Mooning=Sexual Offender

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? SC

My 16 year old son mooned the bus driver, twice. He is ADHD and very impulsive. The first time it was after he got off the bus in the afternoon. The following morning the Vice Principle informed him that the bus driver reported the incident. He admitted to it, was arrested and taken to jail. Being taken to jail has become the routine when kids get in trouble at my sons school. The Vice Principle explained he was under school jurisdiction from the time he walked out his house in the morning till he walked in his house in the afternoon. He was kicked out off the bus for 2 weeks.
That afternoon while playing football in our yard, he saw the bus coming up the street that crosses our street when he decided to moon the bus driver again. He thought he could get away with it because he did not ride the bus. The driver reported the incident to the police and he was arrested again the following day.
He thought he had only broken school rules the first time he did it. After the second incident he knew he had broken the law. The first incident was handled by the City Police because the school is under City jurisdiction. The second was handled by the County Sheriff's Office because my house is in the County. The County Officer took the matter much more serious than the City did and informed my son that the charge was indecent exposure and if convicted he would have to register as a sexual offender for the rest of his life. During his first arrest one of the officers at the station inquired why he was there. When told he mooned the bus driver, the officer laughed and said it was ridiculous that he had been arrested. The second incident was not school related. Under school rules if a student gets into trouble outside of school the school can discipline the student. Of course they were told by the bus driver about the second incident. So now he is recommended for expulsion.
He also will have to appear in Family Court which will be awhile because of the backlog.
My biggest concern is that he may have to register as a sex offender even though he did not commit a sexual offense. In SC anyone convicted of indecent exposure has to register as a sexual offender. Can having an attorney help us in court since he has already admitted to what he did? I don’t know if it matters but he was never read his rights by either officer. He has not been in any other serious trouble.
Thanks in advance for any advice

Yes. Defense attorneys help the innocent and the guilty alike. He needs an attorney, if the facts are what you say they are. He's much more likely to avoid a disposition that includes registration with an attorney, than without one.

We need more facts in order to advise.
When was the last time your child was reevaluated re his ADHD.
What Rx does he take and is it being prescribed by a child and adolescent psychiatrist?
Does he have any other diagnosis?
Does he have an IEP?
Is/was he in special Ed?
Does he ride the "short bus"?

He was diagnosed at 6 years old by a psychiatrist. I had a in-depth psychological evaluation done at the Medical University. He takes Adderall and has a medicine check up every 3 months by our family doctor. He used to see a psychiatrist but has not seen one for years. No other diagnosis. He had a 504 plan in middle school but he chose not to continue the plan in high school. Believe it or not he is very intelligent although his actions show the opposite. His impulsive behavior has always been prominent even with medicine. He rides the “long bus”.

Look at it this way. While he was making his statement to the bus driver - how many kids were on the bus and/or in the neighborhood who got to see your son in all of his 16yo glory? I'd be mighty pissed off if my 11yo daughter was around, and would insist that something be done about your son who (a) is not able to control himself and (b) doesn't have anyone who is apparently going to help him do so.

And ya know - having his a$$ and penis hanging out (or was he controlled enough to only show his a$$?) IS offensive - sexually and otherwise.

rtbrain said:

He was diagnosed at 6 years old by a psychiatrist. I had a in-depth psychological evaluation done at the Medical University. He takes Adderall and has a medicine check up every 3 months by our family doctor. He used to see a psychiatrist but has not seen one for years. No other diagnosis. He had a 504 plan in middle school but he chose not to continue the plan in high school. Believe it or not he is very intelligent although his actions show the opposite. His impulsive behavior has always been prominent even with medicine. He rides the “long bus”.

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My response:

You seem to think that his ADHD is some sort of a defense to his criminal actions. It's not.

Do you have any idea how many criminals have some sort of mental "incapacity" and are incarcerated? The legal question that will be asked, and determined for his prosecution, will be whether he knew right from wrong and could "appreciate" his wrongfulness.

Then, he'll be dumped in a juvenile facility where he belongs.

IAAL

I asked the questions for a specific reason. You confirmed pretty much what I suspected. Please listen closely to my response.

Your son needs to be evaluated for Asperger's as soon as possible. It may be possible to have this done through the school system or the same University that evaluated him before. Asperger's is a developmental disability that affects right brain functioning and is often diagnosed ad ADHD early in life but the Dignosis may change over time so it is imparitive to have the child reevaluated peridocially. If he has a diagnosis of Asperger's he will then become eligible for many services as opposed to being taged as SED or worse.

Persons with Asperger's have normal to high intelligence and have contributed to society in many ways but because of their rote learning style amongst other things, lack pragmatics and the flexibility to process environemntal and social clues or novel information. Fitting into society and appropriate social interaction are hallmarks of Asperger's.

For example, they may be able to cite the rules of society but not understand the consequences of their actions, interpret facts differently than other's leading to frustration for all involved or they may not know when it is appropriate to apply those rules. They are immature for their age and impulsive. Here is a good site for more information on this disorder with many links, http://www.faaas.org

He was diagnosed at 6 years old by a psychiatrist.

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That may have been an accurate diagnosis 10 years ago both for his age and the fact that Asperger's first appeared in the DSM-IV in 1994 and clinicians were unfamilar with it's many presentations and how it progresed. At that time it was thought they grew out of it, so high functioning individuals often fell through the cracks based on knowledge available then.

I had a in-depth psychological evaluation done at the Medical University.

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Depending on when this was done, this may need to be redone and/or the results compared to subsequent scholastic and other clinical records, there may be some clear indications of various disorders that may not have been recognized. Was this a neuropsychological evaluation?

He takes Adderall and has a medicine check up every 3 months by our family doctor.

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While the family doctor may be appropriate for your son's physical health, a Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist should monitor your child's psychiatric medications as some medications may require adjustment. Was the PCP informed of your son's actions? Your son's reports of his feelings or reactions to the medication may not be accurate.

He used to see a psychiatrist but has not seen one for years.

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He needs to see one again, ASAP.

No other diagnosis.

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Normally the disruptive behavior described would at least be provisionally diagnosed as Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) this is the precurser to the Adult diagnosis of antisocial Personality Disorder, frequently seen in the criminal population and described as "Psychopathy". However persons with Asperger's frequently have signs of bi-polar, ODD, ADHD, dementia, psychosis, depression someitme not quite fitting the criteria for any of those by the book, they may also be desribed as having certain types of personality disorders.

He had a 504 plan in middle school but he chose not to continue the plan in high school.

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This is a big, big mistake, first to allow him to decide to stop this when he went to high school but to not immediatly ask to reinstate this at the first sign of his inappropriate social and behavioral problems in school. Your son requires both a structured and supportive environment at home and at school. It is also important to find a good match of his talents to an occupation that he can funtion in where he will not be distracted by challenges he is not equiped to meet.

Believe it or not he is very intelligent although his actions show the opposite.

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I believe it, this is one of the hallmarks of Asperger's. Although it may appear to be, it is not a matter of a lack of intelligence, ability, laziness, unfortunately because they learn by rote and their concrete brain function, once they learn a bad behavior, it is difficult to change, making prognosis following a late diagnosis, poor.

His impulsive behavior has always been prominent even with medicine.

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This is also typical, often medicaitons may work atypically, and when they work don't touch the underlying thought disorders and individuals become highly defended.

He rides the “long bus”.

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This would have been handled differently if he was in his 504 pan and on the short bus.

My response:

You seem to think that his ADHD is some sort of a defense to his criminal actions. It's not.

Do you have any idea how many criminals have some sort of mental "incapacity" and are incarcerated? The legal question that will be asked, and determined for his prosecution, will be whether he knew right from wrong and could "appreciate" his wrongfulness.

Then, he'll be dumped in a juvenile facility where he belongs.

IAAL

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You are correct, whether or not the child has Asperger's, it is no defense to criminal behavior, however, it gives insight to his potential for rehab. With Asperger's as opposed to Antisocial Personality Disorder (Criminal) there may be a cognitive deficit that diverts his ability to appreciate his wrongfulness even though he knows right from wrong. If he is thrown in with criminals, he will become one and he won't be able to function in society when he is released. If he has Asperger's or another disorder and can receive treatment in an appropriate environment there is a chance that he may become a contributing member of society.

This is a response to post #5 and post #6.

I thought this site was for free advice, not free insults.

To Stealth 2
How dare you judge me or my son. What is your experience with ADHD children? I have done everything I know how, to help my son. You are an awful person to suggest otherwise. I will always be there for my son, through good and bad. Your insults say a lot about your character or lack of. You are obviously not qualified to comment on this subject; don’t you have something better to do with your time? He is a 16 year old teenager who did an impulsive act. He is sorry and so am I to anyone who it offended. He is basically a good kid, not perfect, I’m sure like your 11 year old daughter. He does not smoke, drink or do drugs so we must be doing something right. I really don’t want him in the same class or on the same bus with kids who do those things. But unlike you, I live in the real world. If you read my post and were not so judgmental you would realize that he has been punished and there is more punishment down the road. This could affect college and employment opportunities for his future. That must make you feel good. Along with being arrested twice, facing expulsion from school, embarrassment and having to go to court with the possibility of having to register as a sexual offender because of our states law. Is that punishment enough for you yet? By the way, mooning is when someone pulls the back of their pants down far enough to show their butt. It is an act of disrespect and is very rude, but not sexual in any way. So why your last comment was needed makes me wonder about you. I have seen some of you other posts. Each one was mean and hurtful. With more than 21,000 posts, probably all are cruel; this must be the only way that you can feel good about yourself. Maybe you need to turn off your computer and get yourself some help.

To Attorney Views:
You need to reread my post. My son admitted to his actions. He did not lie or try to get out of what he had done. He took responsibility for his actions. I only mentioned the ADHD to give some background on the situation not as an excuse. Should I have just said, “My son mooned the bus driver, do I need an attorney”? I don’t think so. Yes, he does know right from wrong but unfortunately did not use good judgment or consider the consequences. It’s known as impulsiveness which is one of the characteristics of ADHD. My son does not belong in a juvenile detention facility. I would like to see the results of a poll taken of men asking if they have ever mooned someone. I’ll bet there would me more that had than had not. Your user name makes it sound like you are an attorney. If you are, god help your clients.

What I have learned from this site is there is no free legal advice and it would be in my sons best interest to consult a real live attorney not some wanna-bes.

Gee - sorry you're offended. Maybe that will give you an idea of how the people who had to see your son's feel. Especially if they had kids with them.

And yeah - I know what mooning is. Do you really expect anyone to believe that your son - who you admit has poor impulse control - actually thought about making sure only his butt cheeks were showing? Get real, babe.

My 11 yo may not be perfect, but it would occur to neither her nor her older brother to strip even partially in public. Sorry to disillusion you.

rtbrain said:

What I have learned from this site is there is no free legal advice and it would be in my sons best interest to consult a real live attorney not some wanna-bes.

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You specifically excluded me from your reply, I know you read my reply, yet your make no comment, when it was clear that I was respectful and trying to help you. When you come to a site like this you will get some objective responses that you will not like, when you go to court, you will encounter the same. Becoming angry will not help you or your son.

And I'll add something. While I do sympathize with your son (and you) that he has issues which need addressing - and that he may not be in total control of - that doesn't excuse behavior that affects others. It doesn't erase any harm that may have been done to someone's 11yo - or 9, 7 or 5yo. Regardless what you'e done to help him, he felt this was okay behavior not just once, but twice. How many times before you feel it's no longer excusable? At the end of the day,m his behavior is his - and your - responsibility. Not mine, not the bus driver's, not the school's, not your neighbors'. His, and yours.

"He is a 16 year old teenager who did an impulsive act."

2 times is an impulsive act? How did you punish him for the first time he mooned the bus?

You are upset that he is being "judged" by people responding to your posts? Just wait till he gets judged by 12 people in a jury box. I just love people who get insulted when their actions or the actions of their family are "judged" by others but will judge the actions of people who do them harm. I can't wait for you to respond and say that only God can judge people.

stephenk said:

"He is a 16 year old teenager who did an impulsive act."

2 times is an impulsive act? How did you punish him for the first time he mooned the bus?

You are upset that he is being "judged" by people responding to your posts? Just wait till he gets judged by 12 people in a jury box. I just love people who get insulted when their actions or the actions of their family are "judged" by others but will judge the actions of people who do them harm. I can't wait for you to respond and say that only God can judge people.

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We don't know how many times he did this before he got caught. We know the second mooning of the busdriver was intentional and with expressed knowledge of "some" the consequences, the offender even laid in wait to moon the busdriver. By statue it is a sexual offense, does it rise to the level of required registration as a sex offender, therein lies the question and why they need an attorney. The problem is, mooning is a common occurance among adolescents of both sexes, but there are some unwritten rules, it is usually done as a group, on a dare, between peers, on the highway, so it doesn't get reported, the risk of being reported is a part of the thrill, it is those subtle rules that OP's son failed to comprehend and why it is a sexual offense rather than an adolescent prank. Neither is right, but the social context is quite different. I was at a wedding of a co-worker, following one of the limos transporting a part of the wedding party to the reception when all of a sudden 3 of my co-workers mooned me. Another time, while transporting a large group of jr hi girls on a church trip to Disneyland, there had been many times when we had to tell the girls to quiet down. While cleaning the van before returning it to it's owner, discovered a series of butt prints on the glass, there was no way to tell who they belonged to, the owners of the van also had adolescent males, one of which was known to moon. There were rumors that the girls had mooned the other van carrying the boys.

To met4nzkx

I did read your post and was very grateful for your response. I intend on addressing it further. I needed to get away from the computer because the comments left by others bothered me. I only saw your post after I submitted my last post.. Thank you so much for taking time to help. It seems there are many people who want to judge and criticize others when they don’t have all the facts. I will address everything in your post. Once again, thank you for your understanding and help

rtbrain said:

To met4nzkx

I did read your post and was very grateful for your response. I intend on addressing it further. I needed to get away from the computer because the comments left by others bothered me. I only saw your post after I submitted my last post.. Thank you so much for taking time to help. It seems there are many people who want to judge and criticize others when they don’t have all the facts. I will address everything in your post. Once again, thank you for your understanding and help

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We can only advise based on the facts you provide. The fact is, as professionals with knowledge of this subject IAAL and myself both agree that unless you come to grips with this situation your son will end up in the criminal justice system, at least he won't have to make decisions.