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18+ Child has Guardianship forced on him by lawyer for... messy house?!

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RG2

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
My question involves a person located in the state of: Ohio

This is a complicated and weird issue.
18+ child with leukemia and bad migraine issues, lives with parents. They all help each other out.. the mother is currently in a rehabilitation center for knee and walking problems, almost ready to come home. Father and son were told that the house, which has become quite cluttered with only the two guys there for all of this time, with the mother away and with them spending most of their time trying to help with her problems, and the son's. it should also be noted that the mess did not consist of food, or anything that could pose any direct health risks, it was just piles of papers and boxes and such, most of which were being used for various things all the time. It just looked bad, more than anything.

The father obtained a lawyer to get guardianship over his wife during the time she was medicated and not thinking right, and to help with his wife's obtaining Medicaid and other issues with her situation. The delay in getting the messy house cleaned has been brought up several times, even though the son has been working on it as best he could considering his own issues.

The lawyer wanted to hire in a service to go through their house and clean up the "garbage". It was explained that the clutter was not really garbage, but mostly important medical papers and other important things, setimental holiday decorations, important mail, bits and pieces of electronics and other items that they did not want to get lost or inadvertently thrown out by someone who had no idea what they were. The son took it upon himself to volunteer to clean everything up that was necessary, stating also that he would not want some strangers going and sorting through all his personal belongings and deciding how to organize them for the same above reasons, nor did the father, or even the mother. When the lawyer asked about the delay in cleaning, the father sort of used the son as a scapegoat, saying that the son would not "let" an outside service come in the house to go through his property. (Even though the father basically shared the same sentiment). Also mentioning that the son went to special education throughout school for socializing problems, (yet never diagnosed with any mental impairment, on the contrary he is quite intelligent).

The lawyer, (being the caring guy that he is), comes up with the idea of convincing the father to let him impose guardianship over the son, with him (the lawyer) being the guardian... then the lawyer could do as he pleases with his cleaning crew, who then could go through the son's property and what not, and ship the son away to a "home" or something. Now, he didn't say it this way to the father until after he basically tricked him into signing part of the petition, and basically a blank check so he would get paid from the mother's trust fund for this.

Several days later, they told the father to keep everything secret from his son, so they could all come in the house as a "surprise", including the lawyer, with his doctor friend in tow. They confronted the son and ask him questions for 5 minutes about what medicines he took, who his doctor's were, (which he answered, not understanding who they were or what this was about), and then left.

When what this all really meant for the son (and the family) hit the father, the father absolutely wanted this canceled and stopped. Unfortunately, the lawyer would not take his calls, or acknowledge any of the several messages the father left telling him he wanted this whole guardianship thing withdrawn.

The son was shocked and upset when a court investigator served the notice to him. Obviously, the son requested an appeal, and since the father also wanted it stopped, thought it would be no big deal. But apparently the lawyer seems to be trying to pursue this on his own, even though he supposed to be the father's lawyer. The lawyer has also been in touch with some relatives who are also helping with the mother's finances, etc., who also remember the son as being non-talkative and shy, probably adding fuel to the "mentally impaired" angle.

The son, upset about the whole thing, used a bond from his grandmother to pay for a lawyer, just as a precaution, still thinking this all was so absurd, anyone who talked to him for 2 minutes could tell he wasn't mentally impaired. (So he thought).

The hearing approached, and the father and the son both went together. The father's lawyer and the lawyer the son had, both went into a room and talked for a half an hour. the Father and Son were both called into the conference room at the courthouse, with the son's lawyer basically saying that the hearing was postponed, and the only chance they had to avoid the guardianship, was to allow the other lawyer bring his team of cleaners into their house in clean as they wish, while they LEAVE their own house as they do it.

Isn't this one of the most blatant Civil Rights violations that could ever be requested someone allow? Who in their right mind would allow a team of people to come in their house and rifle through all of their personal belongings?
I would think you would have to be mentally incompetent to allow such a thing, not have it prove you aren't. And this is from the lawyer who is supposed to be helping the son avoid this mess. What could this other lawyer possibly have said to leave this as the only option? Basically, they told the other lawyer that the cleaning was already mostly done, and they want to clean everything themselves, and the lawyer said that he would still come with his cleaning crew, and if it was already clean to their satisfaction, then he would release the cleaning crew. Of course anyone sees the loophole here, it's at the lawyer's discretion, what is "clean" enough for him.

Absolutely none of this sounds right in anyway, whatsoever. What is giving this lawyer so much power over this family suddenly? Even the son's lawyer seems to be caving to him, in what was thought to be a simple thing to dismiss.
What is going on here, and how does one fight this insanity without caving in and allowing civil rights be violated by being forced to allow a lawyer and strangers to ransack their home and private property if they do not wish? With the son being forced into becoming ward of the lawyer if they do not comply, ( and no guarantee that he won't, even if they do comply). And this is supposed to be America? I would say they should just take their chances with the judge at the now delayed hearing, but again, even the lawyer trying to help the son even said that that the guardianship would probably go through if they did not comply with the other lawyer's demands. What is going on here, and what advice would anyone have? This whole thing is causing an already stressed family nothing but more stress and pain.

Thanks for reading this far, and for all input.
 


cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Exactly what I asked him down the street.

I'm betting it's the son.
 

CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
What are the odds on there being far more to this story than OP would like us to know?

:cool:
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I basically wrote a book above, what else do you need to know? I'll gladly answer.
In your missive above, you stated that son has a lawyer. Son should be communicating with his lawyer about this matter.
 

RG2

Junior Member
There would be no ransacking if you had actually cleaned the things up and out.
That is exactly what they have spent every chance they have had, doing, given the restrictions they are under. They have clutter, but it's not like rotting food items, or anything that would pose any sort of risk or code violation, they live in their own home. I don't see how anyone can go onto someone's property and decide ho orderly they have to have their house and how they need to organize things. Last I checked, this is America, no? They are not Hoarders, I've honestly seen houses much worse.
My question pertains to forcing a guardianship on someone because you do not like how they arrange their house. That seems wrong any way you look at it, regardless of anything else. The "mess" is not harming anyone's health, but the stress from this most certainly is. you must also remember that they have been taking care of it themselves, but this does not seem to be good enough unless lawyers cleaning service is employed. There is tons of money from the mother's trust fund in this for the lawyer, and no other rational reasoning as far as I can see.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That is exactly what they have spent every chance they have had, doing, given the restrictions they are under. They have clutter, but it's not like rotting food items, or anything that would pose any sort of risk or code violation, they live in their own home. I don't see how anyone can go onto someone's property and decide ho orderly they have to have their house and how they need to organize things. Last I checked, this is America, no? They are not Hoarders, I've honestly seen houses much worse.
My question pertains to forcing a guardianship on someone because you do not like how they arrange their house. That seems wrong any way you look at it, regardless of anything else. The "mess" is not harming anyone's health, but the stress from this most certainly is. you must also remember that they have been taking care of it themselves, but this does not seem to be good enough unless lawyers cleaning service is employed. There is tons of money from the mother's trust fund in this for the lawyer, and no other rational reasoning as far as I can see.
The "mess", as you put it, would likely be seen as the stash of hoarders by most others.
 

RG2

Junior Member
In your missive above, you stated that son has a lawyer. Son should be communicating with his lawyer about this matter.
He is, but as I have said, his lawyer seems to be caving in to the demands of the control-freak lawyer. Nobody should ever be forced to have people go through their property, without a warrant, that is. They have done nothing illegal, it IS their property.
(The parents').
 

PayrollHRGuy

Senior Member
You don't have to have rotting food to have a code violation.

I went back and reread your first post. It honestly sounds like a description of every episode of Hoarders ever aired.
 

RG2

Junior Member
The "mess", as you put it, would likely be seen as the stash of hoarders by most others.
I'm sure it is. But just about everything that is out is something that is being used, it was just more convenient for them to have it left laying out on tables at the time. Their life has been doctors and jobs. Making the house look nice is not a priority currently, and understandably so. Regardless, I don't see how that's any business of anyone but them, seeing as it is their private home. The law has a hard time doing anything about true Hoarders, because of a person's civil rights, so how is it they seem to be allowed to be attacked because of leaving medical papers out, and boxes of holiday decorations or what not, that they just have not prioritized because of everything else going on which truly is a priority? Isn't that the homeowner's own free choice?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
My question involves a person located in the state of: Ohio

This is a complicated and weird issue.
18+ child with leukemia and bad migraine issues, lives with parents. They all help each other out.. the mother is currently in a rehabilitation center for knee and walking problems, almost ready to come home. Father and son were told that the house, which has become quite cluttered with only the two guys there for all of this time, with the mother away and with them spending most of their time trying to help with her problems, and the son's. it should also be noted that the mess did not consist of food, or anything that could pose any direct health risks, it was just piles of papers and boxes and such, most of which were being used for various things all the time. It just looked bad, more than anything.

The father obtained a lawyer to get guardianship over his wife during the time she was medicated and not thinking right, and to help with his wife's obtaining Medicaid and other issues with her situation. The delay in getting the messy house cleaned has been brought up several times, even though the son has been working on it as best he could considering his own issues.

The lawyer wanted to hire in a service to go through their house and clean up the "garbage". It was explained that the clutter was not really garbage, but mostly important medical papers and other important things, setimental holiday decorations, important mail, bits and pieces of electronics and other items that they did not want to get lost or inadvertently thrown out by someone who had no idea what they were. The son took it upon himself to volunteer to clean everything up that was necessary, stating also that he would not want some strangers going and sorting through all his personal belongings and deciding how to organize them for the same above reasons, nor did the father, or even the mother. When the lawyer asked about the delay in cleaning, the father sort of used the son as a scapegoat, saying that the son would not "let" an outside service come in the house to go through his property. (Even though the father basically shared the same sentiment). Also mentioning that the son went to special education throughout school for socializing problems, (yet never diagnosed with any mental impairment, on the contrary he is quite intelligent).

The lawyer, (being the caring guy that he is), comes up with the idea of convincing the father to let him impose guardianship over the son, with him (the lawyer) being the guardian... then the lawyer could do as he pleases with his cleaning crew, who then could go through the son's property and what not, and ship the son away to a "home" or something. Now, he didn't say it this way to the father until after he basically tricked him into signing part of the petition, and basically a blank check so he would get paid from the mother's trust fund for this.

Several days later, they told the father to keep everything secret from his son, so they could all come in the house as a "surprise", including the lawyer, with his doctor friend in tow. They confronted the son and ask him questions for 5 minutes about what medicines he took, who his doctor's were, (which he answered, not understanding who they were or what this was about), and then left.

When what this all really meant for the son (and the family) hit the father, the father absolutely wanted this canceled and stopped. Unfortunately, the lawyer would not take his calls, or acknowledge any of the several messages the father left telling him he wanted this whole guardianship thing withdrawn.

The son was shocked and upset when a court investigator served the notice to him. Obviously, the son requested an appeal, and since the father also wanted it stopped, thought it would be no big deal. But apparently the lawyer seems to be trying to pursue this on his own, even though he supposed to be the father's lawyer. The lawyer has also been in touch with some relatives who are also helping with the mother's finances, etc., who also remember the son as being non-talkative and shy, probably adding fuel to the "mentally impaired" angle.

The son, upset about the whole thing, used a bond from his grandmother to pay for a lawyer, just as a precaution, still thinking this all was so absurd, anyone who talked to him for 2 minutes could tell he wasn't mentally impaired. (So he thought).

The hearing approached, and the father and the son both went together. The father's lawyer and the lawyer the son had, both went into a room and talked for a half an hour. the Father and Son were both called into the conference room at the courthouse, with the son's lawyer basically saying that the hearing was postponed, and the only chance they had to avoid the guardianship, was to allow the other lawyer bring his team of cleaners into their house in clean as they wish, while they LEAVE their own house as they do it.

Isn't this one of the most blatant Civil Rights violations that could ever be requested someone allow? Who in their right mind would allow a team of people to come in their house and rifle through all of their personal belongings?
I would think you would have to be mentally incompetent to allow such a thing, not have it prove you aren't. And this is from the lawyer who is supposed to be helping the son avoid this mess. What could this other lawyer possibly have said to leave this as the only option? Basically, they told the other lawyer that the cleaning was already mostly done, and they want to clean everything themselves, and the lawyer said that he would still come with his cleaning crew, and if it was already clean to their satisfaction, then he would release the cleaning crew. Of course anyone sees the loophole here, it's at the lawyer's discretion, what is "clean" enough for him.

Absolutely none of this sounds right in anyway, whatsoever. What is giving this lawyer so much power over this family suddenly? Even the son's lawyer seems to be caving to him, in what was thought to be a simple thing to dismiss.
What is going on here, and how does one fight this insanity without caving in and allowing civil rights be violated by being forced to allow a lawyer and strangers to ransack their home and private property if they do not wish? With the son being forced into becoming ward of the lawyer if they do not comply, ( and no guarantee that he won't, even if they do comply). And this is supposed to be America? I would say they should just take their chances with the judge at the now delayed hearing, but again, even the lawyer trying to help the son even said that that the guardianship would probably go through if they did not comply with the other lawyer's demands. What is going on here, and what advice would anyone have? This whole thing is causing an already stressed family nothing but more stress and pain.

Thanks for reading this far, and for all input.
I read it all. You don't know everything. They need to speak to their attorney and asking the attorneys questions.
 
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