Verbal agreement . . . do I stand a chance??

What is the name of your state? CA I'm NCP and my ex-wife (CP) and I had a verbal agreement wherein she would accept reduced payments as I was unemployed. After CP found out I had a girlfriend, she got very vindictive and turned me into to DCSS claiming over $60K in arrearages. I hired an attorney and we're headed to a hearing in one week. My attorney submitted my declaration and all the cancelled checks not claimed in CP affidavit to DCSS. However, CP submitted a response through her attorney claiming the checks were for various things (like childcare, divorce settlement etc). Her attorney attached some exbihits of evidence (like I signed the daycare contract), and some evidence that a few of the checks are for settlement. How does judges view verbal agreement? Will the judge throw out all the checks because of credibility or will each be examined on its merits? Will I be thrown in jail for the arrearage? I have been current since May 05 when DCSS took the case over. I'm very nervous . . . any advice on what to expect?

Let me clarify - Was there an original court order? And then you verbally agreed to pay less without going through the courts for a modification? If I read it this way, buddy you're on the hook for the arrearages. If you were out of work, you should have gone back to court for a modification for at least a temporary reduction. As far as will you go to jail, has a warrant been issued?

Yes, there was an court order in effect

But my question is . . . what about the fact that she accepted the checks and did nothing for almost 3 years. Doesn't that prove acceptance / verbal agreement?

Yes, there was a court order in effect.

MikeC. said:

But my question is . . . what about the fact that she accepted the checks and did nothing for almost 3 years. Doesn't that prove acceptance / verbal agreement?

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It wasn't her job to "do anything." The fact remains that it was your responsibility to file for a reduction. Her accepting a lesser amount of check isn't an admission of a verbal agreement. Frankly, receiving something rather than nothing was probably in her best interest, especially since you weren't working.

And the warrant question????? It takes quite awhile to accrue $60K in arrearages. Are you sure there isn't a bench warrant?

I don't know if there is a warrant. She turned me in in late March 05. Since then, DCSS has done nothing but harassed me, turned me into Tax Board and I found out they have now liened my home and placed the arrearage on my credit report. I hired the attorney to help, but I'm wondering if my money is being wasted. I can't sleep, very depressed. Is there any legal way out here?

Okay Mike, I had to take a couple of deep breaths before I responded again. Is there a legal way out? NO!!!! You have an obligation to support your child(ren). Step up to the plate, be a man (and a father), and do what you should have been doing all along. If all of those measures to get you to pay have already been taken, I suspect two things. One, your driver's license is also suspended. And two, there probably is a bench warrant. You can call your state's DOT to check on the license, and you can call the court house to see if there is, in fact, a bench warrant issued. If there IS a bench warrant, expect to at least pay a percentage of your arrearages to stay out of jail.

I have to also ask you, were payments supposed to be made to her through the court system and instead you were paying her directly? Is that how the amount got to be so high? Make sure in the future all payments are made directly through DCSS.

While the situation doesn't look good for you, at some point, you have to stop running and start being responsible. The child(ren)'s needs don't just stop because you stop working.

There was no stipulation in the support order (part of the divorce decree) as to how the payments were to be made. Just the amount ($1500 mnth) on the 1st of every month. I paid her random amounts . . . but never more than half of the amount. She only declared some of it, the others she claims were for various things. But even if the court accept all the checks as support, I would still owe about $45k per the order. I'm not trying to cheat my kids. I just think that she should not be rewarded for fraud. We had an agreeement and now she can literally ruin me because she's now bitter that I moved on. I'm gonna go have a beer . . . check any responses in the morning. Maybe I read better news . . . this totally sucks!!!

Hon, on some small level I sympathize. However, you had (and still have) an obligation to these kids. It's not about the ex. It's not about fraud. You have a legally binding court order. Paying what you felt like paying whenever you felt like paying is grounds for contempt. What your feeling now is the ramifications for violating the court order. I wish you luck. Take it as a hard lessoned learned. Focus less on your ex and more on your children.

I'm off myself for the night. We'll see if one of the other senior members has anything to add in the morning.

You're in a world of hurt, dude. Verbal agreements are as good as the paper they're written on. In other words - useless. You had a court order. You didn't abide by it, nor did you make an attempt to have it modified in a number of years. Any checks you gave her for support should have had "child support" written in the memo section. She has not committed fraud. It was up to you to file for a modification, educate yourself regarding court orders and what it means not to follow them, etc. I'd suggest you find a way to get some cash to pay part of what you owe, and try to negotiate a payment plan for the rest. While you haven't been paying as ordered, she's been picking up the slack.

So basically . . . you all are saying . . . I'm SCREWED! Not easy to swallow, but I understand the legal rationale and I'm grateful for your responses. I have one final question, if I may? I'm now trying to modify the order to my current income (asking for a reduction). Problem is, I recently (Jan 05) helped my g/f co-signed for a new car (she has bad credit). On the loan application, I signed that I earn $180K per yr, but truthfully, I now earn $85K per yr (a substantial reduction from when the order was signed based on income of $175k yr). CP attorney has subpeonaed the car loan records. Is there a reasonable chance for the reduction based on my REAL income or am I screwed there too?

MikeC. said:

So basically . . . you all are saying . . . I'm SCREWED! Not easy to swallow, but I understand the legal rationale and I'm grateful for your responses. I have one final question, if I may? I'm now trying to modify the order to my current income (asking for a reduction). Problem is, I recently (Jan 05) helped my g/f co-signed for a new car (she has bad credit). On the loan application, I signed that I earn $180K per yr, but truthfully, I now earn $85K per yr (a substantial reduction from when the order was signed based on income of $175k yr). CP attorney has subpeonaed the car loan records. Is there a reasonable chance for the reduction based on my REAL income or am I screwed there too?

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Why in the world did you do something so foolish as to lie on the loan application???? ARG! Yes, that is likely to come back and bite you in the butt.

However, there is a couple of things that are a bit confusing.

For example, if you were ordered to pay 1500.00 a month, that comes out to
18,000 per year. That was only about 10% of your previous income...so you kind of caught a break there.

It would represent, 21% of your current income, which would be a little high for one child, (average is about 17%) and a little low for two children (average is about 25%)...so depending on how many kids you have, your support may not reduce much.

You stated that you paid a reduced amount of child support over a three year period....but never less than half. Yet you state that you are 45,000 in arrears in reality. (rather than the 60,000 she is claiming) Half of 18k a year, times three would be 27k....even with interest it wouldn't get as high as 45k. Therefore, something is inconsistant here.

I suspect that you are going to be stuck with close to the original child support amount (both due to your current income and the dumb move on the loan application) and I suspect that you are going to be stuck with the full arrearages.

Take the previous advice that you recieved. Find a way to pay off a chunk of it in a lump sum, and make arrangements to pay the rest in installments.
You may need to seriously downsize for a while.

And I know this goes without saying - but on both sides of the fence - Don't ever trust the opposite sex when it comes to affairs of the heart - The girlfriend/boyfriend - new husband - new wife - (not in all cases but a good number) will come back to "bite you in the butt also" - MAKE everything legal as the senior members are telling you !! GOOD LUCK

Your post title really caught my eye- so I just wanted to add something.

My xh went to court saying we had some verbal agreements. Actually, I didn't even have any contact with him for several years, so there is no way we could have had any verbal anything. When we went to court, the judge saw right through his lies and threw him in jail.

As mentioned, verbal agreements are worth the paper written on. They basically come down to "he said, she said" and are worth nothing. The only thing worthwhile is the court order. If she had agreed to cutting back, you both should have gone to the courts and had the order amended.