Need Internet/Email Libel Information

What is the name of your state? Kansas AND Colorado

I am posting for both myself (Kansas) and a friend who lives in Colorado. We recently have been notified that some persons on a internet forum are sending emails and instant messages that are full of lies about us.

The lies concerning my friend are such that they have hurt her horse and dog breeding business b/c they are saying she's done some VERY unethical things. None of the lies are true but now the damage is done. People who have received these emails or heard the "rumors" are going to think twice about doing business with her.

Now for me they are simply stating lie after lie about me that isn't even true. They are undermining my ability to take care of my children and my animals. I am the founder of a Equine rescue here in my state and these rumors can lead others to think that I don't know what the heck I'm doing in my business.

I need to know what recourse we have for this. We have the copies of the lies in our hands and the persons who are spreading these lies. All I need to do now is to find their physical address and last names.

What can we do?

Since you don't state what is being said, are they complete statements of fact that can be contradicted with proof? or is it an opinion that that person thinks?

All I need to do now is to find their physical address and last names.

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Forget it. You have no right to that information even if you could understand how to do it.

And, based on your post, you have no cause of action for anything.

BelizeBreeze: I fail to see what your advice is based upon. It looks to me like this person has every reason to investigate a cause of action for defamation.

>You have no right to that information even if you could understand how to do it.

She most certainly does have a right to find out who is writing defamatory things about her, if in fact the publications qualify as libel.

What do you mean "even if you could understand how to do it"? That was rather insulting don't you think?

The procedure for uncovering the identity of a poster is not brain surgery. It IS time consuming and the person should realize it will take a lot of work to follow through on such a quest. I do believe though, that anyone of average intelligence, is capable of "understanding" and following the necessary procedures.

meganproser said:

BelizeBreeze: I fail to see what your advice is based upon. It looks to me like this person has every reason to investigate a cause of action for defamation.

>You have no right to that information even if you could understand how to do it.

She most certainly does have a right to find out who is writing defamatory things about her, if in fact the publications qualify as libel.

What do you mean "even if you could understand how to do it"? That was rather insulting don't you think?

The procedure for uncovering the identity of a poster is not brain surgery. It IS time consuming and the person should realize it will take a lot of work to follow through on such a quest. I do believe though, that anyone of average intelligence, is capable of "understanding" and following the necessary procedures.

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REally? Then please educate all of us poor idiots on what theory of law would give her the right to the information?

I'm all ears.

tccarlton: You can't get the identity of these writers unless you are suing them or they have committed a crime.

Suing them would probably take you a couple of years and even if you represent yourself, it will cost you thousands of dollars to get the case to trial.

Still interested?

I didn't call you an idiot.

Theory of law? A plaintiff has the right to subpoena Internet Service Providers, Mail Servers, etc. while conducting discovery for a civil suit.

AOL has led the industry in fighting for the rights of it's users vs. the rights of those abused by said users. Many other providers will give up a user's identity with very little trouble.

The toughtest ones to crack are AOL, so I've included the link to their policy here:

http://legal.web.aol.com/aol/aolpol/civilsubpoena.html

Theory of law? A plaintiff has the right to subpeona Internet Service Providers, Mail Servers, etc. while conducting discovery for a civil suit.

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You are priceless. I bet this poster is actually going to spend thousands of dollars to file a 'john doe' lawsuit, pay an attorney to file the Subpoena duces Tecum and then follow the process through the appeals process (more thousands) to find out she has NO CASE.

Or did you read something in her post that I didn't?

And if you did, you tell me what 'damages' were incurred that would allow a lawsuit to go forward from which a subpoena can be issued?

BB, you told her she had no right to the information and you didn’t qualify that with any “unless” statements.

The poster said: “The lies concerning my friend are such that they have hurt her horse and dog breeding business b/c they are saying she's done some VERY unethical things.”

We obviously don’t know if the publications amount to libel, but why would you ASSUME that they don’t? The poster SAID these things have hurt her friend’s business, and if that is true, then the friend has a possible cause of action.

The poster also said: “I am the founder of a Equine rescue here in my state and these rumors can lead others to think that I don't know what the heck I'm doing in my business.”

Again, based upon that statement, I would lean towards the assumption that the poster DOES have a cause of action.

BB wrote: “you tell me what 'damages' were incurred that would allow a lawsuit to go forward from which a subpoena can be issued?”

If one of the plaintiff’s is operating a business and false, disparaging statements were made about the conduct of that business, it amounts to libel per se and a certain amount of damages will be presumed.

If the plaintiff is not operating a business, she can claim damages for embarrassment, humiliation, mental stress, etc., along with damage to her reputation, and punitive damages.

BB wrote: “I bet this poster is actually going to spend thousands of dollars to file a 'john doe' lawsuit, pay an attorney to file the Subpoena duces Tecum and then follow the process through the appeals process (more thousands) to find out she has NO CASE.”

First you assume she has no case, then you assume she’s fool enough to commence an action without finding out if she has a case, then you make an assumption as to how important this is to her. Given that she has gathered some evidence and come here for advice, it seems more reasonable to assume she’s very serious about this and offer her some of the information she needs.

She does not have to spend thousands of dollars to get the writers identities. The cost of filing a complaint is usually well under $200.00. A Court order from the judge assigned to the case, is free. The IP can appeal but if the Plaintiff’s evidence is defamatory on it’s face, the appeal will be short and sweet.

I assume you are an attorney? Most attorney’s seem to have an unshakable believe that when a private citizen is defamed by another private citizen, there is no “reasonable” recourse within the law. But “reasonable”, in the eye of the victim, may be far different than in the eye of an attorney.

Take a look around BB. Defamation suits against non-media defendants are becoming more and more common. Too many people are “mad as hell and they’re not gonna take it anymore”. Better they file suit than become violent.

Just what I thought.

Come back when you finish your second year of law school.

Then maybe you'll have a clue.

I have stated before that I am not an attorney. I will state for the record, that I have no interest in becoming an attorney.

Your sweeping dismissal of my post was interesting. Did you find something in my post that was incorrect? If so, please, by all means do tell.