How do we know if a trust/will exists?

[confu]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

My grandmother passed away very recently. She took care of me after my mom (her daughter) died when I was very young. She had 3 kids total.

Her daughter (my aunt) is wanting Power of Attorney and is going to try and get it. My grandmother wasn't wealthy but did have a savings, life insurance, and I don't know what else. She was very close to me and my son and had mentioned that she would leave him something. She didn't have a will (that I know of). She was very independent and never wanted to give my aunt PoA because she didn't want my aunt to put her in a nursing home.

How do I go about finding out if a trust exists for my son?

Is a PoA the same an estate administrator? If someone doesn't own property or many assets, is there a need for an estate administrator?

Sorry for the questions, but I really am clueless on how to go about finding out this information. My aunt is very controlling and cheap (wanted to go about getting my grandmother buried in the cheapest way possible and I had to put my foot down and tell her that my grandmother deserves so much more.

Thank you

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

My grandmother passed away very recently. She took care of me after my mom (her daughter) died when I was very young. She had 3 kids total.

Her daughter (my aunt) is wanting Power of Attorney and is going to try and get it. My grandmother wasn't wealthy but did have a savings, life insurance, and I don't know what else. She was very close to me and my son and had mentioned that she would leave him something. She didn't have a will (that I know of). She was very independent and never wanted to give my aunt PoA because she didn't want my aunt to put her in a nursing home.

How do I go about finding out if a trust exists for my son?

Is a PoA the same an estate administrator? If someone doesn't own property or many assets, is there a need for an estate administrator?

Sorry for the questions, but I really am clueless on how to go about finding out this information. My aunt is very controlling and cheap (wanted to go about getting my grandmother buried in the cheapest way possible and I had to put my foot down and tell her that my grandmother deserves so much more.

Thank you

First, you cannot get a POA for someone who is already deceased. A POA ceases upon the death of someone. Therefore, I have to assume that what your aunt wants is to be the executor or representative of her estate.

Now, its probable that your grandmother had a beneficiary for her life insurance. Therefore her life insurance would pass outside of her estate and would go only to the beneficiary. Her bank account might also have a beneficiary.

 

[adjusterjack]

Her daughter (my aunt) is wanting Power of Attorney and is going to try and get it.

There is no way anybody can get Power of Attorney from a dead person.

She was very close to me and my son and had mentioned that she would leave him something.

Meaningless and unenforceable.

She didn't have a will (that I know of).

Then she died intestate and the NJ laws of intestate succession apply.

See chart at:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/intestate-succession-new-jersey.html

How do I go about finding out if a trust exists for my son?

A trust is a private contract. You'll never know it exists until the trustee of the trust comes to you and says that there is one and you and/or your son are named in it.

Although there is one way of getting a lead on it. If grandma owned a home, check the deed. If she had a trust, the home would likely be owned by the trust. If it was in her own name, then she probably doesn't have a trust.

Is a PoA the same an estate administrator?

No, it's different. But it estate administrator or representative that your aunt would have to be appointed as by the court.

If someone doesn't own property or many assets, is there a need for an estate administrator?

Depends. Everybody owns something, even if it's just household goods or a bit of money in the bank, a car, whatever. Some estates qualify for informal administration.

I really am clueless on how to go about finding out this information. My aunt is very controlling and cheap (wanted to go about getting my grandmother buried in the cheapest way possible and I had to put my foot down and tell her that my grandmother deserves so much more.

Start with your grandmother's local probate court (I think they are called surrogate courts in NJ) and see if probate has been opened. If it has, it's public record and you can get a copy of everything in it and come back to this thread for additional conversation.

Take a certified copy of the death certificate with you. If probate hasn't been opened, you can apply to open it and ask to be appointed representative of the estate. The clerk will probably be able to give you a forms and instructions kit.

 

[confu]

First, you cannot get a POA for someone who is already deceased. A POA ceases upon the death of someone. Therefore, I have to assume that what your aunt wants is to be the executor or representative of her estate.

Now, its probable that your grandmother had a beneficiary for her life insurance. Therefore her life insurance would pass outside of her estate and would go only to the beneficiary. Her bank account might also have a beneficiary.

Thanks. My aunt was the one who said that she needs to go to surrogate court for PoA. She told me that she "couldn't do anything" until she gets a copy of the death certificate. I left all of this up to her doing because as I said, she's very controlling and I'm clueless as to what to do or how to handle any of this.

How do I go about finding out who her beneficiary for her life insurance is? If it's my aunt, then that is fine. Does this mean by aunt will receive the entire life insurance policy? My aunt so far has paid for most funeral expenses, even though in the cheapest manner possible. She also claimed to "can't do anything because I don't have the death certificate".

Do banks/life insurance disclose this information or only to beneficiaries?

thanks

 

[confu]

Start with your grandmother's local probate court (I think they are called surrogate courts in NJ) and see if probate has been opened. If it has, it's public record and you can get a copy of everything in it and come back to this thread for additional conversation.

does this happen automatically if no one else has in x amt of time (probate has been opened)? or does someone have to do it (my aunt said she was going there tomorrow). My aunt mentioned that she may have to have me and my uncle sign off on something.

A trust is a private contract. You'll never know it exists until the trustee of the trust comes to you and says that there is one and you and/or your son are named in it.

Although there is one way of getting a lead on it. If grandma owned a home, check the deed. If she had a trust, the home would likely be owned by the trust. If it was in her own name, then she probably doesn't have a trust.

Sorry for my ignorance. My grandmother didn't own a home. Would a trust be the same as a beneficiary i.e the bank account in which my son may or may not be left something? Would the trust/beneficiary - if it was my aunt, be the person to come to me and tell me this?

thanks again.

This board is truly helpful!!!

 

[adjusterjack]

My aunt was the one who said that she needs to go to surrogate court for PoA.

Then she means being appointed representative of the estate.

She told me that she "couldn't do anything" until she gets a copy of the death certificate.

She will need certified copies of the death certificate. The funeral homes generally get them for you as part of the service. Sometime they give you five. Sometimes you can get more by paying a small fee. Often takes about a week to 10 days to get them. Contact the funeral home and find out. If you want to stay in the loop, order 10 certified copies, go in and get them, give 5 to your aunt.

I left all of this up to her doing because as I said, she's very controlling

Well, how you react to that is your business.

I'm clueless as to what to do or how to handle any of this.

Then it's a good thing you are here. We can clue you in on a lot of things.

How do I go about finding out who her beneficiary for her life insurance is? If it's my aunt, then that is fine. Does this mean by aunt will receive the entire life insurance policy?

You find out who the beneficiary is by looking inside the policy. All life insurance policies contain a copy of the application. It becomes part of the contract when the policy is issued. The application will show the name of the beneficiary if one was designated. The life insurance company is only going to pay the listed beneficiary. If that's your aunt, so be it. If other beneficiaries are listed the life insurance company won't pay out without the signatures of those beneficiaries on claim forms. You can explain that you learned that from an insurance pro when you ask to see the policy.

She also claimed to "can't do anything because I don't have the death certificate".

That's true. She will need to file the death certificate with the probate court in order to get her appointment. The best she can do at this point is get the forms and instructions. So can you, and I suggest you do, so that you are aware of the step by step requirements.

Do banks/life insurance disclose this information or only to beneficiaries?

Only to beneficiaries and only to those appointed by the court as representatives of the estate.

 

[adjusterjack]

does this happen automatically if no one else has in x amt of time (probate has been opened)? or does someone have to do it (my aunt said she was going there tomorrow). My aunt mentioned that she may have to have me and my uncle sign off on something.

No, it doesn't happen automatically. Somebody has to go to the court house to get this started.

Uncle? Then your grandmother had two children? Brother and Sister? If so, then they likely will split the estate 50/50 in the absence of a will or trust.

Sorry for my ignorance. My grandmother didn't own a home. Would a trust be the same as a beneficiary i.e the bank account in which my son may or may not be left something? Would the trust/beneficiary - if it was my aunt, be the person to come to me and tell me this?

A trust has a "maker" (the deceased), one or more trustees who administer the terms of the trust (same duties as representative of the estate), and one or more beneficiaries (which can also be one or more of the trustees as well as anybody else favored by the "maker" of the trust).

If a bank account was included in the trust, the bank account's name would be the name of the trust.

If there was a trust the trust would have to list your son by name as a beneficiary and specify what he gets and how and when he gets it.

With no trust and no will, grandma's children split everything by law and you and your son get nothing.

 

[confu]

No, it doesn't happen automatically. Somebody has to go to the court house to get this started.

Uncle? Then your grandmother had two children? Brother and Sister? If so, then they likely will split the estate 50/50 in the absence of a will or trust.



A trust has a "maker" (the deceased), one or more trustees who administer the terms of the trust (same duties as representative of the estate), and one or more beneficiaries (which can also be one or more of the trustees as well as anybody else favored by the "maker" of the trust).

If a bank account was included in the trust, the bank account's name would be the name of the trust.

If there was a trust the trust would have to list your son by name as a beneficiary and specify what he gets and how and when he gets it.

With no trust and no will, grandma's children split everything by law and you and your son get nothing.

Yes, she had 3 children. My aunt, my uncle, my mother (deceased) so then that would be me, correct?

 

[confu]

Then she means being appointed representative of the estate.



She will need certified copies of the death certificate. The funeral homes generally get them for you as part of the service. Sometime they give you five. Sometimes you can get more by paying a small fee. Often takes about a week to 10 days to get them. Contact the funeral home and find out. If you want to stay in the loop, order 10 certified copies, go in and get them, give 5 to your aunt.



Well, how you react to that is your business.



Then it's a good thing you are here. We can clue you in on a lot of things.



You find out who the beneficiary is by looking inside the policy. All life insurance policies contain a copy of the application. It becomes part of the contract when the policy is issued. The application will show the name of the beneficiary if one was designated. The life insurance company is only going to pay the listed beneficiary. If that's your aunt, so be it. If other beneficiaries are listed the life insurance company won't pay out without the signatures of those beneficiaries on claim forms. You can explain that you learned that from an insurance pro when you ask to see the policy.



That's true. She will need to file the death certificate with the probate court in order to get her appointment. The best she can do at this point is get the forms and instructions. So can you, and I suggest you do, so that you are aware of the step by step requirements.



Only to beneficiaries and only to those appointed by the court as representatives of the estate.

You are so helpful, thank you! This is indeed what I will tell her. I just want what my grandmother wanted. Nothing more. I just don't want my aunt to take advantage of her death either.

Thanks so much!!

 

[LdiJ]

does this happen automatically if no one else has in x amt of time (probate has been opened)? or does someone have to do it (my aunt said she was going there tomorrow). My aunt mentioned that she may have to have me and my uncle sign off on something.

Be very careful about signing off on anything. You could accidentally sign away your rights if you are not careful.

Sorry for my ignorance. My grandmother didn't own a home. Would a trust be the same as a beneficiary i.e the bank account in which my son may or may not be left something? Would the trust/beneficiary - if it was my aunt, be the person to come to me and tell me this?

thanks again.

This board is truly helpful!!!

An estate has an executor or a representative, with beneficiaries who inherit the assets of the estate. Sometimes an executor or representative is also a beneficiary.

A Trust has a trustee, with beneficiaries who receive the assets of the trust. A trustee can also be a beneficiary.

Your aunt wishes to be "in charge" therefore she wants to be the executor or representative of the estate. Its unlikely that there is a trust because someone who has been appointed as trustee would know ahead of time.

Making someone a beneficiary of a life insurance police or a bank account has nothing to do with a trust, unless its the trust who has been named as the beneficiary of either item.

 

[adjusterjack]

Yes, she had 3 children. My aunt, my uncle, my mother (deceased) so then that would be me, correct?

Not sure. Did your grandmother die before your mother died, or after your mother died?

 

[confu]

Not sure. Did your grandmother die before your mother died, or after your mother died?

/ab
My mom died when I was a teen and my grandmother (who just passed away) took care of me, making sure I always had food (mom was a drug abuser since I was born). She was like a Mom to me. My grandmother just passed away last week.

 

[adjusterjack]

/ab
My mom died when I was a teen and my grandmother (who just passed away) took care of me, making sure I always had food (mom was a drug abuser since I was born). She was like a Mom to me. My grandmother just passed away last week.

Then yes, I think you do get to share the estate with your Aunt and Uncle.

Here are the statutes:

3B:5-4. Intestate shares of heirs other than surviving spouse or domestic partner.
Any part of the intestate estate not passing to the decedent's surviving spouse or domestic partner under N.J.S.3B:5-3, or the entire intestate estate if there is no surviving spouse or domestic partner, passes in the following order to the individuals designated below who survive the decedent:
a.To the decedent's descendants by representation;

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2016/title-3b/section-3b-5-4/

The next one defines "representation."

3B:5-6 Determining representation.
3B:5-6. a. As used in this section:
(1)"Deceased descendant," "deceased parent," or "deceased grandparent" means a descendant, parent or grandparent who either predeceased the decedent or is deemed to have predeceased the decedent under N.J.S.3B:5-1.
(2)"Surviving descendant" means a descendant who neither predeceased the decedent nor is deemed to have predeceased the decedent under N.J.S.3B:5-1.
b.If, under N.J.S.3B:5-4, a decedent's intestate estate or part thereof passes "by representation" to the decedent's descendants, the estate or part thereof is divided into as many equal shares as there are: (1) surviving descendants in the generation nearest to the decedent which contains one or more surviving descendants; and (2) deceased descendants in the same generation who left surviving descendants, if any. Each surviving descendant in the nearest generation is allocated one share. The remaining shares, if any, are combined and then divided in the same manner among the surviving descendants of the deceased descendants as if the surviving descendants who were allocated a share and their surviving descendants had predeceased the decedent.
c.If, under section c. or d. of N.J.S.3B:5-4, a decedent's intestate estate or a part thereof passes "by representation" to the descendants of the decedent's deceased parents or either of them or to the descendants of the decedent's deceased paternal or maternal grandparents or either of them, the estate or part thereof is divided into as many equal shares as there are: (1) surviving descendants in the generation nearest the deceased parents or either of them, or the deceased grandparents or either of them, that contains one or more surviving descendants; and (2) deceased descendants in the same generation who left surviving descendants, if any. Each surviving descendant in the nearest generation is allocated one share. The remaining shares, if any, are combined and then divided in the same manner among the surviving descendants of the deceased descendants as if the surviving descendants who were allocated a share, and their surviving descendants had predeceased the decedent.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2016/title-3b/section-3b-5-6/

Don't ask me to translate that into English. LOL. I think the gist is that you share with your Aunt and Uncle. I just wanted you to have the citations in case your Aunt tries to pull a fast one on you.

PS: You've got the right (as an heir) to look over her shoulder and monitor everything she does in administering the estate. And if she's not nice about keeping you in the loop you have the right to sic an attorney on her.

 

[HRZ]

BTW , you uncle probably has equal priority to seek to serve as administrator...and if he is more likely to do things right....push him to apply

 

[Shadowbunny]

.... My aunt so far has paid for most funeral expenses, even though in the cheapest manner possible. She also claimed to "can't do anything because I don't have the death certificate".

Don't get hung up on the how much one pays for a funeral. There is no correlation between how much a decedent was loved and how much was spent on a fancy box that is never going to be seen again after it's lowered into the ground.

And keep in mind: funerals are expensive. Caskets are ridiculously expensive, unless you've done your shopping beforehand. So don't add more animosity to the situation based on how much is spent on the funeral.