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LdiJ

Senior Member
^^^^ What I said here.

You do have an attorney - albeit an attorney who is on vacation. You really can't do anything in his/her absence anyway...again, I really don't think a message board can help you too much further. If anything, it's going to border on irresponsible, y'know?

I'm not saying this to shoo you away; I'm saying it because generalities won't help you and before we know it this is going to turn into 10 pages of back-and-forth with nothing accomplished. The very last thing you need right now is to get stressed out by things you might be reading here.
I absolutely agree with this. Your situation is far beyond an internet forum.
 


CJane

Senior Member
I hope yur daughter has a psychiatrist involved, and not just a therapist. A lot of mental illnesses are genetic....

I will say that many of the things on your list? I did with my two. And may well be considered parenting differences... (I don't blame Dad for not wanting to roam AG... it was a tortuous experperience for this Mom...)
While I agree that these would be seen by most people as parenting differences... this is not a cut and dry situation. This is a father with a serious psychiatric diagnosis, who is unmedicated, and a child who is also having psychiatric issues.

Also... whether to allow many of the things Mom listed are dependent upon the child and the child's state of mind/maturity. For example:

Twain is my 8 year old boy. He'll be 9 in January. SK8 is my eight year old stepdaughter. She will be 9 in December. Twain is very independent, has a great sense direction, is very responsible, and has a brain like a homing beacon. He is allowed to ride his bike 1/2 mile or so to the park, walk to Sunday school, run into the grocery store with a short list and some cash, etc. On the other hand, SK8, has no sense of direction, and is distracted easily. I'm not kidding when I say she got lost walking to the end of the block to attend a birthday party. I'd *never send her into a large retail store and just let her wander. I might never see her again, and not because she got snatched, just because she wandered off.

It doesn't sound to me like this child is quite ready to be left to her own devices, especially in crowded overwhelming places.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
While I agree that these would be seen by most people as parenting differences... this is not a cut and dry situation. This is a father with a serious psychiatric diagnosis, who is unmedicated, and a child who is also having psychiatric issues.

Also... whether to allow many of the things Mom listed are dependent upon the child and the child's state of mind/maturity. For example:

Twain is my 8 year old boy. He'll be 9 in January. SK8 is my eight year old stepdaughter. She will be 9 in December. Twain is very independent, has a great sense direction, is very responsible, and has a brain like a homing beacon. He is allowed to ride his bike 1/2 mile or so to the park, walk to Sunday school, run into the grocery store with a short list and some cash, etc. On the other hand, SK8, has no sense of direction, and is distracted easily. I'm not kidding when I say she got lost walking to the end of the block to attend a birthday party. I'd *never send her into a large retail store and just let her wander. I might never see her again, and not because she got snatched, just because she wandered off.

It doesn't sound to me like this child is quite ready to be left to her own devices, especially in crowded overwhelming places.
And I don't disagree. But the court may see OP's child as one who is overly coddled bt Mom, with Dad trying to push some independence. The psych issues (of either or both) need to be proven. Mom's say-so, especially wrt Dad, will be unlikely to cut it.
 

plshelp99

Member
And I don't disagree. But the court may see OP's child as one who is overly coddled bt Mom, with Dad trying to push some independence. The psych issues (of either or both) need to be proven. Mom's say-so, especially wrt Dad, will be unlikely to cut it.
It may sound like coddling, but it isn't. I let her loose in our local toys r us and other stores that she knows the layout of and that aren't too large and crowded. I sit on the park bench while she goes off and plays. As long as I can see her, I'm good.

Her father is taking her to The American Girl store in Rockefeller Center, which is a MOB SCENE. He stood at the entrance while she roamed the store, had to get a salesperson to help her and also went to other floors on her own. Same thing with the toys r us in times square. Those places are huge and are constantly crowded.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
It may sound like coddling, but it isn't. I let her loose in our local toys r us and other stores that she knows the layout of and that aren't too large and crowded. I sit on the park bench while she goes off and plays. As long as I can see her, I'm good.

Her father is taking her to The American Girl store in Rockefeller Center, which is a MOB SCENE. He stood at the entrance while she roamed the store, had to get a salesperson to help her and also went to other floors on her own. Same thing with the toys r us in times square. Those places are huge and are constantly crowded.
Yes, I have been to both store. In Times Square. FAO, too.

But it would seem your child came to no harm. So Dad's judgment was apparently ok. In those instances. And the court is likely to see it the same way. I sent my 7yo into the Men's Room on his own at Yankee Stadium.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Yes, I have been to both store. In Times Square. FAO, too.

But it would seem your child came to no harm. So Dad's judgment was apparently ok. In those instances. And the court is likely to see it the same way. I sent my 7yo into the Men's Room on his own at Yankee Stadium.
OMG!!!!!!!! Really? You did that to your poor son??? For shame!! :p
 

plshelp99

Member
Yes, I have been to both store. In Times Square. FAO, too.

But it would seem your child came to no harm. So Dad's judgment was apparently ok. In those instances. And the court is likely to see it the same way. I sent my 7yo into the Men's Room on his own at Yankee Stadium.
Yes, no harm thankfully, however, she was upset by this, and asked him to go with her, he said that he'd rather not go into such a 'girly store' even though he told her all week he was taking there for her birthday.

As you said, it may be parenting differences. I wouldn't send my kid to the bathroom at yankee stadium. Just a difference I suppose, but you also know your child and what they're capable of.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
Hello. I will explain some of the things she told me. I live in New York City, just so you have an idea.

1. Double parked at a bus stop, gave her $5 and told her to get him a cup of coffee at a dunkin donuts across the avenue - she was 6 at the time.
2. Falls asleep on the train during long rides. She tries to wake him up but he falls back to sleep.
3. Leaving her alone in the museum of natural history with his cell phone while he uses the mens room (he refuses to use a family bathroom)
4. Leaving her with a stranger at the Met while he used the bathroom.
5. Sending her to the bathroom alone in citi field.
6. Stays at the exit of toys r us in manhattan while she roamed the store alone. He didn't want to go into the girl aisles (he told her)
7. Stayed at the exit of the american girl store in manhattan while she roamed the store (again didn't want to be in a girly store)
8. Left her in the childrens section of a crowded barnes and noble while he went one flight up to look at magazines.
9. Sending her to the bathroom at the circus with a stranger.
10. Leaves her alone in the park while he runs the track which is about a half block away.
11. Refuses to drive with a booster seat even though I give him one to use. He doesn't believe in them.
12. Drove his car with our daughter while it was smoking from the hood (he has subsequently crashed his car and I think he's lost his license)

These are just some of the things. Another issue I don't think I mentioned. Our daughter has been experiencing severe anxiety and OCD behaviors for about 8 weeks or so. She has something related to strep throat that attacks the brain. It's called PANDAS. She is on antibiotics and in therapy for this. I tried to talk to the dad about it and he doesn't want to acknowledge it. When it was really bad, she had a panic attack with him and he called me up wanting to know what this 'bad behavior' was about. I tried to explain, once again, that it was the PANDAS, but he doesn't believe it. I told him to discuss it with the doctor.

The scene that she caused the past two weeks was very scary. This wasn't just bratty behavior (which she has pulled before and I don't let her get away with it when it comes to her visits with her dad. This was so bad that people came out of their houses and a pedestrian wanted to call the cops.

Her panicking started right before he introduced her to his girlfriend (I told him about this PANDAS thing before I even knew that there was a gf involved...he told me that since he thinks I am crazy, then it probably is just me and that our daughter is fine.) Next visit they have, he brings his girlfriend and her son. The GF's son told our daughter that his mom and her dad were going to get married and that they kiss and things like that. She was very confused by this and I had to do the explaining because he didn't think she needed to know anything. Her social worker said it isn't a good idea for her to be exposed to either of our SO's right now because of her situation. He insists on exposing her to this woman and her child anyway.

I am sure that people will think I am giving her information, etc, but I am not. I really would like nothing more than to send my daughter to visit with her father and for them to have a good time and for them to bond more. I am the one encouraging therapy (he knows about it but doesn't want to come) so that this gets resolved.
OMG. are you going to call CPS on my husband now?
 

plshelp99

Member
OMG. are you going to call CPS on my husband now?
Look, I get it that some parents let their kids do these things. It's just a safety issue. I work for the school system in NYC. If a student told me these things, I'd be obligated to report it because it could be neglect. A mother was just arrested in NY for leaving her kid in a Lego store. Last year a little boy was raped in the bathrooms of South Street Seaport. It happens. I don't want it to happen to my child. My current lawyer, in addition to two other lawyers I spoke to about this said that this was a more serious issue due to his history.

She just turned 7 a few days ago. In school they go to the restroom with an adult. They also are escorted to offices by adults or teenage monitors. Anything can happen. My philosophy as a parent is to keep them in your sight, especially in crowded places...they do not have to be glued to you though.

Whatever I think is really meaningless because my daughter has told her father that SHE doesn't want to go anywhere with him because of these things. Maybe she would have enjoyed going around the stores with him or maybe they could have both gone into dunkin donuts to get something. I don't know. All I do know is that she is already having anxiety about their next visit.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Look, I get it that some parents let their kids do these things. It's just a safety issue. I work for the school system in NYC. If a student told me these things, I'd be obligated to report it because it could be neglect. A mother was just arrested in NY for leaving her kid in a Lego store. Last year a little boy was raped in the bathrooms of South Street Seaport. It happens. I don't want it to happen to my child. My current lawyer, in addition to two other lawyers I spoke to about this said that this was a more serious issue due to his history.

She just turned 7 a few days ago. In school they go to the restroom with an adult. They also are escorted to offices by adults or teenage monitors. Anything can happen. My philosophy as a parent is to keep them in your sight, especially in crowded places...they do not have to be glued to you though.

Whatever I think is really meaningless because my daughter has told her father that SHE doesn't want to go anywhere with him because of these things. Maybe she would have enjoyed going around the stores with him or maybe they could have both gone into dunkin donuts to get something. I don't know. All I do know is that she is already having anxiety about their next visit.
One of your other problems is going to be proving any of it. A 7yo is not going to be questioned in court. So it's going to be your word against his - and you only know of it through your daughter, right?
 

plshelp99

Member
One of your other problems is going to be proving any of it. A 7yo is not going to be questioned in court. So it's going to be your word against his - and you only know of it through your daughter, right?
I have video recordings and audio recordings of the most recent episodes involving her dad. She is also in therapy and she will have a lawyer appointed to her. I have text messages from him regarding the time he wanted her to buy him coffee. He admits it was a bad idea in hindsight in the texts. I also have witnesses to her telling the story when she came home that night (she came in the house hysterically crying).

His philosophy with trying to co parent so far has been that he "doesn't have to take any advice from me because I left him." I don't even want to give him advice, I would like to know how he feels regarding what's going on with her, and for a way we can be consistent in our parenting of her.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I have video recordings and audio recordings of the most recent episodes involving her dad.
Which episodes would those be?

She is also in therapy and she will have a lawyer appointed to her.
Good.

I have text messages from him regarding the time he wanted her to buy him coffee. He admits it was a bad idea in hindsight in the texts.
And a judge will recognize his agreeing it wasn't a great idea. No harm, no foul.

I also have witnesses to her telling the story when she came home that night (she came in the house hysterically crying).
And this is going to be meaningless - it's hearsay.

His philosophy with trying to co parent so far has been that he "doesn't have to take any advice from me because I left him." I don't even want to give him advice, I would like to know how he feels regarding what's going on with her, and for a way we can be consistent in our parenting of her.
Then you should be talkng to your lawyer about asking the court to suggest the both of you go to parenting classes and/or counseling.

I'm sorry, but it really seems you have no/little proof.
 

plshelp99

Member
Which episodes would those be?

The last two where she was screaming and crying that she wouldn't go with him. He knew he was being recorded as I told him.

Good.



And a judge will recognize his agreeing it wasn't a great idea. No harm, no foul.



And this is going to be meaningless - it's hearsay.



Then you should be talkng to your lawyer about asking the court to suggest the both of you go to parenting classes and/or counseling.

I'm sorry, but it really seems you have no/little proof.


Here is the thing, and I know I should tell my lawyer, but she is on vacation right now. I just received the papers for the court appearance and all he is asking is that our daughter gets to see his parents (which she does, have plenty of photos of them together over the past 18 months...she's seen them twice in the past week as a matter of fact) and to see her on holidays and family gatherings (again, he does see her on these days. We agreed to split the days and we also agreed to leave room in our schedules for holiday related events. There wasn't one event/holiday that she didn't attend and I have pictures to prove it).

Will the court only address these issues?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I have video recordings and audio recordings of the most recent episodes involving her dad. She is also in therapy and she will have a lawyer appointed to her. I have text messages from him regarding the time he wanted her to buy him coffee. He admits it was a bad idea in hindsight in the texts. I also have witnesses to her telling the story when she came home that night (she came in the house hysterically crying).

His philosophy with trying to co parent so far has been that he "doesn't have to take any advice from me because I left him." I don't even want to give him advice, I would like to know how he feels regarding what's going on with her, and for a way we can be consistent in our parenting of her.
I have a granddaughter who is 8. Both her mother and I will occasionally leave her at home for 10 to 15 minutes. If she is with me at work I will let her run over to the dollar store in the same strip mall as my office now and then as a treat. She loves having a couple of dollars and being able to "shop". However, its a small store, I know the employees, they know me and they know she is my granddaughter. The thought of her alone in any Manhattan big store would terrify me.

However, I would have no problem letting her go several blocks away in my neighborhood. I am in one of those old time neighborhoods where people pay attention and watch out for children.

Its all a matter of comfort zone, safety of the area, and safety in general.

I really do find it hard to imagine that a judge would find it acceptable for a child in that age group to wander alone in a large Manhatten store. However my mother, at that age, roamed all their part of Chicago. My mom tells a story about when she was 8. She seriously saved her allowance. One summer day she wanted to go to the beach and her mom said no. So, she took her saved up allowance, took the EL and went to the beach by herself. She is 79 now and describes that day as a truly "perfect" day. The water was warm and clear, she had enough money to buy lunch and she absolutely said it was worth the serious butt whomping she got when she got home...LOL.

Bottom line...I have read enough stories in the internet news in just the last month that would indicate that this dad could/should get his butt stomped for what he is doing, and an equal number of stories where the consensus is that something like that might be acceptable. For me, allowing a child of that age to wander a Manhatten big store alone is unacceptable...and doing it because the store is to "girly" is insane.

But that is just my personal opinion I am allowed to have it. Others are allowed to disagree with me.
 
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