• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

A case for abondonment of copyright

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

guestfornow

Junior Member
A case for abandonment of copyright

What is the name of your state?I've been doing some research on this matter and have tried posting on other sites to get others opinions so I thought I'd try, here.

A person finds a box of old home movie film at a flea market (or tag sale, or garage sale or estate sale or in a garbage can for that matter). The films contain no copyright markings as one might expect if they were just personal movies someone took.

Could this be considered a case of abandonment under copyright law given these facts?

1) The copyright marking is not found on the film
2) The film is the original and only copy (IE: if it is lost or destroyed there is no other)

(spelling corrected, sorry)
 
Last edited:


HomeGuru

Senior Member
guestfornow said:
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?I've been doing some research on this matter and have tried posting on other sites to get others opinions so I thought I'd try, here.

A person finds a box of old home movie film at a flea market (or tag sale, or garage sale or estate sale or in a garbage can for that matter). The films contain no copyright markings as one might expect if they were just personal movies someone took.

Could this be considered a case of abondonment under copyright law given these facts?

1) The copyright marking is not found on the film
2) The film is the original and only copy (IE: if it is lost or destroyed there is no other)
**A: no............unless the movies were the James Bondonment 007 series.
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
Copyrights are not trademarks -- you can't "accidentally" abandon a copyright. The only way a copyright can be abandoned is by the copyright owner explicitly giving up the rights to a copyright and handing the work over to the public domain. It doesn't happen automatically -- if you ever needed to use "abandonment" as a defense to copyright infringement, you would need to prove that the copyright owner handed the work over to the public domain. Tough to do without a writing, or without the copyright owner testifying that he did it.

Now, you may be thinking of forfieture -- that's where a work loses copyright protection because it was published without a copyright notice prior to all of the Berne rules coming on line. However -- the problem you are going to have is proving that the work was, in fact, published -- because if it wasn't published, it didn't need a copyright notice, and nothing needs a notice today, and all of the rules are completely retroactive.

Realistically, if these films are one-offs and very old, your chances of getting sued are probably slim -- however, what you are comteplating is almost certainly copyright infringement, because it is pretty tough to divest something of its copyrights without an affirmative act.
 

guestfornow

Junior Member
Thank you for the very detailed reply. From what you have said and from what I have been able to learn from reading my copy of Nimmer on Copyright (3rd edition) it would seem that the lack of a notice of copyright affords a creative work more protection under the law (especially now under current copyright law in the US) than if the notice was present.

A clear notice allows for the thorough examination of the work's copyright or the current lack thereof. With no notice there is no clear condition to judge whether publication has ever taken place and with no publication there can be no loss of protection. This is the part that is so perplexing to the novice like myself.

Therefore, if you were advising a client concerning the commercial use of "found film"...

1) Lacking a clear notice of copyright from which to determine disposition, and
2) Lacking a signed notice of transfer from the creator (or heirs) to prove ownership

I would conclude your advice would be the film cannot be used for any commercial purpose (ie. in a documentary or as part of another creative work) without violating copyright. Fair use aside, it would still constitute violation as fair use is a defense after the violation, not an implied right to use the work prior to it.

Thus, the owner of "found film" has only one option. The outright sale of the film as a creative work unto itself... "collector to collector, no rights implied or given" much like a painting or other work of art.

(not putting words in your mouth... but would very much like to hear your thoughts)
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
it would seem that the lack of a notice of copyright affords a creative work more protection under the law (especially now under current copyright law in the US) than if the notice was present.
The lack of a notice doesn't offer more protection -- it just makes it more difficult for someone wishing to lawfully use something that they themselves didn't create. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but it's not really the same as saying the copyright owner has "more" protection. I would argue the opposite -- that the lack of a copyright notice makes it MORE likely that a work will be infringed, because people who don't know the law (and copyright is not something a lot of people have a lot of experience in, unlike, say, criminal law, Law & Order, CSI and all that...) may be more likely to believe that something without a notice is automatically in the public domain. Since this isn't the case, it places a heavier burden on the copyright owner to police his rights.

A clear notice allows for the thorough examination of the work's copyright or the current lack thereof. With no notice there is no clear condition to judge whether publication has ever taken place and with no publication there can be no loss of protection. This is the part that is so perplexing to the novice like myself.
The problem here is that the difference between notice and no notice is no longer legally significant (in most cases) -- the difference between a registered copyright and an unregistered copyright is now where the big difference comes in. And registered copyrights are quite easy to find -- you just search the database at www.copyright.gov and if it is not there, no registered copyright.

The distinction between a registered and unregistered copyright is very important, because a registration puts the public "on notice" that a copyright exists -- it may not be as easy as simply looking at page 1 of a book to find out, but it's still pretty easy. Since the public is on notice, the remedies for infringement of a registered copyright can be quite stiff. Conversly, if the copyright is NOT registered at the time of infringement, the infringer is deemed to be NOT "on notice," and therefore the remedies for the copyright owner are much, much more limited.

So, even though it may seem that the owner of an unregistered copyright has an "advantage" over the registered copyright owner, in fact, the owner of the unregistered copyright may find that it is either impossible or prohibitively expensive to enforce his copyright.

Further, the "publication v. protection" issue you allude to really only impacts works that were published without copyright notice before about 1965 (I think all of the later rules are retroactive back until about 1965, but I may be a year or two off) -- many (but not all) works that were published without a notice are now in the public domain.

Thus, the owner of "found film" has only one option. The outright sale of the film as a creative work unto itself... "collector to collector, no rights implied or given" much like a painting or other work of art.
But that's true anyway -- the copyright is separate from the tangible object covered by the copyright. So, even if you know the guy who made the film, unless he transfers to you the copyright along with the film, you only own the film and the right to play it yourself at home, and that's all that you can transfer to someone else. It's like buying a copy of a DVD -- all you own isd the right to play that DVD at home (and a couple other ancillary rights), and all you can transfer to someone else is the same bundle of rights that you yourself hold.

I have a sinking suspicion that I am helping someone with their homework (not everyone has a copy of Nimmer at home...), but I posted anyway because I hope the info might be useful to others...
 

guestfornow

Junior Member
Nope, not a law student. Got the Nimmer book at a flea market a few years back. Never even looked at it until a few days ago when all this came up. Why, do you think I missed my true calling? :confused:

Again, thank you for your time and expertise.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top