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Age Discrimination-Littlle League Baseball

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madmike

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Arizona ADDED 4-20-05 NOTE: If you have allready read and/or replied to this just follow the replies thru #8.THANKS

Even though this might not be the appropriate forum for this question, It seems to possibly be the closest. A pro ball player might post here if they were being discriminated against on the job.
This is a unique question based on the L.L. Rules and Regulations. Minor League is where your child is suppose to gain experience to play in the Major League.The age groups are Minor League: 7-12 , Majors:10-12. Usually all 12 year olds are drafted into the majors. The 12 year olds put back into the minors can play but not pitch ( Going against the reasoning why a child is in the minors in the first place ). COULD BEING 12 YEARS BE CONSIDERED A HANDICAP AND FALL UNDER THE ADA-TITLE 3 SUPREME COURT No.00-24 PGA TOUR, INC., PETITIONER v. CASEY MARTIN (00-24) 532 U.S. 661 (2001) 204 F.3d 994, affirmed ? This Opinion does in fact discuss the L.L. in part of it's findings.
In doing research the questions have to start somewhere. So lets try this senario: One of the definitions of "DISABILITY" is having-A legal impediment,including being a minor who cannot make a contract, not a physical handicap but seems to be acceptable to the courts as a disability.Since the L.L. requires PROOF(Original Documintation or Certified copies)OF THE LEGAL AGE OF THE CHILDREN. The disrimination against AGE seems to be an accurate alligation. The only reason I was given for this Rule: A 12 year old cannot pitch in the L.L.-Minors was a saftey issue( I am not against keeping the kids safe ).They think a 12 year old may hurt the kids they pitch to that are in the same league but younger. I guess this makes sense if it was'nt for the fact that 12 year olds in the L.L.- Majors pitch to those younger than them. This rule also does not account for the ability of a person. A 10 or 11 year that has a 60 to 70 mile an hour fast ball will do more damage than a 12 year who does not. Since I pay to have my child play in the L.L. under public accommodation the child should have the same rights and access to all the aspects of the game.
If I read the ruling correctly in the Casey Martin case, it boiled down to this:You canot deny access to the game because of a persons disability,but you do not have to provide them with a game different(whether in its essentials or in its details)from that offered to everyone else. That walking is not a "fundamental" aspect of golf. The use of the cart does not essentially change the scope of the game. With this in mind the question would be : Is Not allowing a 12 year old to pitch in the L.L.-Minors a fundimental part and essential to the scope of the game? The Answer is "NO". In these circumstances the "LEGAL AGE OF 12 YEARS OLD" SEEMS TO A DISABILITY DENYING PRIVLAGES OFFERED TO EVERYONE ELSE. Could this be valid option to follow? Also looking for good ideas and resources to help me out.
 
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Beth3

Senior Member
(a) This particular board deals with discrimination in the employment relationship.

(b) Are you kidding? You want to know if being 12 years old could be considered a handicap under the ADA? Not a chance. The ADA defines a handicap as a medical condition that significantly impairs a major life function. In recent years the courts are taking an increasingly narrow and common-sense interpretation of the ADA.
 

madmike

Junior Member
Little League

Beth3 said:
(a) This particular board deals with discrimination in the employment relationship.

(b) Are you kidding? You want to know if being 12 years old could be considered a handicap under the ADA? Not a chance. The ADA defines a handicap as a medical condition that significantly impairs a major life function. In recent years the courts are taking an increasingly narrow and common-sense interpretation of the ADA.
Beth3 please check the L.L. issue I posted again. Thanks, Madmike
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
madmike said:
What is the name of your state? Arizona
Even though this might not be the appropriate forum for this question, It seems to possibly be the closest. A pro ball player might post here if they were being discriminated against on the job.
This is a unique question based on the L.L. Rules and Regulations. Minor League is where your child is suppose to gain experience to play in the Major League.The age groups are Minor League: 7-12 , Majors:10-12. Usually all 12 year olds are drafted into the majors. The 12 year olds put back into the minors can play but not pitch ( Going against the reasoning why a child is in the minors in the first place ). COULD BEING 12 YEARS BE CONSIDERED A HANDICAP AND FALL UNDER THE ADA-TITLE 3 SUPREME COURT No.00-24 PGA TOUR, INC., PETITIONER v. CASEY MARTIN (00-24) 532 U.S. 661 (2001) 204 F.3d 994, affirmed ? This Opinion does in fact discuss the L.L. in part of it's findings.
In doing research the questions have to start somewhere. So lets try this senario: One of the definitions of "DISABILITY" is having-A legal impediment,including being a minor who cannot make a contract, not a physical handicap but seems to be acceptable to the courts as a disability.Since the L.L. requires PROOF(Original Documintation or Certified copies)OF THE LEGAL AGE OF THE CHILDREN. The disrimination against AGE seems to be an accurate alligation. The only reason I was given for this Rule: A 12 year old cannot pitch in the L.L.-Minors was a saftey issue( I am not against keeping the kids safe ).They think a 12 year old may hurt the kids they pitch to that are in the same league but younger. I guess this makes sense if it was'nt for the fact that 12 year olds in the L.L.- Majors pitch to those younger than them. This rule also does not account for the ability of a person. A 10 or 11 year that has a 60 to 70 mile an hour fast ball will do more damage than a 12 year who does not. Since I pay to have my child play in the L.L. under public accommodation the child should have the same rights and access to all the aspects of the game.
If I read the ruling correctly in the Casey Martin case, it boiled down to this:You canot deny access to the game because of a persons disability,but you do not have to provide them with a game different(whether in its essentials or in its details)from that offered to everyone else. That walking is not a "fundamental" aspect of golf. The use of the cart does not essentially change the scope of the game. With this in mind the question would be : Is Not allowing a 12 year old to pitch in the L.L.-Minors a fundimental part and essential to the scope of the game? The Answer is "NO". In these circumstances the "LEGAL AGE OF 12 YEARS OLD" SEEMS TO A DISABILITY DENYING PRIVLAGES OFFERED TO EVERYONE ELSE. Could this be valid option to follow? Also looking for good ideas and resources to help me out.
Q: Could this be valid option to follow?
A: No.
 

stephenk

Senior Member
it is not a disability that your 12 year old does not play as well as some 10 year olds. he could just be a lousy player or is burned out by his parent who is vicariously living through him on the playing field.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
What you describe does not come even remotely close to meeting the definition of a disability under the ADA. You would be foolish to the point of absurdity to pursue this line.
 

madmike

Junior Member
Dissapointing Reply

stephenk said:
it is not a disability that your 12 year old does not play as well as some 10 year olds. he could just be a lousy player or is burned out by his parent who is vicariously living through him on the playing field.
stephenk, It dissapointing that your reply does not even touch on any of the issues in the question. If part of freeadvice is to put up with answers that put down any ability of any child , Then the price is to HIGH. It also seems you are just as discriminating as the L.L. is because I never mentioned the gender of the child, but since it had to do with baseball you assumed on the male gender. I do not live thru my child I only encourage , support and try to make sure that all the kids are protected and treated fairly. By the way SHE ( My Child ) took 1st place in the 50 yard dash and 400 relay in her district and state competitions. Pitched a no-hitter (for the time limits allowed in a game), Is 2nd fastest runner on her MAJOR league team and has a couple of home runs . She is also the only female playing in our L.L. Majors charter at the time. I am trying to get the rules changed so that ALL 12 year olds have the chance to use and improve on there abilities. So after you recover from your injuries ( The ones you got from falling off the high horse you think your on ) take a lesson from Seniorjudge and answer the question. Better yet get off your butt and try helping these kids,one of them just might be yours or someone you know.
 

pattytx

Senior Member
There is no employment relationship here. If you think you have a legal civil case, go see if you can find an attorney to take it and then be prepared to lose, after paying the attorney a whole bunch of money.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
madmike said:
stephenk, It dissapointing that your reply does not even touch on any of the issues in the question. If part of freeadvice is to put up with answers that put down any ability of any child , Then the price is to HIGH. It also seems you are just as discriminating as the L.L. is because I never mentioned the gender of the child, but since it had to do with baseball you assumed on the male gender. I do not live thru my child I only encourage , support and try to make sure that all the kids are protected and treated fairly. By the way SHE ( My Child ) took 1st place in the 50 yard dash and 400 relay in her district and state competitions. Pitched a no-hitter (for the time limits allowed in a game), Is 2nd fastest runner on her MAJOR league team and has a couple of home runs . She is also the only female playing in our L.L. Majors charter at the time. I am trying to get the rules changed so that ALL 12 year olds have the chance to use and improve on there abilities. So after you recover from your injuries ( The ones you got from falling off the high horse you think your on ) take a lesson from Seniorjudge and answer the question. Better yet get off your butt and try helping these kids,one of them just might be yours or someone you know.
Listen Fool, how many times do we have to tell you, you, your son or your son's son have no legal foundation for anything.

If you want to find out the hard way, then take some of the money you should have been spending on teaching your son how to play baseball and spend it on an attorney.

Because this has gone on long enough.
 

madmike

Junior Member
It's funny how easily people give up. Its one of the reasons unjust actions continue on. I was not looking to file any suit only to find some type of avenue to help change a rule that makes no sense. Based on the interviews with Williamsport ( Home of the L.L.) They can't even tell me why this rule was established in the first place. Belizebreeze mentioned going to an other league. This is an option I and many of the other parents are doing or have done . Unfortunately a lot of the families thru out the L.L. do not have the ability to go elsewhere and this of course does not fix the issue at hand. I am big enough to say that the path I took was the wrong one . But when a person can get away with murder because the gloves don't fit, then you find a way to make them fit BASEBALL GLOVES that is. There is a way to to change this ruling and I will find it. Where money seems to be so important to you it is not to me . So you can have your sons and daughters thank me when they are not sitting on the bench because of their age and/or ability. I Guaranty You will to. Take your kids to a ballgame. Thanks Time for that 7th inning stretch.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
You can argue the point as long as you like. It will not change the fact that what you are describing does not come even remotely close to meeting the definition of a disability under the ADA and you will make yourself look like an idiot by trying to go that route.

Being twelve is not a medical condition and it does not affect a major life function.
 

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