arbitration (Mann Bracken) question

[captainmorgan66]

What is the name of your state? NY

I haven't seen this specific question yet(but then again I am new, so if it has been asked, please forgive me). In fact I am surprised I haven't seen more people writing about bad experiences with Mann Bracken, LLC out of Atlanta. The OC was Chase Bank, MB bought this charged off debt. Before I sent my validation/cease and desist letter, these people were calling here 50 times a day!! NO LIE, one day, ALL DAY, every 5 minutes!! No kidding! I finally sent the letter AND had my phone # changed. I have TRIED to talk to these people, I really did. Finally, I just gave up.

I have gotten a lot of helpful advice from Budd Hibbs (buddhibbs.com)

I received a letter From Mann Bracken telling me they planned on proceeding with an arbitration. BH told me to send a letter of dispute to them asking for validation. The way he told it, Mann Bracken OR the NAF (national arbitration forum) CANNOT proceed without validating the debt first pursuant to the FDCPA 15 USC 1692g sec. 809. I sent a letter to MB, certified return receipt requested. I got my little green card back on June 26th. According to Mr. Hibbs and everyone else I have talked to they have 30 days to validate my dispute. I have heard nothing yet from Mann Bracken, but have received a letter from the NAF that they have signed a 'case coordinator' for my arbitration. (BH told me I needed to send notification to BOTH parties,) BH also told me that the NAF will not be able to continue with arbitration until MB has validated, yet there is a bunch of jibberish (why do they make it so hard for the common man to understand?? Do they do that on purpose??) about
Requests (it says) **All requests, other than stays and voluntary dismissals, must be filed with the forum no later than August 7, 2006. All requests must be submitted in accord with NAF rule 18 that requires, among other provisions, that a request be filed with proof of service or the request documents on all parties. There are no fees for requests filed within the 45 day time period, unless otherwise provided in the fee schedule.
Then it says something about objections, times extensions, deadlines and voluntary dismissals and stays All with deadlines of some sort.


I am confused. What does this mean? Is August 7th when they want to hold a hearing??
I asked BH what to do and he said don't worry until I get something from MB, but I have to tell you, I don't really want to 'wait' until it is too late. What is my next step? I am really confused. Can MB IGNORE my validation request and move forward with an arbitration?? I was under the impression (again from BH and all the research I have done so far) that they HAVE to validate. BH says he "thinks" their next step will be a stay....but I have heard NOTHING yet from MB, and I am getting a little worried.

BTW, BEFORE I get bashed, I DID try to make payment arrangements with the OC AND the collection attorney (mann bracken) but they would NOT settle for what I had to offer, which isn't much because I am out of work. BH also has MB listed on his site as scum suckers. He told me over the phone DO NOT work with these people. They are not honest and I will be worse off. They are on his list of 'worst collection agencies in America'
So now I am playing the waiting game. I don't know if I should send MB a reminder that they only have 15 days left to comply with my validation request or what?
I hope that makes sense. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
AND ANYONE who has dealt with this kind of issue OR Mann Bracken in the past, please lets hear from you too!
THANKS ALL

PEACE~

 

[captainmorgan66]

I did some further reading and saw some 'similar' cases, BUT no one has answered the question that I am specifically asking...... HOW can NAF or Mann Bracken move forward without validation?
YES it IS needed for further litigation.....persuant FDCPA 15 USC 1692g sec. 809. they cannot further litigate until they have validated. So my question was and still is, WHY does it seem they are going to try anyway?? HOW can they? If they do move forward with arbitration and win judgment, I will move to have it vacated BECAUSE they DIDN'T validate.
So my question was a bit different than others. At least I thought it was, and that is why I asked it. That and I would like some answers from some kind people who may have some.

 

[Country Living]

Isn't this a help forum?

This board is manned by volunteers - the vast majority of them hold down a full time job. You posted very late at night and re-posted first thing this morning.

Being nice would be a prudent move.

 

[captainmorgan66]

This board is manned by volunteers - the vast majority of them hold down a full time job. You posted very late at night and re-posted first thing this morning.

Being nice would be a prudent move.

Yes which is EXACTLY why I went back and edited it BEFORE you commented, lol only to be beat by you (boy your fast).
I wasn't trying to be rude. I guess what I meant was I saw 2 or 3 people attacked by a poster here saying something to them like 'why don't you just pay your bills and then you won't have this problem?' I didn't word it right, or finish up, so I removed the statement. I can only hope that person doesn't attack me. I am just looking for some helpful advice.
Thanks

 

[Country Living]

There are some excellent people who regularly post in this forum. Please give them a little time and they will wander by.

You haven't said when the last payment was made on the debt. Are you still within the Statute of Limitations?

Yes, this is frustrating.

 

[captainmorgan66]

There are some excellent people who regularly post in this forum. Please give them a little time and they will wander by.

You haven't said when the last payment was made on the debt. Are you still within the Statute of Limitations?

Yes, this is frustrating.

Yes, well within the SOL. Last activity hasn't even been a year. In fact that is WHY I was so surprised MB moved so fast. First they called and told me of their intentions (threatened arbitration over phone) but then did not send me any written notice at ALL until a month later (first ANYTHING from them in writing) and that is when I asked for validation within my 30 day period. So far 16 days and nothing. I have done a lot of research and see that if they don't validate that they cannot proceed with litigation until they do. So I am kinda curious if I should wait until the 30 days (if they haven't replied by then) and then ask for a dismissal or stay since they didn't. I mean I know DC says they will just get a $1000 fine and that won't stop them (in another thread) but I have been/still am under the assumption that they cannot proceed until they do.
Thanks to whoever takes the time to answer and help me out

BTW the paper sent to me by the NAF was a scheduling notice. That is what has me confused. No validation yet they have scheduled (a hearing? it doesn't say) it just says basically what I said in first post, something about requests, deadlines, objections etc.
It doesn't say anything about a hearing, in fact the only date is under requests says they must be filed by August 7th. So I have no idea WHAT this letter is supposed to be from the NAF, that is the other thing that has me confused.

**Here is the 1st paragraph in the scheduling notice letter. You tell me what it means if you can, thanks.

"This notice governs the arbitration procedures for the above entitled case and sets forth time periods with which the parties must comply. The failure to comply with deadlines may prevent the consideration of the requests submitted after the deadlines. This scheduling notice governs requests regarding the initial claim, and another scheduling notice may be issued for counter claims or other claims."

Then it lists a case coordinator who will administer the arbitration. her name and address.
So I am supposed to be hearing back from MB and the NAF is still pushing forward (or not, that is why I asked what a scheduling notice is).... THAT is why I asked what I do IF I don't hear back from MB.
Thanks.
I hope I am not making this all complicated, I am just trying to give as much detail as possible to make it easier to asses. If I made it harder I am sorry.

 

[TigerD]

1. A collection agency is only required to stop collections for validation within the first 30 days. After that ..... we get to you when we get to you. Some CAs won't respond to validation requests -- they just go to arbitration or sue.

2. You really need to read and understand the FDCPA. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

3. Bud Hibbs is a joke. You're better off getting advice from the wino on the corner of first and main.

4. FDCPA Section 809:

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

However, the FDCPA does not restrict OCs or their CAs from moving forward with their legal options.

In your arbitration process, there is a provision for discovery. Use it.

DC

 

[TigerD]

So I am kinda curious if I should wait until the 30 days (if they haven't replied by then) and then ask for a dismissal or stay since they didn't. I mean I know DC says they will just get a $1000 fine and that won't stop them (in another thread) but I have been/still am under the assumption that they cannot proceed until they do.
Thanks to whoever takes the time to answer and help me out

I believe you misunderstood. The onus with the 30 day window is on you -- not them. The collection agency has as long as they like to respond or not. They just have to stop collections actions if you request validation within the first 30 days.

Also, if you sent one of those validation requests that cites seven different laws and such, your validation request will be tossed if you cite the wrong law or section. By citing all those laws you are no longer the least informed consumer and lose most of the protections afforded to you by the FDCPA.

DC

 

[captainmorgan66]

1. A collection agency is only required to stop collections for validation within the first 30 days. After that ..... we get to you when we get to you. Some CAs won't respond to validation requests -- they just go to arbitration or sue.

2. You really need to read and understand the FDCPA. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

3. Bud Hibbs is a joke. You're better off getting advice from the wino on the corner of first and main.

4. FDCPA Section 809:


However, the FDCPA does not restrict OCs or their CAs from moving forward with their legal options.

In your arbitration process, there is a provision for discovery. Use it.

DC

However, the FDCPA does not restrict OCs or their CAs from moving forward with their legal options.

.....but from what I understand UNLESS they validate this debt they cannot proceed with ANY litigation until they do, am I missing something here??.....and NO they did not notify me in writing 5 days after our phone conversation (which was not long and not much info was given except they were going to proceed with arbitration) I did not receive any written notice until a month later and that was the 1st peice of paper I have seen from these people.



In your arbitration process, there is a provision for discovery. Use it.


.....and what is a provision for discovery? I have never even heard of that, even with all the research I have been doing? I have no clue WHAT it is, or how to go about doing what I need to do next.

 

[TigerD]

However, the FDCPA does not restrict OCs or their CAs from moving forward with their legal options.

.....but from what I understand UNLESS they validate this debt they cannot proceed with ANY litigation until they do, am I missing something here??

You are missing something. That is wrong. Even in the first 30 days the FDCPA does not prohibit filing suit. After the first 30 days are up, they have no obligation to stop, pause or hesitate any collections action they take.

.....and NO they did not notify me in writing 5 days after our phone conversation (which was not long and not much info was given except they were going to proceed with arbitration) I did not receive any written notice until a month later and that was the 1st peice of paper I have seen from these people.

I understand. The law doesn't require that you receive it -- only that they send it.

In your arbitration process, there is a provision for discovery. Use it.

.....and what is a provision for discovery? I have never even heard of that, even with all the research I have been doing? I have no clue WHAT it is, or how to go about doing what I need to do next.

Even in arbitration, you have a right to discovery. I don't know how to do it. When things get legal, I hire the best attorney I can afford and follow his advice to the letter.

DC

 

[captainmorgan66]

I believe you misunderstood. The onus with the 30 day window is on you -- not them. The collection agency has as long as they like to respond or not. They just have to stop collections actions if you request validation within the first 30 days.



Also, if you sent one of those validation requests that cites seven different laws and such your validation request will be tossed if you cite the wrong law or section. By citing all those laws you are no longer the least informed consumer and lose most of the protections afforded to you by the FDCPA.



DC

They just have to stop collections actions if you request validation within the first 30 days.

Which I did. 30 days from my first notice in writing.
If the first notice was one of arbitration HOW are they giving me a chance to dispute and ask for validation, which, under law, I am entitled to, right?

Also, if you sent one of those validation requests that cites seven different laws and such your validation request will be tossed

The ONLY law I cited was § 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

I am confused. I have researched and researched and have been told they have to 'put up or shut up' (validate or stop with collections, which to me ALSO means litigation, because that is ANOTHER form of trying to collect, right??)
or DO I have it all wrong??

I guess I am just too stupid to get it then, UGH

 

[TigerD]

They just have to stop collections actions if you request validation within the first 30 days.

Which I did. 30 days from my first notice in writing.

No. Not 30 days from the point you choose. 30 days from first contact. They will have sent a letter before the first call or within 5 days. It will have looked like standard junk mail.

If the first notice was one of arbitration HOW are they giving me a chance to dispute and ask for validation, which, under law, I am entitled to, right?

You can request validation and dispute at any time. But they don't have to stop any actions after the first 30 days.

I am confused. I have researched and researched and have been told they have to 'put up or shut up' (validate or stop with collections, which to me ALSO means litigation, because that is ANOTHER form of trying to collect, right??)

No litigation is NOT another form of attempting to collect. Arbitration and lawsuits are exercising their legal rights. Just as you have rights, they have rights. That is how they protect their rights and yours. Now you can have the matter heard by an impartial (snicker) arbitrator or judge.

DC

 

[captainmorgan66]

No. Not 30 days from the point you choose. 30 days from first contact. They will have sent a letter before the first call or within 5 days. It will have looked like standard junk mail.


You can request validation and dispute at any time. But they don't have to stop any actions after the first 30 days.


No litigation is NOT another form of attempting to collect. Arbitration and lawsuits are exercising their legal rights. Just as you have rights, they have rights. That is how they protect their rights and yours. Now you can have the matter heard by an impartial (snicker) arbitrator or judge.

DC

That is JUST it, this was the first contact and THEY know it because on the bottom of the letter it stated THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT ANY IFNRORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. YOU HAVE 30 DAYS TO DISPUTE THIS DEBT, IF YOU DO NOT DISPUTE IT, IT WILL BE CONSIDERED VALID. (or something to that affect)
So THEY included the mini miranda and deadline WHICH I followed!!!

 

[TigerD]

That is JUST it, this was the first contact and THEY know it because on the bottom of the letter it stated THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT ANY IFNRORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. YOU HAVE 30 DAYS TO DISPUTE THIS DEBT, IF YOU DO NOT DISPUTE IT, IT WILL BE CONSIDERED VALID. (or something to that affect)
So THEY included the mini miranda and deadline WHICH I followed!!!

We put that on every communication and most CAs do. That doesn't mean it is first contact. You spoke with them on the phone.

DC

 

[Debt Guy]

DC -- pardon me for jumping in -- maybe I can help the Captain understand.

1. You may be sued (or sent to arbitration) at any time -- it does not matter whether or not you have been contacted by the CA or when you where contacted or how you were contacted. Strictly speaking, since you are already in default on the debt, they have no duty to even contact you at all before filing their action.

2. All the fine print on the collection notice/letter about the mini-miranda and opportunity to dispute the debt is only the required legal disclosures. Those disclosures only apply to collection activity.

3. Legal action (or arbitration) is not a collection activity as defined by the law. Everyone has a right to their day in court.

4. Bud Hibbs is not an authority on what creditors can and cannot do and is often off-base and gives poor advice (my opinion). You said Bud's advice was very helpful. I challenge your judgment on that matter. If he is so helpful, let Bud take care of this for you.

5. Arbitration is a joke and is stacked in favor of the creditor -- but, it is unfortunately legal and so recognized by Congress and the courts.

6. You have not said you don't owe the money -- so I assume you know you really do owe the money. Why don't you just make a deal to make this go away -- it will only be worse (and more expensive) later.