Am I the only one who is sick of the Trolls?

[JIMinCA]

As I have stated in many threads, this site is intended to be a place for people with legal issues or questions to come for HELP. However, there are a select group of TROLLS who wander around waiting for an opportunity to tell posters that they are already guilty and they are irresponsible for even attempting a defense. In my opinion, that is absolutely contrary to the intent of this site. These trolls may as well post about growing tulips... as that would be equally contrary to the intent of the site.

If I am wrong about this site's purpose, please someone inform me (no troll input, please).

I feel like I have much to contribute to this site in a very positive manner. However, I become discouraged each time the moderators fail to take any action against even the most blatant trolls.

So, I'd like to know if I am the only one tired of the Trolls, or if others would like to see something done about them as well.

 

[tranquility]

In the free marketplace of ideas, good speech elbows out bad. If a person or persons' speech appears to be worthless to the readers, the readers will tend to discount what that person has to say. Even with the concept of "troll" I am astonished how often a thread ends up containing not only the legally correct answer, but a keen sense as to what the community would decide if things ever got in front of a judge or jury. The law is more than a place to look things up and find an answer, it involves people thinking about and deciding things. The law is the framework from those decisions.

As to moderation, beware. It is my opinion from the way the list is run, that *you* are considered more of a troll than many who you accuse. Perhaps you will prove yourself to be more than a regurgitator of fight-your-ticket websites where people have more time then sense and will come to be respected. That day is not today and, with greater moderation, it would be your posts which are more at risk. Just because you answer in the way you do and believe is correct, does not mean you are correct or that yours is the only voice to be heard.

Stop accusing others of being stupid or trolls or ignorant or whatever and continue to write posts in the hope of helping someone. Cream floats. Freedom of speech works.

 

[las365]

Well said, Tranquility.

 

[>Charlotte<]

A certain single-mindedness can be tiresome, but this site is moderated, and it's not my place to decide who can post and what they can post. Nor is it yours. If you believe someone has crossed the line, you can report that post and a moderator will make the decision as to whether it's appropriate.

You yourself have a tendency to beat the same drum over and over. Constantly telling people they can get away with whatever they did is no better than constantly telling them their situation is hopeless. Encouraging people with very weak cases to incur the time, trouble, and expense to fight it in court certainly isn't, in my opinion, "helping" them.

And let's be clear: A troll is someone who frequents message boards for the sole purpose of posting inflammatory remarks in order to stir up trouble and cause mayhem. What you are describing is a group of people who state what they believe is a realistic opinion of the poster's issue. In fact, an excellent example of a "troll" would be someone who posts something like the following, which is exactly the kind of thing that should get people booted:

It must be difficult for you to go through life knowing you serve no useful purpose...

Sound familiar?

 

[HomeGuru]

As I have stated in many threads, this site is intended to be a place for people with legal issues or questions to come for HELP. However, there are a select group of TROLLS who wander around waiting for an opportunity to tell posters that they are already guilty and they are irresponsible for even attempting a defense. In my opinion, that is absolutely contrary to the intent of this site. These trolls may as well post about growing tulips... as that would be equally contrary to the intent of the site.

If I am wrong about this site's purpose, please someone inform me (no troll input, please).

I feel like I have much to contribute to this site in a very positive manner. However, I become discouraged each time the moderators fail to take any action against even the most blatant trolls.

So, I'd like to know if I am the only one tired of the Trolls, or if others would like to see something done about them as well.

**A: thank you for posting. I too am tired of the Trolls. If you don't like things here, please leave.

 

[JIMinCA]

You yourself have a tendency to beat the same drum over and over. Constantly telling people they can get away with whatever they did is no better than constantly telling them their situation is hopeless. Encouraging people with very weak cases to incur the time, trouble, and expense to fight it in court certainly isn't, in my opinion, "helping" them.

I guess you and I have a difference of opinions. When someone comes here looking for help in preparing a defense to a traffic infraction, who are you to say their case is weak? And what would you have me or other posters do in a case that YOU see as weak? Would you have me or others simply say, "you have no defense... now go pay your ticket"???

Maybe I am reading this site wrong. I thought it was where people went to recieve help preparing a defense. However, according to some, it is where people go to be told how irresponsible they are for even attempting to prepare a defense.

The fact of the matter is, I have participated in about 18 defenses in traffic infractions so far. In each one of them, most people told me there was a "weak case". However, I have been successful in getting all dismissed but one. So... it appears that what you or others may see as a "weak case", may not be so weak after all.

I have been called many names and disparriaged many times on this site. However, I am amazed at the ambivilance of those (including you) who would sit idly by while this happens, but you would actually criticize me for wanting to be too helpful with people who have a "weak case".

This site is filled with people with agendas. Some fit my definition of Troll as they wait for people to pass by and then they pounce on them with the sole purpose of demoralizing them instead of helping. Some people are agents of the state who have an obvious bias towards the state... which also is contrary to the purpose of this site. Then there are those who actually have the agenda of wanting to help people with exactly what they have asked for help with. I know which agenda I have... how about you?

If you call spending my time and effort to assist someone in providing a legitimate and legal defense for themselves "beating a drum", then I think I am ready for a drum roll...


As for my statement you quoted... it is simply a return of a personal attack. For you to make the appearance that it was unprovoked is irresponsible.

 

[JIMinCA]

As to moderation, beware. It is my opinion from the way the list is run, that *you* are considered more of a troll than many who you accuse.

To quote you.... what you "beleive is correct, does not mean you are correct..."

Perhaps you will prove yourself to be more than a regurgitator of fight-your-ticket websites where people have more time then sense and will come to be respected.

First of all... this IS a "fight your ticket" website. I sometimes quote from the only one that I have seen that is worth its salt. However, the main website that I use is the California Vehicle Code".

Stop accusing others of being stupid or trolls or ignorant or whatever and continue to write posts in the hope of helping someone. Cream floats. Freedom of speech works.

Freedom of speech does work. However, talking about an apple in a conversation about oranges is outside the scope and not appropriate... regardless of freedom of speech. Maybe you should share your lofty ideals with others on this site.

I am routinely attacked on this site when I simply try to provide the help that people are asking for. I recieve many posts and PMs of gratitude for my efforts and comments of the uselessness of Trolls. I do not simply name-call... however, I am not shy to return volley when attacked. Many people show their ignorance very plainly. Sometimes, I just recognize the obvious.

 

[>Charlotte<]

who are you to say their case is weak?

If I think their case is weak, the person who says "I think your case is weak" is who I am.

And what would you have me or other posters do in a case that YOU see as weak? Would you have me or others simply say, "you have no defense... now go pay your ticket"???

Actually, Jim, I wouldn't "have" you say anything at all. How you respond is your business.

I thought it was where people went to recieve help preparing a defense.

My perception of this site is that it's where people can get information and the opinions of people who are familiar with the law so they can handle their legal issues. I'm sure you're not ignorant of the fact that even paid lawyers have been known to advise their clients to plead guilty. Lawyer's aren't cheerleaders.

The fact of the matter is, I have participated in about 18 defenses in traffic infractions

Yes, Jim, I know. I know about your eighteen cases. I don't believe you, but I know about them. Of course, I'm not required to believe you and you're not required to prove it to me, so that's that.

I am amazed at the ambivilance of those (including you) who would sit idly by while this happens, but you would actually criticize me

I criticized you because you asked for my opinion and my opinion happens to be critical. When the guy I alluded to as "tiresome" asks me for my opinion I'll do the same for him. Until then--yeah, I'm gonna pretty much sit idly by. Again, that's between him and the owners and administrators of this site. But if you insist on imploring the masses to cast off the shackles of tyranny--hey, knock yourself out, Che.

I know which agenda I have... how about you?

I know which agenda you have, too. As for mine, it's to tell people what I think when they ask me what I think. That generally includes providing an applicable statutory reference, making a statement based on what I already know, or telling the OP where he can find the information he's looking for. Lots of times I'll throw in my opinion, and I'm going to keep doing that. Don't like it? Okay. I guess I'll just have to learn to live with your disapproval.

As for my statement you quoted... it is simply a return of a personal attack. For you to make the appearance that it was unprovoked is irresponsible.

Well, for Pete's sake, I'm not going to post the whole thread! It's obviously a response to something. I was only pointing out your hypocrisy.

The bottom line is: you can keep telling posters that if they'll only do as you say they'll win their case and you can all go out for ice cream later, and the people you're complaining about can keep explaining to them why they think it's a waste of time to fight it in court.

 

[JIMinCA]

Yes, Jim, I know. I know about your eighteen cases. I don't believe you, but I know about them. Of course, I'm not required to believe you and you're not required to prove it to me, so that's that.

Well... your bias is pretty clear now. You have no reason to doubt me other than a personal bias. I appreciate you making that statement. It clears up for me just how much weight I should give the rest of your opinions.

 

[The Occultist]

Jim, it's possible for somebody to attack you, and for you to ignore them. It's possible for you to post your advice without insulting other people. If you're going to ride your high horse, do it properly for crying out loud.

Yes, you do offer insightful advice. Even if it's not the path that some veterans on this board would advise, you still offer a route that the OP's of this board can consider. Please continue offering your advice as you see fit. But to attack other members, even if you feel it was provoked by them first, doesn't seem to be characteristic of the responsibility you seem to be advertising for.

 

[You Are Guilty]

"The Tribe has spoken."

Jim, the reason people get on your case so much is that, for all your protestations that you are the only one here actually "helping" people with their issues, the simple fact of the matter is 1) there are a lot of folks who regularly post "good" advice, whether you want to recognize it as such, and 2) you can't claim the moral victory in posts like this then say, continuing fuel your running feud with a certain other forum member. If you don't like someone's reply, you ignore it. If you think they are legally wrong, you post your reasons why and THEN ignore it.

What I think you fail to realize is that it's not a contest to see how many people listen to your advice. Your goal, should you have one, is to propagate information which others may find useful, NOT to force them to follow your word at all times.

Interestingly, this is essentially what Tranquility was trying to tell you in much more eloquent terms and we already see how you've responded to him. Criticism is a part of life, and even more so in relation to the law. This is not a place to have thin skin.

 

[Maestro64]

Gee Jim, I thought you knew this, the site is called "FreeAdvice" as they always say you get what you pay for. Also free advice is like opinions everyone has one and some smell better than others and there is nothing you and I can every do about it.

I personally think your real issue is some people assuming everyone coming here looking for free advice has no clue, deserve what they got, they are just basic law breakers and their list of reason go on and on why the person is guilty and should just own up and pay. It will never crossed their mind the person might have been wronged or the police are less then on the up and up, the police have no understand of the laws they are enforcing or even the courts you have to deal with, or better yet the law was written in away that is design to bring money in. First, it is all true, but I have seen you provide people with information and let them decide which category of the above is true for them.

It is very easy for people to simply read between the lines, infer things never said by the poster, or do a 7 sec search of google and declare their guilt or innocence. There are the cases where the person clearly stated they did what the ticket said they did but they are here trying to find a way out of the ticket since we all know most tickets are not about saving lives but more about towns source of revenue.

In the end most people do not take any of this advice since they decide for themselves what they need to do. The problem is the people who think everyone is guilt otherwise they would not have gotten a ticket come across so strong since it just so simple to tell someone "Your Guilty" instead of asking questions to understand what happen or providing information or facts. None of us were there so no one can say for sure what happen.

Jim just keep up the good work.