What can I do? Violating an Order of Protection

[MomInMO76]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in MO, Case is in AZ

Quick backstory. My ex lives in AZ, I live in MO. He’s been about 98% absent from my son’s life since birth. There was a brief period of time in late 2013-2014 where he was involved. My son spent six weeks in his home in AZ. During that time, my son was physically (slapped in the face) and verbally abused by his stepmother.

Anyway, since this situation came to light, things between my ex and I have become extremely strained. He obviously insists no abuse happened, but then tells me “even if she did”, slapping a child in the face isn’t abuse. I did speak with a custody attorney in MO, and she confirmed that I have default custody. His dad has never requested visitation or custody through the courts. The attorney told me I am well within my rights to deny visitation to my son’s stepmother, and that HE has no right to demand that she be included. But that’s basically what has occurred since 2014. He’s not seen his son because he refuses to do so if she can’t be included. He has done everything he can for almost 3 years now to bully me into agreeing to her having access to my son. I have stood my ground, and made it clear HE has all the access he wants.

Apparently sometime in May 2016, they tried a new tactic. They went to their county courthouse and he requested an Order of Protection against me, while she requested an Injunction against Harrassment. Keep in mind, I live 1500 miles from them. I pose NO physical threat at all. I had not had ANY contact with her since November 2014! He had informed me at one point that his wife monitors all his emails. I’ve always contacted him in writing for documentation purposes, so I began to text him vs email because that was A)the only way I knew HE was getting it and B) the only way I knew for a fact that it was HIM responding. The order of protection stated that I could only contact him via email concerning our son (which is the only reason I’ve ever contacted him).

Apparently they did not know my address when filing, and gave some random address , so I did not get served until February 7th, 2017. Ironically enough, the same day I got served, he and I had been in another disagreement, and he had literally cursed me out over the phone for 30 seconds, calling me every name in the book, telling me I deserved everything I had coming to me, etc. Five minutes after that call, I pull into my driveway where the officer was waiting to serve me. Since I was still trying to resolve a CS dispute, I texted him 3-4 more times after I got served between Feb 7th and early March. At the end of March, I received a notification from Goodyear AZ court that I am being charged with violating the order, with 3 of the charges being tagged with a Domestic Violence indicator.

My ex is FULLY aware that I do not have the financial means to address this without pleading guilty, which I have been advised NOT to do by both the custody attorney I spoke to and an attorney in AZ that I spoke with to NOT plead guilty because he could use that DV indicator to attempt to gain custody. I have tried legal aid in AZ, they never follow through. Attorneys are quoting me anywhere from $3-4K. The MO custody attorney suggested that I have my ex pay all my legal expenses, but I still have to put up some money. I DO NOT HAVE the financial means to hire an attorney OR travel to AZ to try to handle it on my own. Even without money being an issue, my son will be in school, and I have no one to care for him if I were to go, and I don’t want him there for obvious reasons.

They offered a plea my mail since I’m out of state, but that option is ONLY available if I plead guilty. The plea agreement offered to drop 2 of the 4 charges (one DV indicator charge still remaining), DV training class and a large fine. They refused my request for a public defender stating I’m ineligible because they aren’t seeking jail time or probation. So I feel like asking, WHY even bother? What exactly ARE they seeking?

How does someone defend themselves when they don’t even live in the state they are being charged in and they don’t have the means to travel?

 

[HighwayMan]

If you are charged with a crime you need an attorney - an Internet forum won't be of much use.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in MO, Case is in AZ

Quick backstory. My ex lives in AZ, I live in MO. HeÂ’s been about 98% absent from my sonÂ’s life since birth. There was a brief period of time in late 2013-2014 where he was involved. My son spent six weeks in his home in AZ. During that time, my son was physically (slapped in the face) and verbally abused by his stepmother.

Anyway, since this situation came to light, things between my ex and I have become extremely strained. He obvious iously insists no abuse happened, but then tells me “even if she did”, slapping a child in the face isn’t abuse. I did speak with a custody attorney in MO, and she confirmed that I have default custody. His dad has never requested visitation or custody through the courts. The attorney told me I am well within my rights to deny visitation to my son’s stepmother, and that HE has no right to demand that she be included. But that’s basically what has occurred since 2014. He’s not seen his son because he refuses to do so if she can’t be included. He has done everything he can for almost 3 years now to bully me into agreeing to her having access to my son. I have stood my ground, and made it clear HE has all the access he wants.

Apparently sometime in May 2016, they tried a new tactic. They went to their county courthouse and he requested an Order of Protection against me, while she requested an Injunction against Harrassment. Keep in mind, I live 1500 miles from them. I pose NO physical threat at all. I had not had ANY contact with her since November 2014! He had informed me at one point that his wife monitors all his emails. IÂ’ve always contacted him in writing for documentation purposes, so I began to text him vs email because that was A)the only way I knew HE was getting it and B) the only way I knew for a fact that it was HIM responding. The order of protection stated that I could only contact him via email concerning our son (which is the only reason IÂ’ve ever contacted him).

Apparently they did not know my address when filing, and gave some random address , so I did not get served until February 7th, 2017. Ironically enough, the same day I got served, he and I had been in another disagreement, and he had literally cursed me out over the phone for 30 seconds, calling me every name in the book, telling me I deserved everything I had coming to me, etc. Five minutes after that call, I pull into my driveway where the officer was waiting to serve me. Since I was still trying to resolve a CS dispute, I texted him 3-4 more times after I got served between Feb 7th and early March. At the end of March, I received a notification from Goodyear AZ court that I am being charged with violating the order, with 3 of the charges being tagged with a Domestic Violence indicator.

My ex is FULLY aware that I do not have the financial means to address this without pleading guilty, which I have been advised NOT to do by both the custody attorney I spoke to and an attorney in AZ that I spoke with to NOT plead guilty because he could use that DV indicator to attempt to gain custody. I have tried legal aid in AZ, they never follow through. Attorneys are quoting me anywhere from $3-4K. The MO custody attorney suggested that I have my ex pay all my legal expenses, but I still have to put up some money. I DO NOT HAVE the financial means to hire an attorney OR travel to AZ to try to handle it on my own. Even without money being an issue, my son will be in school, and I have no one to care for him if I were to go, and I donÂ’t want him there for obvious reasons.

They offered a plea my mail since IÂ’m out of state, but that option is ONLY available if I plead guilty. The plea agreement offered to drop 2 of the 4 charges (one DV indicator charge still remaining), DV training class and a large fine. They refused my request for a public defender stating IÂ’m ineligible because they arenÂ’t seeking jail time or probation. So I feel like asking, WHY even bother? What exactly ARE they seeking?

How does someone defend themselves when they donÂ’t even live in the state they are being charged in and they donÂ’t have the means to travel?

You potentially can defend yourself telephonically - but this is at the judge's discretion and the request must be presented to the court well in advance of the hearing.

Arizona Rules of Family Law Procedure Rule 8:
https://govt.westlaw.com/azrules/Document/NC5CC2490717A11DAA16E8D4AC7636430?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

To start, I recommend you have an attorney in Missouri assist you in setting up the telephonic hearing and the Missouri attorney could handle the order of protection and violations, although you could need an attorney in Arizona eventually. The Missouri attorney can help in the beginning.

It may be difficult to get the order of protection dismissed but it could be more likely that the violations are dismissed, based on what you have said. But I don't think you will have an easy time doing this on your own.

It could also be possible, if the order is not dismissed, to have the order modified - perhaps to a mutual order, where ALL parties are restrained and restricted (no one can violate the terms, no one can harass anyone else). The advantage to a mutual order is that no one can use the order as a weapon against the other in any child custody or visitation battle.

Good luck.

 

[MomInMO76]

re: thank you and a few updates

You potentially can defend yourself telephonically - but this is at the judge's discretion and the request must be presented to the court well in advance of the hearing.

Arizona Rules of Family Law Procedure Rule 8:
https://govt.westlaw.com/azrules/Document/NC5CC2490717A11DAA16E8D4AC7636430?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

To start, I recommend you have an attorney in Missouri assist you in setting up the telephonic hearing and the Missouri attorney could handle the order of protection and violations, although you could need an attorney in Arizona eventually. The Missouri attorney can help in the beginning.

It may be difficult to get the order of protection dismissed but it could be more likely that the violations are dismissed, based on what you have said. But I don't think you will have an easy time doing this on your own.

It could also be possible, if the order is not dismissed, to have the order modified - perhaps to a mutual order, where ALL parties are restrained and restricted (no one can violate the terms, no one can harass anyone else). The advantage to a mutual order is that no one can use the order as a weapon against the other in any child custody or visitation battle.

Good luck.

I want to thank you for this information. I know the attorney in AZ that I had contacted told me I could most likely MODIFY the order of protection to allow for texts vs email since my ex has stated that his wife screens the emails, and since I have no way of knowing if he is even receiving them. She did explain WHY courts prefer emails vs texts, but stated I have a valid reason for preferring that form of communication.

So, I had requested a public defender due to my financial situation. The court denied my request, due to the fact they aren't requesting jail time or probation and they set a pretrial conference for 9/6/17. I was told I would have to submit a written request to appear telephonically. I faxed that last week. Goodyear does have an online case search so I can see updates before I receive communication from them via mail. As of yesterday, there was a flurry of activity on my case...terms such as motion filed by D1 (me), motion approved D1, motion denied P1 (the state), and then a non jury trial set for 9/22/2017. I called the court to get clarification for what all of this means, and as usual, they told me NOTHING. I specifically asked what motions were denied/approved, and she just repeated "you have a non jury trial set for 9/22".

I have never dealt with a court that was so unwilling to give me information. I am going into this blind because I cannot afford an attorney (I'm not even kidding on this, I behind on bills, had my car repo'd, facing an eviction all due to my ex's refusal to pay as agreed, and because I had to add my son to my health insurance because my ex got laid off and let the health insurance lapse) and they refused to give me a public defender.

 

[LdiJ]

I want to thank you for this information. I know the attorney in AZ that I had contacted told me I could most likely MODIFY the order of protection to allow for texts vs email since my ex has stated that his wife screens the emails, and since I have no way of knowing if he is even receiving them. She did explain WHY courts prefer emails vs texts, but stated I have a valid reason for preferring that form of communication.

So, I had requested a public defender due to my financial situation. The court denied my request, due to the fact they aren't requesting jail time or probation and they set a pretrial conference for 9/6/17. I was told I would have to submit a written request to appear telephonically. I faxed that last week. Goodyear does have an online case search so I can see updates before I receive communication from them via mail. As of yesterday, there was a flurry of activity on my case...terms such as motion filed by D1 (me), motion approved D1, motion denied P1 (the state), and then a non jury trial set for 9/22/2017. I called the court to get clarification for what all of this means, and as usual, they told me NOTHING. I specifically asked what motions were denied/approved, and she just repeated "you have a non jury trial set for 9/22".

I have never dealt with a court that was so unwilling to give me information. I am going into this blind because I cannot afford an attorney (I'm not even kidding on this, I behind on bills, had my car repo'd, facing an eviction all due to my ex's refusal to pay as agreed, and because I had to add my son to my health insurance because my ex got laid off and let the health insurance lapse) and they refused to give me a public defender.

Is there any family that you could borrow money from to either get an attorney or get to AZ yourself to defend yourself? They never should have been given the Order of Protection in the first place since you live 1500 miles away and were never served until 2017, but if you do not show up either in person or represented by an attorney you are going to end up with a violation on your record with a DV indicator. You do NOT want that.

 

[quincy]

I want to thank you for this information. I know the attorney in AZ that I had contacted told me I could most likely MODIFY the order of protection to allow for texts vs email since my ex has stated that his wife screens the emails, and since I have no way of knowing if he is even receiving them. She did explain WHY courts prefer emails vs texts, but stated I have a valid reason for preferring that form of communication.

So, I had requested a public defender due to my financial situation. The court denied my request, due to the fact they aren't requesting jail time or probation and they set a pretrial conference for 9/6/17. I was told I would have to submit a written request to appear telephonically. I faxed that last week. Goodyear does have an online case search so I can see updates before I receive communication from them via mail. As of yesterday, there was a flurry of activity on my case...terms such as motion filed by D1 (me), motion approved D1, motion denied P1 (the state), and then a non jury trial set for 9/22/2017. I called the court to get clarification for what all of this means, and as usual, they told me NOTHING. I specifically asked what motions were denied/approved, and she just repeated "you have a non jury trial set for 9/22".

I have never dealt with a court that was so unwilling to give me information. I am going into this blind because I cannot afford an attorney (I'm not even kidding on this, I behind on bills, had my car repo'd, facing an eviction all due to my ex's refusal to pay as agreed, and because I had to add my son to my health insurance because my ex got laid off and let the health insurance lapse) and they refused to give me a public defender.

It appears that the court approved your motion for a telephonic hearing. If so, you should hear from the court soon. It is too bad the court clerk is not more helpful.

I think it is a mistake for you to move ahead without an attorney but I understand the costs involved.

 

[Ohiogal]

I want to thank you for this information. I know the attorney in AZ that I had contacted told me I could most likely MODIFY the order of protection to allow for texts vs email since my ex has stated that his wife screens the emails, and since I have no way of knowing if he is even receiving them. She did explain WHY courts prefer emails vs texts, but stated I have a valid reason for preferring that form of communication.

So, I had requested a public defender due to my financial situation. The court denied my request, due to the fact they aren't requesting jail time or probation and they set a pretrial conference for 9/6/17. I was told I would have to submit a written request to appear telephonically. I faxed that last week. Goodyear does have an online case search so I can see updates before I receive communication from them via mail. As of yesterday, there was a flurry of activity on my case...terms such as motion filed by D1 (me), motion approved D1, motion denied P1 (the state), and then a non jury trial set for 9/22/2017. I called the court to get clarification for what all of this means, and as usual, they told me NOTHING. I specifically asked what motions were denied/approved, and she just repeated "you have a non jury trial set for 9/22".

I have never dealt with a court that was so unwilling to give me information. I am going into this blind because I cannot afford an attorney (I'm not even kidding on this, I behind on bills, had my car repo'd, facing an eviction all due to my ex's refusal to pay as agreed, and because I had to add my son to my health insurance because my ex got laid off and let the health insurance lapse) and they refused to give me a public defender.

The court cannot tell you anything. You have to educate yourself. The motion filed by you was probably the motion to appear telephonically which they MIGHT have approved. You need to find out what the state has filed requesting and you have a trial set for 9/22 in front of the judge. The court will NOT tell you anything. They can't. And you are not entitled to a public defender unless you are facing 6 months in jail. There are minimums that were set for appointed counsel.

 

[Ohiogal]

It appears that the court approved your motion for a telephonic hearing. If so, you should hear from the court soon. It is too bad the court clerk is not more helpful.

I think it is a mistake for you to move ahead without an attorney but I understand the costs involved.

The clerk is not allowed to be more helpful.

 

[quincy]

The clerk is not allowed to be more helpful.

The clerk cannot offer legal advice. The clerk can provide court information (e.g, date and time, whether the hearing scheduled is telephonic).

I agree that, if MomInMo cannot afford an attorney or find low cost legal assistance in her area, she will need to educate herself. I think that is why she came to this forum.

 

[Ohiogal]

The clerk cannot offer legal advice. The clerk can provide court information (e.g, date and time, whether the hearing scheduled is telephonic).

I agree that, if MomInMo cannot afford an attorney or find low cost legal assistance in her area, she will need to educate herself. I think that is why she came to this forum.

She needs to give us more information however about what the motions were that were filed (the state motion) and what was denied. The clerk did give her information by stating she has a trial.

 

[quincy]

She needs to give us more information however about what the motions were that were filed (the state motion) and what was denied. The clerk did give her information by stating she has a trial.

I agree that more information would be helpful.

 

[MomInMO76]

re:

It appears that the court approved your motion for a telephonic hearing. If so, you should hear from the court soon. It is too bad the court clerk is not more helpful.

I think it is a mistake for you to move ahead without an attorney but I understand the costs involved.

They denied my request to appear at the pretrial conference via telephone. The reason cited was that I was given the opportunity to plead guilty by mail. No one explained to me what I would be pleading guilty TO, therefore I had no intentions of doing so. I refused to be bulldozed into a guilty plea.

I do not understand the denial of a public defender. If they will not allow me to appear by phone, I should at least have the option to have a lawyer to attend on my behalf. Or at least SOMEONE who can explain all this to me since the court clerks won't. I do understand the court clerks are limited and can't give out legal advice, but they can't even explain the charges, motions, etc?

 

[MomInMO76]

re: finances

Is there any family that you could borrow money from to either get an attorney or get to AZ yourself to defend yourself? They never should have been given the Order of Protection in the first place since you live 1500 miles away and were never served until 2017, but if you do not show up either in person or represented by an attorney you are going to end up with a violation on your record with a DV indicator. You do NOT want that.

If I had family to borrow from, I'd save myself from eviction first, you know?

My son's father KNOWS my financial situation, he has plainly threatened to further impact it in a negative manner. He is counting on me not being able to defend myself.

Today I emailed someone from the Modest Means program, and am hoping to get some assistance there.

 

[quincy]

They denied my request to appear at the pretrial conference via telephone. The reason cited was that I was given the opportunity to plead guilty by mail. No one explained to me what I would be pleading guilty TO, therefore I had no intentions of doing so. I refused to be bulldozed into a guilty plea.

I do not understand the denial of a public defender. If they will not allow me to appear by phone, I should at least have the option to have a lawyer to attend on my behalf. Or at least SOMEONE who can explain all this to me since the court clerks won't. I do understand the court clerks are limited and can't give out legal advice, but they can't even explain the charges, motions, etc?

A public defender would be appointed if you faced jail time - and no jail time is being considered.

You should seek out legal assistance in your area so you can find out better what is going on. The attorney you see in Missouri can get you answers to your questions by contacting the attorney in Arizona. The attorney in Missouri can also help locate help for you in Arizona.

 

[MomInMO76]

Is there any family that you could borrow money from to either get an attorney or get to AZ yourself to defend yourself? They never should have been given the Order of Protection in the first place since you live 1500 miles away and were never served until 2017, but if you do not show up either in person or represented by an attorney you are going to end up with a violation on your record with a DV indicator. You do NOT want that.

Also, in regards to the Order of Protection being granted....when I was served, I immediately called the court. I actually had not realized that it was originally requested in 2016 until that court clerk informed me of it. She actually laughed out loud when I said I lived in Missouri and said "do you actually even SEE these people"? Yeah, no, I don't. She said I could protest the Order of protection by submitting a request, and there'd be a hearing where I most likely could appear via telephone. However, he turned around and had me charged for violating it so quickly (we were having an argument via text/phone and he knew I'd been served so he immediately called the police). I didn't think that since charges for violating were pending, that I could still request they be dismissed. The attorney I did talk to in AZ never came right out and said I couldn't, but she made it sound like it wasn't an option.

Is that possibly a route I should go ahead and pursue? Try to get it dismissed? the terms were written contact only via email, and no physical contact. However, he fully agreed to meet me in December of last year to do the drop off/pickup of our son.