2nd DUI arrest, ARD for the first one

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

If you previously had a DUI arrest and successfully completed ARD, but never took the steps to have it expunged, and get second arrest 4 years later, does that still show as a second DUI offense in the PA tier system?

Jambo said:

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

If you previously had a DUI arrest and successfully completed ARD, but never took the steps to have it expunged, and get second arrest 4 years later, does that still show as a second DUI offense in the PA tier system?

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Yes it a 2nd offence for punishment reasons.... but even if you had it expunged... the D.A Keeps records forever of who did ARD and why forever...

expunged or not expunged... it's a second offence in 10 years and will be treated as a Second offence for punishment related reasons..

why did you do this again? you got a break with ARD... free and clear of the criminal stuff and you could have had a clean criminal record... you took the classes and they explain abotu DUI etc..

why get yourself in that position again?

You need a DUI( lawyer yessterday if you do not already have one.

also some detials if you wish to share on this new DUI arrest you may get some adivce on that on this board.

It was my fiancee's brother, not me. we're trying to figure out what's going to happen to him because we're afraid that he might not be able to come to our wedding if he gets jailtime (weekends, house arrest). he had pot on him too so things aren't looking good.

The pot is not going to help him and if convited you can bet he will be doing time in the county jail.....

Depending on what county.... They wont give him house arrest (or weekend jail )even the Larger ones in PA like Philadephia and Allegheny typically don't give house arrest for DUI 2nd offences.

he needs a lawyer NOW

here are the punishments

ungraded misdemeanor
12 month license suspension Plus Penn Dot will give him another 1 so that's 2 years with no DL
5 days to 6 months jail time (5 days is the minuim he will have to serve)
$300 to $2,500 fine
alcohol highway safety school
treatment when ordered
1 year ignition interlock

same

I am almost in the same type of case, but it was in NJ, not PA. And it will count as a second offense in PA for punishment purposes, but my lawyer said only the suspension will be applied and nothing else. I think its BS that all of these states have such different laws. Had it been my first DUI, in jersey, but a PA license, they would of said be safer and have a nice day. I don't get it. You serve your ARD, but it's still an offense?????

You serve your ARD, but it's still an offense?????

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NO.... ARD is in a sense a plea of conciousness of guilt... with something in exchange a clean record... This is really helpful for your normal joe on the street who is other wise a tax paying normal law following person.... that messed up and a chance to get back on track... with a clean record.

I also know people that wanted to defend the DUI but just did not have the 12,000 bucks for a lawyer and chose ARD as a more cost effetive way to make the problem go away.


the D.A is saying you where a dumb ass... and we will forget about it.... if you take classes pay a fine ect.... go on probation ect ect ect...

However do it again in 10 years and it's consider a second offence... it's in the paper work as part of the plea agreement you make with the D.A/ARD office... and you signed it if you did the ARD program.

if they let everyone do ARD-- gave them a expungment and the person did the same crime again... and did the same thing... no one would take the program serious.. and it would not be effective....

people would drink and drive.... and just do it again knowing they could do ARD..

That makes no sense...

its the state cutting you a break.. to get back to normal life with a clean record.

I agree 100%. I totally do. PA has the tiered BAC charts, but my lawyer said that doesn't come into play with my offense. Year suspension. Ungraded misdemeanor. Same as the first one.

I'm not going to fight anything about it. I deserved this and am thankful the cop pulled me over before I hurt someone or myself. I blew a .16 and that was not any way to be operating a car. I just want what's fair; be it jail time, suspension, fines, etc. As long as I know, I have an easier time processing it in my head and adjusting to life as it comes.

you can bet you will be going to jail....

the judges don't have any leay way with this ...

they have mins and maxs for jail time.. off the top of my head I think the min is 5days in jail for a second DUI... longer up to a year if you get a bad judge who is hard on DUI...

I would consider fighting it.. it will be on your criminal record forever... and will effect getting a decent job for some time to come....

your choice... but more with this than just jail...

possibly you taking care of you and if you have a family I would take it very serious.

paguy88 said:

you can bet you will be going to jail....

the judges don't have any leay way with this ...

they have mins and maxs for jail time.. off the top of my head I think the min is 5days in jail for a second DUI... longer up to a year if you get a bad judge who is hard on DUI...

I would consider fighting it.. it will be on your criminal record forever... and will effect getting a decent job for some time to come....

your choice... but more with this than just jail...

possibly you taking care of you and if you have a family I would take it very serious.

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the 2nd was in NJ, not in PA. don't know if I mentioned that, but the ramifications will not be what PA would impose on a normal 2nd PA DUI.

I will not face a judge in PA, just in NJ.

irish77 said:

I will not face a judge in PA, just in NJ.

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and how will this "just in NJ" judge help?

It will be treated as a second DUI in NJ as well..

NJ punishments will apply and here is what you will be facing..

DUI/DWI Second Offense

$500 to $1,000 monetary fine
48 to 90 days imprisonment
up to 2 years driver’s license suspension
possible vehicle interlock device
30 days community service

best of luck

paguy88 said:

and how will this "just in NJ" judge help?

It will be treated as a second DUI in NJ as well..

NJ punishments will apply and here is what you will be facing..

DUI/DWI Second Offense

$500 to $1,000 monetary fine
48 to 90 days imprisonment
up to 2 years driver’s license suspension
possible vehicle interlock device
30 days community service

best of luck

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Thanks for your opinion. I am just going off of what I've been told this week by two lawyers; one in PA and one in NJ. If they're wrong, then it will be a surprise to me. If it's treated like a 2nd DUI/DWI in NJ and the above penalties apply to me, I am ready to face the music. You are the first person to state the above penalties. I am not saying you are wrong. I don't know if you're trying to scare me, but above you have 48 to 90 days imprisonment and you just happen to leave out "hours" after the 48. I know that this was just cut, copied and pasted, but you had to manipulate it before you posted it.....

2nd Offense:
fine between $500 & $1,000, community service for 30 days, imprisonment between 48 hours and 90 days, and 2 year revocation of driver's license

The ARD program generally provides that if you complete it, there is no conviction on your record. This is probably why the PA DUI did not carry over to NJ - because NJ will only recognize a conviction. Your attorney should check the final disposition papers in PA regarding the ARD to be sure.

I am just going to leave it up to the professionals on each side. I don't want to go one way or the other with thinking what I am facing because it will just mess with my head.

I came here for some answers and I got some answers, but I am going to take the advice of my lawyer, the courts, etc.

Thanks,
irish77

irish77 said:

Thanks for your opinion. I am just going off of what I've been told this week by two lawyers; one in PA and one in NJ. If they're wrong, then it will be a surprise to me. If it's treated like a 2nd DUI/DWI in NJ and the above penalties apply to me, I am ready to face the music. You are the first person to state the above penalties. I am not saying you are wrong. I don't know if you're trying to scare me, but above you have 48 to 90 days imprisonment and you just happen to leave out "hours" after the 48. I know that this was just cut, copied and pasted, but you had to manipulate it before you posted it.....

2nd Offense:
fine between $500 & $1,000, community service for 30 days, imprisonment between 48 hours and 90 days, and 2 year revocation of driver's license

The ARD program generally provides that if you complete it, there is no conviction on your record. This is probably why the PA DUI did not carry over to NJ - because NJ will only recognize a conviction. Your attorney should check the final disposition papers in PA regarding the ARD to be sure.

Click to expand...

It was a copy and paste job from lawyer web site but good catch maybe thats why they do it?... not ment to scare you.. just reality...

Next form what I read it will not be a jury trial... that stinks!

you stated

This is probably why the PA DUI did not carry over to NJ

what do you mean here?

why it will not count as a second offence?

hey, honest mistake. well, the ARD cancels out a conviction in NJ, but for PA sentencing purposes the "charge" rolls up to the 2nd DUI in PA, but for purposes of sentencing and punishment, PA can't throw down jail sentences....

basically, my lawyer, another lawyer, and my friend who is an officer said that while it would be nice to punish these people twice, people would never get any better if two states threw both books at them. so in NJ, I am subject to the penalties of a first offender when they see that I do not have a first conviction, but HAVE been in ARD. In NJ, had I not done the ARD, I would of been up ****'s crick even worse. BUT, in PA, for all intensive purposes, they are stating that the charge (be it a conviction or otherwise) is a 2nd charge of DUI and if the NJ charge sticks, the PA "charge" will be a 2nd DUI. thus the year suspension....

confusing yes. a little gray. very, but I understand it. the thing is, I thought ARD erased a record of a DUI becuase you actually sign to "not guilty by attendance and successful completion of diversionary program**************", BUT, that not guilty still doesn't mean you weren't charged.

ugh. that gave me a headache trying to sort that out in my own head. my lawyer said "man, you're lucky you didn't get this in PA or you'd be looking at jail time right off the bat....."