't they have taken care of their own land?

 

[Julio2468]

Ok, I give up. You have been given all of the information and advice that you can be given. We cannot help you any further.

What do you mean we? Is this not a public forum where anyone can post replies to the questions? Or are all you guys working together? Obviously I just found this site today, so I don’t really know how it works?

 

[LdiJ]

What do you mean we? Is this not a public forum where anyone can post replies to the questions? Or are all you guys working together? Obviously I just found this site today, so I don’t really know how it works?

This is a site with volunteers who answer people's questions. Sure pretty much anyone can register and answer questions but again, they would do so voluntarily.

 

[Just Blue]

What do you mean we? Is this not a public forum where anyone can post replies to the questions? Or are all you guys working together? Obviously I just found this site today, so I don’t really know how it works?

Read the TOS. That will explain how "it works".

 

[LdiJ]

I am going to try one last time.

Example, if 20 people are speeding and a cop only pulls over one of those 20 people, that is not a defense to the speeding ticket, because the person the cop pulled over WAS speeding.

Example, if 20 people in your neighborhood are not maintaining their properties correctly that does not mean that its a defense for you if you get cited for not properly maintaining your property, and they don't.

It might be a reason for you to complain to the city council and/or try to get new people elected who will make sure that the laws get applied more evenly, but its not a defense to you being in violation of the code.

 

[Julio2468]

I am going to try one last time.

Example, if 20 people are speeding and a cop only pulls over one of those 20 people, that is not a defense to the speeding ticket, because the person the cop pulled over WAS speeding.

Example, if 20 people in your neighborhood are not maintaining their properties correctly that does not mean that its a defense for you if you get cited for not properly maintaining your property, and they don't.

It might be a reason for you to complain to the city council and/or try to get new people elected who will make sure that the laws get applied more evenly, but its not a defense to you being in violation of the code.

I understand your examples, but my question is…

Example: If you get pulled over for “speeding” when in fact you were NOT speeding. (pulled over for doing 20 in a 25 mph zone, and the officer that pulled you over is being vague about how he determined your speed, is that not unjust/illegal?

Example: If all the other properties have not been cited, because in fact the township does not have a specific ordinance that states that grass/weeds need to be over a certain height to be in violation, and I am being threatened by someone who did not follow proper procedures and quoted an ordinance (65-1) that does not even specify at what height the grass/weeds should be to be considered a violation and cites conditions that you don’t appear to be in violation of, is that not also unjust/illegal?

That's how I ended up on this site. The ordinance that I am said to be in violation of is so vague, that I can't even determine if any violation is actually happening. My grass/weeds are under 12" high at most and there is a 10ft concrete patio between the lawn and the property.

 

[Just Blue]

I understand your examples, but my question is…

Example: If you get pulled over for “speeding” when in fact you were NOT speeding. (pulled over for doing 20 in a 25 mph zone, and the officer that pulled you over is being vague about how he determined your speed, is that not unjust/illegal?

Example: If all the other properties have not been cited, because in fact the township does not have a specific ordinance that states that grass/weeds need to be over a certain height to be in violation, and I am being threatened by someone who did not follow proper procedures and quoted an ordinance (65-1) that does not even specify at what height the grass/weeds should be to be considered a violation and cites conditions that you don’t appear to be in violation of, is that not also unjust/illegal?

That's how I ended up on this site. The ordinance that I am said to be in violation of is so vague, that I can't even determine if any violation is actually happening. My grass/weeds are under 12" high at most and there is a 10ft concrete patio between the lawn and the property.

How do you know that none of your neighbors have been warned/cited?

 

[cbg]

It may or may not be unjust. It MAY be illegal but it is not automatically illegal - it is just as likely that it is legal. It the cop has a valid reason to pull you over or to believe that you were speeding, it is not illegal even if it MAY BE (not, IS) be unjust. It is not even automatically illegal if you are eventually proven to not have been speeding at all.

We completely understand that the answer you wanted was, "No, he can't do that, and you don't have to pay any attention - it the other owner isn't following the regulations you needn't either".

The problem is, that's not the legally correct answer and it is nowhere near that simple.

 

[Julio2468]

How do you know that none of your neighbors have been warned/cited?

That's a good point. I don't... What I do know is that they are either not being cited or they have been accumulating penalties for years. Where I only stopped maintaining my back yard about two months ago (reason stated in an earlier post)

 

[FarmerJ]

I suggest you split up your concerns, first , your
angry with the lady upstairs , if she wont pay you for the damage her plumbing has done to your unit , SUE her, and keep suing her each time there is more damage and take the time to learn how to place a lien on her property and if your able to , DO IT and bide your time. AS to neighboring properties you say are worse , well then make complaints about each and every one of those properties , City not maintaining its land Learn your city council meeting dates and find out what you have to do to be able to speak to the city council during a meeting and in the meeting ask then what their plans are to clean up the land they own to the same standard ordinance number XYz that your supposed to follow, Have someone record your asking in public. AS to your shared yards condition if you take care of it then the city will be off your back. You get a lot farther if you split up these issues and who knows maybe suing the neighbor for her damages may lead to her paying up if she values having a clean title to her unit. Lastly your city inspections records ARE public meaning you can go there with a list of addresses and find out if those properties had ever been cited for not maintaining their lots.