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18+ Child has Guardianship forced on him by lawyer for... messy house?!

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commentator

Senior Member
I call complete B.S. This is the son, he has the mental illness. (Can't you hear it talking here?) And both attorneys are reasonable individuals who have gotten a look at the house and are truly appalled. After all, as you told us on the other forum, they thought you had some problems in your past too. Really good friend of the family knows all this. What is going on is that by much noise and argument, you are attempting to bully your father into doing what you want done, which is nobody bothers my stuff, mom comes home. Right? This thing that two different lawyers are wanting to get some legal ropes on, refusing to do for you. What is it exactly that YOU want to happen, poster?
 


RG2

Junior Member
Again, if the attorney is not the trustee of the trust, then I suggest that dad hire another attorney, who can inform the first attorney that he is fired, and demand the return of the trust checkbook and anything else that the attorney is holding. However, I have a feeling that somehow the attorney has been made trustee of the trust, and if I am right, that is a serious problem.
This is definitely something to look into. I never knew there was such a thing as this, and I'm guessing they might not have either. I'll try to get in touch with one of them today, and tell them they need to check on this. if the lawyer did somehow make himself Trustee of the trust, maybe the father should definitely talk to another lawyer. problem is, even the son's lawyer would not talk to the father, because of some rule about a lawyer or not talking to another lawyer's client. Dang, this stuff can get so complicated. I have a feeling you might be right about the lawyer making himself trustee of the trust, just for the fact that he is in fact keeping the checkbook. I do know though that the lawyer does need the father to sign the checks, if that means anything? he literally has had the father sign blank checks a few times for him.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I'm not going to read all of the back and forth with a third party. However, it occurs to me that Momma won't be coming home until the house is safe for her condition. Having dealt with family in rehab for physical issues, I've had social services come to the house to make sure it was safe for my LO to come home. That there was adequate clear space for walking, toileting facilities accessible, safe access to necessary areas of the house - and/or necessary accomodations made for same (i.e. gates/crates for the dogs, hospital bed downstairs, etc.).

Perhaps Dad/son need to invest in some filing cabinets, storage totes, etc. And yeah - litterbox in the kitchen? Eeww (and yes, I have cats). If the cat was peeing elsewhere, I'd bet the house smells of it. BTDT.
 

RG2

Junior Member
I call complete B.S. This is the son, he has the mental illness. (Can't you hear it talking here?) And both attorneys are reasonable individuals who have gotten a look at the house and are truly appalled. After all, as you told us on the other forum, they thought you had some problems in your past too. Really good friend of the family knows all this. What is going on is that by much noise and argument, you are attempting to bully your father into doing what you want done, which is nobody bothers my stuff, mom comes home. Right? This thing that two different lawyers are wanting to get some legal ropes on, refusing to do for you. What is it exactly that YOU want to happen, poster?
Wow, And you think I have mental problems? :eek: Dude, you are unhinged. Psychotic rant, much? The son is my friend, and he is a borderline genius, if anything. I've never said anything about them thinking anything about me, they don't even know me. (The attorneys?) I said the father initially led his attorney to believe that the son was preventing cleaning or the reason for the mess, most of the stuff is the dad's. It was easier for him just to throw his kid under the bus instead of taking responsibility. I don't think he did this to be malicious, rather it was just an easy explanation to get off of the subject. The son's attorney has never been to their house. Where do you get that the son is trying to bully the father? The son and the father are on the same page, although of course the son was pretty pissed about this guardianship thing, but even before he was notified, the father was already trying to retract it, not really realizing at the time the lawyer tricked him into agreeing to it, what it all meant.
Quote: "This thing that two different lawyers are wanting to get some legal ropes on, refusing to do for you."
You do realize that sentence makes no sense, right? Just saying.
What do I want? Advice to help them. I thought that's what this forum was for, not attacking people. they are good people, aren't they entitled to civil rights like everyone else? Personally, I don't care how messy somebody's house is, that doesn't mean you take their rights away, because it is their house, and should be their choice. the homeowner should be the only person that has a say in how messy his own house is, and the son who lives there needs to abide by the homeowner's wishes as long as he lives there. Not anyone else's.
Since when can a lawyer come in in decide he can make all of the decisions and set all of the rules in another person's home? Then literally try to make himself and controller of the kid that lives there? Literally taking away all of his rights? What's next, if the Dad starts disagreeing, the lawyer will try to get guardianship over the father?
To me, this is one of the most ridiculous and abusive things I have ever heard of, using guardianship to basically take control of people, and take their rights away, for any reason whatsoever. Even the worst hoarders that you see on TV, the law can't do anything about them. (And *force* is not the way to deal with hoarding problems, regardless. If you research the issue, which I'm sure you haven't, you approach hoarders with compassion and understanding, and the concern is directed more at the underlying psychological and emotional issues at hand). This is America, and it's their property, and people in this country can do whatever the hell they want on their property as long as it violates no laws, (which usually involves infringing upon others rights), as it should be.
If somebody tried to come to your house and tried to dictate how they wanted things to look inside your home, you would probably kick their ass out on the street for even suggesting it, telling them it's your home and you will do as you please. Because that is a civil right given to us under our constitution. Therefore, wouldn't you call this a civil rights violation of the most extreme kind? It's the principle, more than anything.
 

RG2

Junior Member
I'm not going to read all of the back and forth with a third party. However, it occurs to me that Momma won't be coming home until the house is safe for her condition. Having dealt with family in rehab for physical issues, I've had social services come to the house to make sure it was safe for my LO to come home. That there was adequate clear space for walking, toileting facilities accessible, safe access to necessary areas of the house - and/or necessary accomodations made for same (i.e. gates/crates for the dogs, hospital bed downstairs, etc.).

Perhaps Dad/son need to invest in some filing cabinets, storage totes, etc. And yeah - litterbox in the kitchen? Eeww (and yes, I have cats). If the cat was peeing elsewhere, I'd bet the house smells of it. BTDT.
The litter box in the kitchen is definitely not good, but it was a stopgap measure, since one cat has a urinary tract issue or something, and wouldn't travel all the way to the litter box in the basement or wherever they had it before. so it did work to prevent any more Kitty accidents. They probably just need one of those enclosed litter boxes or some such thing.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
This is definitely something to look into. I never knew there was such a thing as this, and I'm guessing they might not have either. I'll try to get in touch with one of them today, and tell them they need to check on this. if the lawyer did somehow make himself Trustee of the trust, maybe the father should definitely talk to another lawyer. problem is, even the son's lawyer would not talk to the father, because of some rule about a lawyer or not talking to another lawyer's client. Dang, this stuff can get so complicated. I have a feeling you might be right about the lawyer making himself trustee of the trust, just for the fact that he is in fact keeping the checkbook. I do know though that the lawyer does need the father to sign the checks, if that means anything? he literally has had the father sign blank checks a few times for him.
The lawyer is not the trustee (or at least not the sole trustee) if dad has to sign the checks. The lawyer could be a co-trustee however which is equally problematic. If dad is the only one signing the checks then he can simply cancel the checks in the checkbook with the bank, and get new checks and a new checkbook. Dad should NEVER give the attorney or anyone else a blank, signed check.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
What do I want? Advice to help them.
Generally speaking, the volunteers here are loathe to provide input to third parties, as they tend to have only partial information regarding the relevant situation. The *best* way to help your friend/his father is to have one of them create their own account here and post about their own legal issue.

p.s. Even "geniuses" can have mental issues... In fact, many do.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
There are two possibilities. Either you are a friend of the son, or you are the son.

If you are a friend of the son, then you do not know all the details, no matter how close you are to the family or how much you think you know. If you are the son, then you are hardly unbiased.

In either case, strangers on a message board cannot solve this problem for you.

Have a nice day.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Wow, And you think I have mental problems? :eek: Dude, you are unhinged. Psychotic rant, much? The son is my friend, and he is a borderline genius, if anything. I've never said anything about them thinking anything about me, they don't even know me. (The attorneys?) I said the father initially led his attorney to believe that the son was preventing cleaning or the reason for the mess, most of the stuff is the dad's. It was easier for him just to throw his kid under the bus instead of taking responsibility. I don't think he did this to be malicious, rather it was just an easy explanation to get off of the subject. The son's attorney has never been to their house. Where do you get that the son is trying to bully the father? The son and the father are on the same page, although of course the son was pretty pissed about this guardianship thing, but even before he was notified, the father was already trying to retract it, not really realizing at the time the lawyer tricked him into agreeing to it, what it all meant.
Quote: "This thing that two different lawyers are wanting to get some legal ropes on, refusing to do for you."
You do realize that sentence makes no sense, right? Just saying.
What do I want? Advice to help them. I thought that's what this forum was for, not attacking people. they are good people, aren't they entitled to civil rights like everyone else? Personally, I don't care how messy somebody's house is, that doesn't mean you take their rights away, because it is their house, and should be their choice. the homeowner should be the only person that has a say in how messy his own house is, and the son who lives there needs to abide by the homeowner's wishes as long as he lives there. Not anyone else's.
Since when can a lawyer come in in decide he can make all of the decisions and set all of the rules in another person's home? Then literally try to make himself and controller of the kid that lives there? Literally taking away all of his rights? What's next, if the Dad starts disagreeing, the lawyer will try to get guardianship over the father?
To me, this is one of the most ridiculous and abusive things I have ever heard of, using guardianship to basically take control of people, and take their rights away, for any reason whatsoever. Even the worst hoarders that you see on TV, the law can't do anything about them. (And *force* is not the way to deal with hoarding problems, regardless. If you research the issue, which I'm sure you haven't, you approach hoarders with compassion and understanding, and the concern is directed more at the underlying psychological and emotional issues at hand). This is America, and it's their property, and people in this country can do whatever the hell they want on their property as long as it violates no laws, (which usually involves infringing upon others rights), as it should be.
If somebody tried to come to your house and tried to dictate how they wanted things to look inside your home, you would probably kick their ass out on the street for even suggesting it, telling them it's your home and you will do as you please. Because that is a civil right given to us under our constitution. Therefore, wouldn't you call this a civil rights violation of the most extreme kind? It's the principle, more than anything.
Mental illness can affect people across the spectrum of intelligence.

Ever hear of "A Beautiful Mind"? While I'm not saying that your "friend" has schizophrenia, I *am* trying to point out that extremely intelligent people can be mentally ill as easily as the rest of us. Just like otherwise intelligent people can do really stupid things - like not wearing seatbelts.

The litter box in the kitchen is definitely not good, but it was a stopgap measure, since one cat has a urinary tract issue or something, and wouldn't travel all the way to the litter box in the basement or wherever they had it before. so it did work to prevent any more Kitty accidents. They probably just need one of those enclosed litter boxes or some such thing.
How many cats are we talking about? More or less than a dozen?
There is probably more than one room on the first floor - even the living room would be preferable to the kitchen for a litter box.

O don't know what your "friend" can legally do. However, a psychological evaluation could be helpful. It could either show that your "friend" is within the range of functional adults, or point to where "he" needs help. Is your "friend" currently going to school and/or employed?

My point is, if he cannot go to school or work because of his medical condition, which is not going away, and as an adult he cannot live independently, a guardianship just might be the legally right thing.
 
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CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
Wow, And you think I have mental problems? :eek: Dude, you are unhinged. Psychotic rant, much? The son is my friend, and he is a borderline genius, if anything. I've never said anything about them thinking anything about me, they don't even know me. (The attorneys?) I said the father initially led his attorney to believe that the son was preventing cleaning or the reason for the mess, most of the stuff is the dad's. It was easier for him just to throw his kid under the bus instead of taking responsibility. I don't think he did this to be malicious, rather it was just an easy explanation to get off of the subject. The son's attorney has never been to their house. Where do you get that the son is trying to bully the father? The son and the father are on the same page, although of course the son was pretty pissed about this guardianship thing, but even before he was notified, the father was already trying to retract it, not really realizing at the time the lawyer tricked him into agreeing to it, what it all meant.
Quote: "This thing that two different lawyers are wanting to get some legal ropes on, refusing to do for you."
You do realize that sentence makes no sense, right? Just saying.
What do I want? Advice to help them. I thought that's what this forum was for, not attacking people. they are good people, aren't they entitled to civil rights like everyone else? Personally, I don't care how messy somebody's house is, that doesn't mean you take their rights away, because it is their house, and should be their choice. the homeowner should be the only person that has a say in how messy his own house is, and the son who lives there needs to abide by the homeowner's wishes as long as he lives there. Not anyone else's.
Since when can a lawyer come in in decide he can make all of the decisions and set all of the rules in another person's home? Then literally try to make himself and controller of the kid that lives there? Literally taking away all of his rights? What's next, if the Dad starts disagreeing, the lawyer will try to get guardianship over the father?
To me, this is one of the most ridiculous and abusive things I have ever heard of, using guardianship to basically take control of people, and take their rights away, for any reason whatsoever. Even the worst hoarders that you see on TV, the law can't do anything about them. (And *force* is not the way to deal with hoarding problems, regardless. If you research the issue, which I'm sure you haven't, you approach hoarders with compassion and understanding, and the concern is directed more at the underlying psychological and emotional issues at hand). This is America, and it's their property, and people in this country can do whatever the hell they want on their property as long as it violates no laws, (which usually involves infringing upon others rights), as it should be.
If somebody tried to come to your house and tried to dictate how they wanted things to look inside your home, you would probably kick their ass out on the street for even suggesting it, telling them it's your home and you will do as you please. Because that is a civil right given to us under our constitution. Therefore, wouldn't you call this a civil rights violation of the most extreme kind? It's the principle, more than anything.
But is he a stable genius? Asking for a friend.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
But is he a stable genius? Asking for a friend.
Bwah. "Mr. Ed" thanks you.

Getting back to the cats. It's pretty standard to have one box per cat plus one. So.... I have two cats, three litter boxes. When I had four cats? Five boxes. I have a relative with 10 cats - eleven boxes. Not a single one in the kitchen. Really - if the cat had a UTI requiring a box *right there*? It should have cleared up quickly enough with proper meds/care.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Bwah. "Mr. Ed" thanks you.

Getting back to the cats. It's pretty standard to have one box per cat plus one. So.... I have two cats, three litter boxes. When I had four cats? Five boxes. I have a relative with 10 cats - eleven boxes. Not a single one in the kitchen. Really - if the cat had a UTI requiring a box *right there*? It should have cleared up quickly enough with proper meds/care.
Animal control told me at one time that two cats per box, as long as the cats were ok with it, (using it properly) was fine. I have never needed more than that. I just scoop daily and everybody is happy.

My mom keeps her litter box in her kitchen...in a cubby with a curtain in front of it.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Animal control told me at one time that two cats per box, as long as the cats were ok with it, (using it properly) was fine. I have never needed more than that. I just scoop daily and everybody is happy.

My mom keeps her litter box in her kitchen...in a cubby with a curtain in front of it.
That is not what is being done here.

"They probably just need one of those enclosed litter boxes or some such thing." <-- Implies that the current situation is not enclosed. Watch your step and keep your shoes on.

And even enclosed, it's disgusting.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
LDi.... I scouted around online after reading your post, and..... it's pretty universal - litter boxes = # cats + 1. Actually, 1.5 x # cats, rounded up. Yes, cats that get along really well can do with fewer but they are not pack animals like dogs - they prefer their privacy. With two cats, I have one box in a bathroom upstairs, one tucked in a corner of the foyer and the third in the basement. They both tend to shun the middle one, but... it's there if needed. And yes, I scoop daily. Otherwise, the dogs do. ;) (I admit it - beagles are gross!)
 
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