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Defamation?

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FuriousInMO

Junior Member
undefinedWhat is the name of your state? Missouri

Nearly a year and a half ago my child and two other boys were involved in a stupid incident. My son video taped the incident while one of the other boys threw something through the drive through window at a local eating establishment.

After the incident, my son came home and the police caught and arrested the other two. When the police called, I promptly took my son in and turned him over to the local officer for questioning. He was charged with taking part in third degree assault.

We hired an attorney for him and went to court. I wanted him to be punished for his part in this, but didn't want him to have to carry this incident with him the rest of his life. He was put on 6 months probation with the agreement that if he got in no more trouble, it would be removed from his permanent record. He paid restitution to the restuarant, paid his court costs, attorney fees and fines, with his money, we did not help him pay for any of it.

Now, a few days ago, a teacher in his school, a teacher that he has no classes with, stood in front of a class full of kids and told them that he was afraid to eat at the place where my son works because he is afraid my son might urinate in his food or something disgusting. 4 students reported what the teacher said, to the principal. My husband went to the school to issue a complaint about this, but the principal says that the teacher has denied he said this and the 4 students are unreliable witnesses.

My husband ran into the teacher in a local store and had a discussion with him about this incident. The same day, this teacher pulled my son out of class and apologized to him for what he had said. (thus admitting that he did say it, even though he denied it to the principal of the school)

My son asked him where he heard such a thing about him and he said that he had heard it around. My son asked if he had read it in the court report or something and he said no. My son agreed that he did not read something like that in the court report of the local paper because that is NOT what he did, nor was it ever made public record, and it was removed from his records since he completed his probation without getting into additional trouble.

Does my son have a defamation case against the school and this teacher?

Furious In MO
 


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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
Based solely on the facts presented in your post, no, you have no case for defamation. A teacher is entitled to his/her opinion, no matter how stupid and unprofessional that opinion is.
 
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FuriousInMO

Junior Member
Recourse?

Thank you for your quick comment. Does he have any recourse against this teacher or the principal?

Because, the teacher made reference to the incident that happened over a year ago. Even though, my son urinating on someone's food or drink was not the issue that he was charged with. (and for the record, the kid has not done some thing like this or I would lock him up myself)

Because it was a third degree assault charge, the school principal was made aware of it, but, as I said, it was removed from his record, per the judge, on the condition of his not getting into any other trouble.

Does the principal then have the right to make this knowledge public to all in the school system? And do the teachers then have the right to say things like this about a student in front of a class? Is there no recourse at all?

Thanks in advance.

A Mom
 
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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
FuriousInMO said:
Thank you for your quick comment. Does he have any recourse against this teacher or the principal?

Because, the teacher made reference to the incident that happened over a year ago. Even though, my son urinating on someone's food or drink was not the issue that he was charged with. (and for the record, the kid has not done some thing like this or I would lock him up myself)

Because it was a third degree assault charge, the school principal was made aware of it, but, as I said, it was removed from his record, per the judge, on the condition of his not getting into any other trouble.

Does the principal then have the right to make this knowledge public to all in the school system? And do the teachers then have the right to say things like this about a student in front of a class? Is there no recourse at all?

Thanks in advance.

A Mom
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The only suggestion I can make to you is to speak with a local attorney who knows your local climate. You also should ask the attorney about the possibility of speaking with the school board about the outrageous behavior of the teacher. I can't guarantee anything, but at least you'll know for sure.
 
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FuriousInMO

Junior Member
Thanks Belize

Missouri

Thank you again. We have an appointment with a local attorney.

How are you on civil rights and student rights? I have a whole list of issues that I am getting ready to send the ACLU on behalf of several students in this school.

We live on what I term the buckle of the Bible belt here. And the power afforded the school officials seems to have gone to their heads. They have expelled some students for the rest of the year, for minor, non-terroristic non drug related issues, while other kids can threaten to beat up, do beat up, drink on school property, and use tobacco products on school property. But, then, it all depends on what you last name is in this town......or how afraid they are of your drug crazed parents, as to what you can get away with.

I have no delusions that these kids are perfect, they are not. But, I don't think they deserved to get kicked out of school for the year for minor offenses while others are given 3 days detention or no punishment at all for worse crimes.

One boy signed another up for a salad, as a joke, in the lunch room and he was expelled for the year. I have checked the school handbook, and no where does it say that signing someone up for a salad, other than yourself, is even a punishable offense, let alone warrants being expelled for the rest of the year.

A mom
 
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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
FuriousInMO said:
Missouri

Thank you again. We have an appointment with a local attorney.

How are you on civil rights and student rights? I have a whole list of issues that I am getting ready to send the ACLU on behalf of several students in this school.

We live on what I term the buckle of the Bible belt here. And the power afforded the school officials seems to have gone to their heads. They have expelled some students for the rest of the year, for minor, non-terroristic non drug related issues, while other kids can threaten to beat up, do beat up, drink on school property, and use tobacco products on school property. But, then, it all depends on what you last name is in this town......or how afraid they are of your drug crazed parents, as to what you can get away with.

I have no delusions that these kids are perfect, they are not. But, I don't think they deserved to get kicked out of school for the year for minor offenses while others are given 3 days detention or no punishment at all for worse crimes.

One boy signed another up for a salad, as a joke, in the lunch room and he was expelled for the year. I have checked the school handbook, and no where does it say that signing someone up for a salad, other than yourself, is even a punishable offense, let alone warrants being expelled for the rest of the year.

A mom
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Sounds like you live in or near El Dorado Springs, Linclon, Cole Camp or points south :D

Do a search on this site for student or civil rights and you'll see my stance many times.
 
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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
You need to give all the facts, not just some of the facts, it makes a big difference in the advice you receive. While you may have done the right thing, having yor son pay for his crimes, apparently that has not made an impression, and quite frankly, your post sounds as if you are making excuses for him and not holding him responsible. You are sending him mixed messages what ever your intention. If your son is on probation and or a deferred judgement, then his repeated "pranks" are very serious. In What county do your reside? Here is your latest post, this may change the advice you have received.

FuriousInMO said:
What is the name of your state? Missouri

We live in a very small, rural community. If your child is not a jock or in the Ag dept, they are made fun of, harrassed and/or abused. Here is a short run down of what I know so far:

As a joke, one boy signs up another boy for a chef salad in the cafeteria. The 16 y/o boy is then expelled for the rest of the year. The boy who was signed up for the salad was agreeable in taking the salad at lunch time, so there was no harm done and none of the precious lettuce wasted. I have checked the student handbook and there is no specific rule relating to signing up another student for a salad in the cafeteria. This was not destructive, was not harmful to himself or others and wasn't drug related, so how can this be a crime that is so horrific to be punishable by expulsion?

Two boys are walking down the hall, one is carrying a puzzle for a teacher. Another student hits the boy carrying the puzzle, on purpose, and scatters it everywhere. His friends then proceed to kick the pieces down the hall. The two original boys are told by the principal that they did this on purpose and he demands that they pick up every piece. They request that the other students who helped create the mess be asked to help pick up the puzzle. They are given 5 days detention for talking back to the principal. One boy then crumples up his detention notice so he is expelled for the rest of the year.

Two boys are in the cafeteria and another boy approaches and tells them he is going to kick their asses. One of the boys reports this to the principal. He tells him that he is just trying to start more trouble and that if he doesn't go to class immediately, "You will be next". I am guessing this means he will be next to be expelled.

The boy who stated he was going to kick their asses, has made verbal threats to several student. This boy's mother also comes to the school and makes threats to students. She has climbed up into the back of my son's pickup and told him that she was going to kill him. She has come to our house and made threats. (I doubt she will be back here, as I didn't react the way other parents did when she pulled this with them) The boy and his brother attacked another student and beat him to a bloody pulp. When the father of this child complained, the mother filed a complaint with the local police that he threatened her. I believe the principal does nothing to this family or these kids because he doesn't want them showing up at his house like they do at others.

The set of boys who have been expelled, or are friends with the boys who have been expelled, dress in baggy clothes, and don't conform to what the local "good families and moral majority" like to see in our young people. These boys are good kids. They are ornery and they have done their share of pranks, but they don't go around beating up and threatening people or destroying property. They are constantly being grilled by the principal and accused of being on drugs etc. Anything that happens in the school, they are openly accused by faculty. When they deny the charges, the principal tells them that he has them on video and if they continue to deny the charges, the punishment will be worse. When asked to produce the video, he never does, and the issue is dropped until the next issue comes up.

I feel that this principal has it out for a small select group of kids in the school, one of the boys being mine, and he is out to get rid of them, one by one.

I have talked to some of the teachers in the school, and there are several teachers that adore these boys, some teachers that despise them. If all the teachers had problems with these kids, I would think that the kids were definitely the problem, but to hear some of the teachers talk about how they enjoy the boys, I have a hard time believing the boys are completely at fault in this.

I have told them that from now on, when they are called to the office, to request that they be allowed to call their parents and an attorney before they are questioned. I know that they have the right to remain silent, even in the school.

Some of the boys do smoke, and are stalked by the principal constantly, trying to catch them with a cigarette. While, in the ag class, there are boys with chew, daily, including the instructor, on the school grounds, with the chew in their mouths. How can they punish one set of kids for a crime and not the others? Tobacco is tobacco no matter what form it is in.

I have alot more complaints, but this is just the start.
Does anyone feel that these kids have a case? Are their rights being tromped on? What are the odds of getting these boys back in school before they are lost completely and decide to never want to go back?

A mom
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FuriousInMO

Junior Member
No, I'm not making excuses

Missouri

We are in Barry county.
No, I don't make excuses for my child. What he did, when he video taped the incident over a year ago, he paid for. He is no longer on probation and has not been in trouble with the law (before or since) that time.

The list of events that I posted, in the previous post, he was not involved in all of them. Other kids are involved here and are being treated the same way.

If he has actually done something wrong in the school, I would also punish him at home for it, and would support the school in their punishment of him. And I can be far more harsh than the school. These kids DO have to be held accountable for their actions or they never learn consequenses. BUT, I do feel that they should all be treated fairly, not treated based on who they are, how much money they have, or who their parents are, or what church they attend.

I just can't see how, some kids get away with actions while other kids are punished very severely for them. If the action is punishable, then the punishment should be fair, across the board for all of them.

This school has a history of *getting rid* of the students that don't fit into their realm of the perfect student. Or, if the stundents don't conform to what the principal and board think these kids should be. Dressed in izods and levis or on the ball team or wearing cowboy boots. They have been told to conform.

Recently two girls were caught in the school with 190 proof alcohol. They got three days suspension. Signing someone up for a salad as a prank got another kid expelled for the year. Define for me how one is more severe a crime than the other.

The boy involved in the lettuce liability issue was then at a later date, kicked out of a ball game at another school, by our principal. He was there with his father to watch his sister play ball. Does the principal of our school have the power to remove the boy from a ballgame at another school?

I have to leave right now, but I do look forward to your comments. I will also give you more information later, if you wish.

A Mom
 
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illpleathe5th

Junior Member
FuriousInMO wrote, "If he has actually done something wrong in the school, I would also punish him at home for it, and would support the school in their punishment of him. And I can be far more harsh than the school. These kids DO have to be held accountable for their actions or they never learn consequenses. BUT, I do feel that they should all be treated fairly, not treated based on who they are, how much money they have, or who their parents are, or what church they attend."


See, instead of focusing on punishing, what about raising him properly so he would never even think to do that sort of thing. You can probably punish very well. No doubt there. Throwing a brick through a drive-thru window at a restaraunt is not "a stupid incident" as you said, it's severe. If the kids that reported the teacher's actions to the principal are friends, and are not "creditable" witnesses, meaning they are in cahoots with your son, have poor history with behavior at the school, and might lie to protect your son's back, then the principal should have the right to reject the accusations. A classroom full of people, and only 4 will step up to the plate? Usually kids love to ruffle a teacher's feathers. Good luck.
 
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FuriousInMO

Junior Member
You should plead the 5th

Missouri

First off, In my account of events, my son is not party to all the *pranks* or events. Friends and/or other students are.

As for the 4 who were willing to tell the principal what the teacher said about my son, they are known by my son, but not people that he hangs out with or runs around with. Others also stated to us that the teacher said this, but would not go to the principal out of fear of retaliation from the teacher. I can respect their fear and privacy on that matter.

Where did you ever read that a brick was thrown through any window. I never said that.

And, as for raising my son right, I have. He is a decent kid. He doesn't go around making fun of others, he isn't a mean kid. He did was with others and video taped something really stupid, once, over a year ago. The attorney that we got, said that he could get him off, but I would not allow him to even attempt that. I wanted him punished for being a part of it, no matter how minor or major his part.

We have several elderly widowed people living near us, and if they need furniture moved or a lawn mowed or any kind of help, they call and ask for this boy, and he goes and helps them with whatever then need done. And he never complains about it. Nor does he take money from them for doing it. So, his back woods hick up bringing really isn't the issue here, is it?

But, the teacher comments are aside from the way that certain students in this school are being treated. We just had two kids leave here after telling us about things going on in the school. A couple others were out here a few nights ago, telling their stories. And my son told me this morning that there is another student who would like to come and tell us about what has happened to him at the school.

I don't know why they chose to come to us to tell us about what is going on,(other than the fact that we listen to them without judging them) but now that they have, I do feel compelled to try to help them figure out what their rights are and what to do about it.

This isn't a parenting issue, it is about the rights of these kids.

A mom
 
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meganproser

Guest
Signing someone up for a salad as a prank got another kid expelled for the year. Define for me how one is more severe a crime than the other.

Prior record.

I don't know why they chose to come to us to tell us about what is going on,(other than the fact that we listen to them without judging them) but now that they have,

They are coming to you because the word is out that you are going to "do something about this teacher/principal”. You should be encouraging them to go to their own parents and if their parents want to get involved, have them call you so that you can work together.

YOU can’t take any direct action about the stories these kids are giving you because you are not privy to the school’s side of those stories. Their parents ARE.

You may not realize the affect your actions are having in school. It’s fine to listen to these kids, but you really must inform them that you can do NOTHING about their concerns and that it is their parents who must come forward on their behalf.

I am grateful to any parent that follows up on possible problems in school, but I do urge you to look into these things in a responsible manner.
 
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FuriousInMO

Junior Member
No Thanks!

:D Missouri

I would probably be the first school board member to be assasinated. No thanks!

I realize that I can only really help my own. But I can at least point these kids in the right direction, or try to. I did tell them that I would help put their complaints down to present to the board.

Thanks for your input. I wil tell the boys to talk to their parents. Maybe we can get together as a group and speak with the board and go from there.

A mom
 
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