A Summer Question

[mdgtfrmhll]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

This is my first time posting and could use some non biased advise.

I am a parent of a ten year old son. I am the custodial parent and he has visitation with this father in Washington every other Christmas, every other spring break and 6 weeks during the summer. This has seemed to work out fine until this year. His father has not always exercised his visitation for one reason or the other, but I have even found myself paying for the full price of plane tickets so that he could go for a visit or two. This past Christmas holiday was mine, but I was in the same city as he since I was visiting my folks, and let him have him on four separate occasions, including one overnight and Christmas Eve.

For the most part we have spent the last eight years pretty much in an amicable state. Our son has two older brothers that live with their father, their mother has decided she does not want to have anything to do with them. He likes to visit with them, but doesn't always feel as though what he wants is considered as much as the rest of the family.

This summer, our son wants to go to his week of sleep away camp, which he has gone to on my time for the past three years and I don't mind (I never got to go to camp and so I have always tried to make sure he gets to experience things I didn't), and he wants play football, which starts the last week of July. He gets out of school the middle of June and goes back the day after Labor Day. He has told his father that he only wants to come for four weeks this year because he wants to be able to do the other things as well this summer and if he goes to Washington for the entire six weeks he will have to miss out on stuff that he wants to do. His father said he will not budge on his time and that our son will just have to choose which one he does not want to do the most, camp or football. He has told our son that he has too many things planned and they can't not have all six weeks. Our son informed him that the things he has planned are things that he and his other two boys enjoy, but our son isn't a fan of going on shooting outings and fishing weekends. He doesn't have the same interests and his father does not take that into account.

I have gone ahead and done my part and bought our son's return ticket for six weeks to the day. Am I wrong for thinking that our son's feelings should be taken into account and let him only have to go for four weeks. I could hear G crying in his room as he was on the phone last night with his father begging him to understand that he wanted to go to camp and do football and that he didn't want his father to tell his brothers he didn't want to see them; it took everything I had not to go in and get the phone. How do I make this right for the kid and not step on his father at the same time, or is it best I stay out and let them handle it however much it seems to distress our son.

Any advice you have would be appreciated.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[TheGeekess]

Dad has a court order. You have a court order. The order rules. Son can be taught a good life-lesson here. You can't always do everything you want. He'll have to prioritize which activity he wants to do.

 

[wileybunch]

Am I wrong for thinking that our son's feelings should be taken into account and let him only have to go for four weeks.

You're not wrong for thinking that, but neither is Dad wrong for wanting what amounts to pretty limited time not being chipped away further. It's the breaks of parents not staying together and having to split time and is especially harder when parents don't choose to live in the same area.

 

[Ohiogal]

Why is son led to believe that camp and football practice are more important than his father?

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

I would have to say that he thinks football and camp seem to be more important to him because of the lack of interest shown by his father. It's one thing to want to be dad during the summer and at Christmas when it's your time but if the rest of the year there is not much contact a child can't be expected to all of a sudden think he should make the visitation his number one priority. It's sad and it sucks for everyone involved but when you get two calls from your dad in three months and your emails to your father go unanswered and your phone calls never get returned I'm not sure why football and camp wouldn't be more important.

Our son does not feel that he is a priority to his dad. Plain and simple. His birthday this past Oct came and went without so much as a phone call. I use to send cards myself for him when the kid was younger but he is too smart for that now. He noticed the postmark wasn't Alaska.

His father moved to Alaska when g was three and then we moved to California four years later while his father still lived in Alaska. It was only after he was evicted for the third time in six months that he moved back to washington to live with his wife's parents. He has very liberal visitation (two overnights a week when he was two and any time I was at work he had him unless he was at work) and and after our son became school age the summers would rotate weeks. He moved seven months later and during that seven months he saw our son a total of seven times. Five of those times was when I took g to get pancakes while his father was working.

I would love for our son to have more of a relationship with his father but ubfotunately until his father finally decides that he is going to show our son that he thinks spending time even if it is just a phone call or email I'm not sure g will think that spending time with his dad is more important.

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

That should have said had liberal visitation. I could not get back to edit it. I must have done something wrong.

 

[Ohiogal]

I would have to say that he thinks football and camp seem to be more important to him because of the lack of interest shown by his father. It's one thing to want to be dad during the summer and at Christmas when it's your time but if the rest of the year there is not much contact a child can't be expected to all of a sudden think he should make the visitation his number one priority. It's sad and it sucks for everyone involved but when you get two calls from your dad in three months and your emails to your father go unanswered and your phone calls never get returned I'm not sure why football and camp wouldn't be more important.

Our son does not feel that he is a priority to his dad. Plain and simple. His birthday this past Oct came and went without so much as a phone call. I use to send cards myself for him when the kid was younger but he is too smart for that now. He noticed the postmark wasn't Alaska.

His father moved to Alaska when g was three and then we moved to California four years later while his father still lived in Alaska. It was only after he was evicted for the third time in six months that he moved back to washington to live with his wife's parents. He has very liberal visitation (two overnights a week when he was two and any time I was at work he had him unless he was at work) and and after our son became school age the summers would rotate weeks. He moved seven months later and during that seven months he saw our son a total of seven times. Five of those times was when I took g to get pancakes while his father was working.

I would love for our son to have more of a relationship with his father but ubfotunately until his father finally decides that he is going to show our son that he thinks spending time even if it is just a phone call or email I'm not sure g will think that spending time with his dad is more important.

Here is the thing: Visitation is a priority to the courts. Junior goes for his entire visitation. Dad and you parent differently but dad wants his visitation and is exercising his visitation as approved by the court. He is doing what he has to do. Hence junior follows that and YOU as a responsible mature adult make junior understand that visiting his father is NOT negotiable. The fact that junior thinks it is IS YOUR FAULT. Hence, it is something YOU need to rectify.

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

I wish I could say that this problem was my fault and could be easily rectified, and I guess with the small portion that I have presented it does seem that way. I agree that junior does need to spend visits with his dad, but if his dad wants junior to feel as strongly about visitation and he should, the dad should make sure he doesn't pick and choose visitation. He is suppose to have him for spring break this year, but that isn't happening and that reason is because dad doesn't feel that spending the money to bring him from CA to WA for just one week is worth it, and told junior as much. Needless to say, now that the father has decided that he isn't going to abide by the plan for spring break, I now have to come up with an extra $150 so that I can have him at the YMCA that week while school isn't in session, which of course he said he can't pay his required portion of.

How can I make sure, other than telling junior that he has to go visit his father for the six weeks outlined in the parenting plan which I have told him from the beginning, can I make it so that he understands that visitation is important to his father. He does not feel like he is a priority to his father and I would love for someone who has possibly been in this situation where the other parent picks and chooses which visitation he is going to actually do and which one he is not going to do, to be able to explain to a child that he is important to the father and this should be important to him when the other parents actions prove otherwise. I can not afford this time to pay for the spring break ticket for his father, which I have done so many times in the past I guess he just expects it now. This year with the economy and everything being so slow at work, I do not have the additional funds.

Junior was never told by me that he could pick or choose what to do and to ask his father. I had already talked to the coach for football and explained the situation about visitation and had already gotten permission for him to miss the one week of football, but when his father told him the other day that he was not going to WA for spring break as we had been planning on, he then wanted his father to allow him to have a different schedule for summer.

I guess this isn't really a legal issue since I have never once not followed what was set forth in regard to visitation as long as the father was willing to do visitation, this is more about how do you make sure that even though the actions of the other parent don't always show it, he thinks he is a priority to his father. Words and talks from me can only go so far and I honestly want to make this easier on everyone involved. Junior is only getting older and he is already way smarter than his years, he spots BS a mile away and it makes it that much harder for me. I'm not good at lying, especially to my son, but I find myself having to do that more an more as he gets older. I guess I just need some advice more than I need to rectify the problem....does anyone have anything a bit more constructive than that? I am trying to fix the problem and would love some feedback. Thanks

 

[wileybunch]

I wish I could say that this problem was my fault and could be easily rectified, and I guess with the small portion that I have presented it does seem that way.

I don't necessarily think it's anyone's "fault", it just IS.

I agree that junior does need to spend visits with his dad, but if his dad wants junior to feel as strongly about visitation and he should, the dad should make sure he doesn't pick and choose visitation.

That's not the way the law looks at it. This is not an extreme situation by any measure.

He is suppose to have him for spring break this year, but that isn't happening and that reason is because dad doesn't feel that spending the money to bring him from CA to WA for just one week is worth it, and told junior as much. Needless to say, now that the father has decided that he isn't going to abide by the plan for spring break, I now have to come up with an extra $150 so that I can have him at the YMCA that week while school isn't in session, which of course he said he can't pay his required portion of.

That is Dad's choice. My kids' Dad said he couldn't afford to do one of his two visits this year (used to be 3/year) citing the economy and while I thought the way he portrayed things was kinda lame, I'm not omniscient and maybe it really does make sense and I am not using this against him. The kids already have a difficult time trying to keep a bond with him with the few visits he has and the rare phone calls. You really are not doing the best you can do to help your son through this situation and will have endless struggles and your son will come out the loser.

How can I make sure, other than telling junior that he has to go visit his father for the six weeks outlined in the parenting plan which I have told him from the beginning, can I make it so that he understands that visitation is important to his father.

Do not tell him that he HAS to go because of a parenting plan. Tell him he HAS to go because the time is important to his father. That answers your question of how to make him understand visitation is important to his father, as well.

I had already talked to the coach for football and explained the situation about visitation and had already gotten permission for him to miss the one week of football, but when his father told him the other day that he was not going to WA for spring break as we had been planning on, he then wanted his father to allow him to have a different schedule for summer.

And, Dad said "no". So that's that. Your son and his father need their relationship. And, son needs to feel that he can express his feelings to his dad. Let him know he really wants to do XYZ and then let Dad make his decision. Don't triangulate the relationship between them and let them work it out. Heck, kids in intact families get mad at their parents for decisions made. It's part of life.

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

Thanks...I do agree with all of your points and that is what I am doing. Staying out of it. I let him know yesterday his ticket was bought, his dad and brothers were very excited that he was coming and that they were planning lots of fun activities. I also let him know that he is going to also get to participate in the camp and football and that this summer will be perfect because he gets to go visit his dad and brothers and get to go to camp and be on the football team.

That is all taken care of.....and he is good with all of that....

But how do I take care of the problem of explaining to him why it is his father doesn't call him, answer his emails, return his phone calls or even just answer his phone calls. He is a ten year old boy, and when he comes to me and I tell him that dad is just busy right now and it isn't because he doesn't love you, its because he is just very busy with other things, the kid isn't buying it. How do I make him realize that he is just as important to his father as the other two boys, when the actions of the father do not show it?

 

[CJane]

Why is son led to believe that camp and football practice are more important than his father?

Slighty off-topic and not directed at OG personally... but we ALWAYS say this sort of thing and it rings true ... but at the same time, ANY extra-curricular is going to take time away from one parent or another.

Wild plays BBall, Unruly does brownies and Akido. Both 'take time away' from BOTH parents. Our Saturdays are sucked up from here to kingdom come with some activity or another. Mondays too. Lots of Tuesdays. Neither child believes that those activities are 'more important' than either of their parents - but how is a child supposed to be 'involved in the community' (something the courts think quite highly of since it figures into the 'best interests' listings) if the child isn't allowed to participate in the activities offered?

If the CP is 'willing to give up' some of THEIR time w/the child, shouldn't the NCP get the 'pleasure' of doing-so as well? In my experience, judges have been VERY flexible w/visitation schedules when sports or academics require things to be shifted. I know of three cases which I'm very close to in which visitation was switched from a set schedule to "At the CP's AND CHILDREN'S discretion provided such does not interfere with the sports and/or academic teams which the children choose to be involved in"

 

[Ohiogal]

Slighty off-topic and not directed at OG personally... but we ALWAYS say this sort of thing and it rings true ... but at the same time, ANY extra-curricular is going to take time away from one parent or another.

Wild plays BBall, Unruly does brownies and Akido. Both 'take time away' from BOTH parents. Our Saturdays are sucked up from here to kingdom come with some activity or another. Mondays too. Lots of Tuesdays. Neither child believes that those activities are 'more important' than either of their parents - but how is a child supposed to be 'involved in the community' (something the courts think quite highly of since it figures into the 'best interests' listings) if the child isn't allowed to participate in the activities offered?

If the CP is 'willing to give up' some of THEIR time w/the child, shouldn't the NCP get the 'pleasure' of doing-so as well? In my experience, judges have been VERY flexible w/visitation schedules when sports or academics require things to be shifted. I know of three cases which I'm very close to in which visitation was switched from a set schedule to "At the CP's AND CHILDREN'S discretion provided such does not interfere with the sports and/or academic teams which the children choose to be involved in"

Whose decision is it to allow the child to participate in activities? That is a big part of this as well. The CP is giving permission for the child to be in camp and football -- does the NCP have a say so in this situation?

 

[nextwife]

how do I take care of the problem of explaining to him why it is his father doesn't call him, answer his emails, return his phone calls or even just answer his phone calls. He is a ten year old boy, and when he comes to me and I tell him that dad is just busy right now and it isn't because he doesn't love you, its because he is just very busy with other things, the kid isn't buying it. How do I make him realize that he is just as important to his father as the other two boys, when the actions of the father do not show it?

How about this , Mom:

Some people just don't use electronic media that much.

My husband, for example, is a wonderful dad, but hates sitting on the phone or using email. He barely uses a computer at all. Additionally, if there is a time difference , it may often be too late in the evening for Dad to call when he gets home.

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

Whose decision is it to allow the child to participate in activities? That is a big part of this as well. The CP is giving permission for the child to be in camp and football -- does the NCP have a say so in this situation?

I spoke with the father about Camp and Football in December when I was in Washington with my son for Christmas and he was very agreeable and thought it was great that junior wanted to become involved with a sports and said he knows how much junior loves going to sleep away summer camp. He also at that point said he realized it might make it so that he would lose a week or two, but that since I had always been flexible and helped him with money and allowed extra visits i.e. getting to spend four of my seven days in Washington during my Christmas with his father, then he could be flexible as well. This is why I did not think it was going to be a problem for him. He had already agreed that it would be okay. But this was also during a time when I was doing something for him, and also before he got back home where the lovely SM (step monster as my son refers to her) got to put her two cents into the situation.

Again, I do not want to do anything to take away from juniors time with his father, my take on the situation is that I have always done everything I could to foster a good relationship between junior and dad. When junior was little and dad forgot a b-day or Christmas, I always had presents waiting already wrapped in the wing just in case. I have always made sure that while my son was still too young to know the difference, that everything went very smooth for him. That was my mistake because once junior got old enough to notice that the calls didn't come very frequently, that emails went unanswered, etc. I could no longer fix things and that has been a great hurt. I thought I was helping ease stuff when he was young and I realize that was my mistake because now he is older and its coming to bite me because I couldn't keep up the charade. It seems to be an out of site out of mind type situation with daddy-o.

Junior will go to dads this summer and hopefully this Christmas as well. The plan states every year he either goes the first week of Christmas to dads and is with me from 6:00 p.m. Christmas eve or else it is the reverse. Dad mentioned to me that this was too hard on him because he would rather either get him the entire vacation or not at all, so two years ago we switched on our own without going to court. This year he will go to his dad's again for all of Christmas break. Again, it's what works best for his dad so that is what I agreed to. I have junior the majority of the year and when I can I do what is easiest as to avoid conflict.

I guess what made all of this so upsetting to me was that first of all, dad already had told me back in December he would be okay with having some of his summer reduced if needed so that junior could participate in everything he was wanting to do this summer, and when it came to play, he didn't follow through, which I do understand is his right as a father with visitation. I hope I have not conveyed through any of my posting that I feel any differently. I just wish he would have followed through on what he agreed.

 

[mdgtfrmhll]

How about this , Mom:

Some people just don't use electronic media that much.

My husband, for example, is a wonderful dad, but hates sitting on the phone or using email. He barely uses a computer at all. Additionally, if there is a time difference , it may often be too late in the evening for Dad to call when he gets home.

If that were the case that would be one thing, but dad is all over myspace, facebook, uploading videos of the other boys on you tube, emailing photos of the other boys to family, emailing jokes or just spam mail to me, but for some reason, doesn't take the time to answer emails from the kid. Last summer I bought and sent a very nice web cam that junior took up with them and they installed on their computer so that junior and I could do web visits while he was up in Washington. It has not been used once since junior came back home last August even though it has been suggested on numerous occasions. He is very electronically inclined when he wants to be.

Also we are in the same time zone and his father is not working again. I guess he could be out, but he also knows that juniors bedtime is nine o'clock and I can't imagine he is out after nine p.m. every night, but I could be wrong. I would think that the fact that a dad might not like to use the computer or sit on the phone would not matter. If you are a NCP and you are interested in making sure you have contact with your child, you do things you might not enjoy just because you are a parent and it is your responsibility to maintain a relationship with your child regardless of what method of communication is chosen. Again, I could be wrong.