50/50 custody and out of state rights

[speedcam]

i live in wisconsin, and my wife has three kids all minors. their father has broken all court orders he has on him( ie.. to pay 50% of insurance bill & medical bills) has not since 2002. state went to take him to court for child support, he quit his job and has not worked since( Oct.of 2003). now he planned to take the kids to Florida for vacation. daughters grades dropped from A's & B's to D's & F's, mother told him no. he told us that we have no say and that the trip was already paid for. he told us that he has the right to do what ever and go where ever he wanted with his kids. now the last time we went to court we had dates and times written in the orders for custody so we had them specified. he planned on leaving on our day, and being gone for 2 weeks. our days start at 7:00 am every Wednesday & go thursday & every other FRi, Sat,Sunday. on the days they go back to their dad's, his dad's start at 7:00 am also. if he takes them do we have the right to report him for Kidnapping if they are not back on our day. also what should we do if he does not bring them to school the day he wants to leave, figuring he would just keep them home and leave from there?

thanks for all and any advice

speed
( sorry for spelling on first post)

 

[VeronicaGia]

Speedy, we've told you before, there's no "WE" in your situation. Those are not your kids. You may love them as if they were, but they are not.

The situation is a mess. The kids grades are dropping, and there is a price to pay for that. And dad is being an idiot by demanding the kids when the court order says otherwise. Are you punishing the child for the bad grades by not letting the child go or are you really trying to punish the father?

Until the adults in your situation stop acting like kids this will never change.

 

[speedcam]

Veronica, i understand what your saying, and i know there's no "we" (just habit i guess). ok the whole situation is this, child services went over to his house for a bunch of problems ( supposedly) to which i got accused of calling them( not the case in all actuallity they called me here at work) i told him i didn't know what he was talking about and from there it was later found and admitted to by the kids that they lied about everything. then he told us he was taking them to Florida for vacation. we ( she ) had no problem whith that and agreed as long as conditions were met. bottom line is they have not been and are not going to be met because school is done here in a couple weeks time. after a week or so he told us the boys were not going because they lied, fine , i didn't agree but not my place to say. finally after about a week and a half of constantly calling and accusations i got sick of it and said to him not to call am=nymore and if he does to leave a message. not to hang up and try every other phone we have until we pick up. then after that he told us that it wasn't right of my wife to tell anybody that there wasn't an easter bunny and that they were impressionable.( agreed) but then in the same breath tells us that he has had them up north in a bar all night long, and that she messed them up because they were asking strangers for money. then from there it has been . no homwork getting done nor finished for 2 1/2 weeks and then more lies. so she told him no she wasn't going since she lied and can't complete things from days ago.

i know it sounds really bad but in all actuallity its worse in writting than in "real time".

speed

 

[stealth2]

Could you try to make that a little more clear - none of it made any sense. Sorry.

 

[speedcam]

4) conditions were not met , the kids were awareUM. I AGREE STEALTH( I JUST RE-READ IT MYSELF)........

ok her we go... ( short version)

1) started off when the child services were called to go to his house about guns and knives to the kids heads and throats. i got accused of calling them. i did not, they in fact called me here at work about it since they had my number from once before when they were called on him.

2) then he told my wife and i that he was taking them to florida for 2 weeks, this was agreed to as long as conditions were met and both mom and dad agreed to them.

3) he called just after Easter and told my wife she had no right telling the kids that there was no Bunny, ( maybe) because at their age they are impressionable, but then in the same breath he stated that he had them up north in bars all night.( there's an impression on an 8 yr. old)

4) about a week later he said that the boys were not going because they lied. ( my feelings were then don't favor one) i did not say anything though.

5) the agreed upon conditions were not met and realisticly can not be with only a couple weeks remaining of school. so my wife said she was not allowed to go either.

6) he told my wife that she couldn't stop him from going anywhere he wanted to with his kids( key word here is kids), and that if he wanted to go he will and he will take the daughter if he wanted to since it has already been paid for.

7) problem is that he wants to leave at 3:00 am on Thursday morning, we get the kids back on Wednesday night after school( even though the divorce papers say her day starts at 7:00 am.

8) during the conversation he told her to talk to his lawyer if she had a problem with the fact he was taking her anyways, she told him if the kids aren't back she will press kidnapping charges on him and he hung up.

now he has taken off with the kids before and did not return them for 2 days after, at that time the police told us since the divorce papers did not specify dates and times of custody that he had 24 hrs after they were to be back originally. but after we got these things stated in the paperwork that if he did it again it would be considered kidnapping.
is this correct and does he have the right to take them if it is not his 50% of the time at the specific time?

speed
( i hope these cleared it up alittle)

 

[speedcam]

this mean we're "stuck" again?

 

[stealth2]

All of this backstory does nothing but muddy the waters. What are the provisions for visitation, what provisions are there for vacations, what is Mom's objection to the trip? Take out all the details about knives and guns, and what the hell all else.

 

[speedcam]

OK (taking out all the B.S.) ........ it comes down to this he first said that he was taking all three kids, then it changed to just the daughter because the boys were liers. her thoughts were he has three children not one if he would ever do anything with ALL of them things my be different, but he only does this with the girl. every time he plans something , excuses come and wham!!! the boys aren't allowed to go.
the papers say they have 50 / 50 custody and placement, except on holidays.( these rotate each year). taking kids out of state has to be a mutual agreement and must be notified with in 30- 45 days of doing so. but can not move out of state. her reason is because the conditions of the agreement were not met( home work not done, grades not brought up, and lying as well has started.) she feels she is being disrespected by her daughter by not doing what has been asked of her. she has also told her what the conditions were and that if they were not met she wouldn't be able to go. all three of them had agreed to this.
my feelings on the other hand are quite a bit different but since i was so kindly reminded earlier in this post, i have no say.

i hope this cuts enough crap out and brings us to the point. thanks

speed

 

[stealth2]

If it's contrary to the orders (which it appears to be since the parents have to agree on it), he can't take them. If he takes them, she can file against him for contempt. It's not likely to be kidnapping. However, he could potentially take it to court and get a court order allowing him to take one or all of the kids on vacation.

 

[speedcam]

ok thanks Stealth,

but now i have part two of this........

what if his (so-called) girlfriend takes them with his permission but not ours ( my wifes)? she is not legal guardian or anything else, so i would assume this would be correct?

 

[speedcam]

just got served........

ok my wife just got served today to take the child on vacation. court is on June 1st. he is requesting we pay for court costs and lawyer fees due to "our lack of respect of his rights and our dis-approval due to her being naughty".
what a joke!!!!...... first she lied to us and second she never completed her homework. but still he says the boys aren't going becaused they lied to him..... ( double standard?) my questions now is... can we now hit him for the monies owed to us for the medical & insurance he hasn't paid us for nearly 2 years as contempt for not doing as the court order says. and can we reverse the charges onto him??? any other advice or comments welcomed.....

thanks
speed

 

[VeronicaGia]

Your wife will need to file her own separate contempt motion. Don't muddy the waters by bringing up a separate issue in this court hearing.

It sounds like he doesn't have the visitation time to take the kids when he wants to take them. A judge could go either way..saying that since it is not his court ordered time, too bad. However, a judge could also say that mom isn't fostering the parent child relationship between father and kids.

 

[stealth2]

Having gone through something similar, Mom needs to be prepared to start packing the kids for the trip. He's very likely going to get it.

The other stuff, she's probably not going to get to bring up on the 1st. The motion would need to be drawn up and he'd have to be served in a timely manner - and there likely isn't time for that at this point. It would have to be a different hearing.

 

[speedcam]

ok i understand it would /should be a different hearing, but we were told before by our attorney that we couldn't go after him for contempt because he quit his job. now since he had stated that the trip has already been paid for, wouldn't that mean he has the(or at least) had the money to pay us(my wife)?

 

[stealth2]

Not necessarily. How does Mom know that a friend or family member didn't pay for the trip?