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are previous complaints against officers public record ?

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Kentucky !!!

I'm enjoying this bulletin board. Some of these questions pretty much deserve the flak they get. I'll try and be brief.

My brother shouldn't drink (no one should) but it is America's favorite and most dangerous drug (why is there no war on beer ?)

Anyway, he and a friend were walking into a fast food place when an officer drove up and asked them what was going on at a bar they had just left. They were unaware of anything in particular "going on" at the bar. He decided they did know what was "going on" and decided to 'breathalize' (for brevity) the friend. My idiot brother gave his friend legal advice right there in front of the officer and was grabbed handcuffed and taken in with him. He mouthed-off in the car and is charged with PI, resisting, menacing, & threatening. I imagine he may deserve most if not all of it. Not sure when they have to get around to reading rights, I was once arrested and spent the night, was bailed-out was still never read any rights. The judge was unconcerned about 'rights' it was not a big deal, I pled no-contest paid a fine and all has been fine since then (15 years ago), but they didn't read him any rights either. Shouldn't that be when you are arrested, as in handcuffed and thrown in the car ?

Anyway, after being shackled at the jail, he was thrown into the brick walls several times and when he fell to the gound money fell from his pocket (maybe $30) which was then taken by the officer !!! I know they are "teaching him a lesson". But I am concerned about this particular officer's past complaints. Can I get a copy of them ? I'm investigating this officer. I am a concerned citizen. We have photos of my brother's injuries anda peculiar thing is that his 'case' has yet to be reported in the Police Report section of the local paper (I know, pretty small community), which is strange because they put everything in there, I mean everything.

I'm thinking maybe some police supervisor is not sure they want to get behind their officer on this. I left that town a long time and several (including the "terminal") degrees ago, but I have seen the classic picked-on-in-high-school-but-now-a-cop syndrome in that city on several occassions (long ago). I was careful and pretty bright and they always decided not to tangle with me (mentally, that is). I'm considering adding to my massive educational debt by going to law school, I find the field fascinating. Maybe that's why I enjoy the curmudgeons on this board. they are snarky, but they are smart. Anyway......

I admire good police officers and they do a tough job with not enough pay, but sometimes they are out of line. One shot a man through the drivers side window and then claimed he was gonna hurt him with the car (in which case the fatal bullet would have travelled through the windshield - Columbo 101, another shot and killed a handcuffed man last year - both are still working as police. Recently one shot an unarmed man 3x in the back and is claiming self-defense - still waiting to hear what the committees think of that one.

Thanks for any comments, even if you just want to crap on me or my brother. He deserves it for putting himself in that position. I deserve it for posting to this board. So much for brevity, what happened ?

Thanks, and best to all.
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but they didn't read him any rights either. Shouldn't that be when you are arrested, as in handcuffed and thrown in the car ?
Actually no. You do not have to be read your rights when arrested or immediately prior to arrest. However, if the police intend to question you then yes.

What you are referring to is the process that most police departments train an officer for in the event that someone like your brother spouts off. If they read him his rights and they then question him, whatever he says can be used as evidence.

Anyway, after being shackled at the jail, he was thrown into the brick walls several times and when he fell to the gound money fell from his pocket (maybe $30) which was then taken by the officer !!! I know they are "teaching him a lesson". But I am concerned about this particular officer's past complaints. Can I get a copy of them ? I'm investigating this officer. I am a concerned citizen. We have photos of my brother's injuries anda peculiar thing is that his 'case' has yet to be reported in the Police Report section of the local paper (I know, pretty small community), which is strange because they put everything in there, I mean everything.
And was he ever CHARGED with anything?

Why have you not asked the editor of your local paper why it is not there or, better still, go to the police station and request to look at the blotter (log book) for that night. The log book is public record.

You will probably have a big problem getting the officer's record IF any past complaints have been filed. However, since these may or may not be a matter of his personnel record (regarding the disposition of the charges if any) the actual charge sheets are public record and as such, can be requested under FOIA.

As for the rest of your post it's irrelevant to your situation and the questions that you asked. Regardless of what happened in the past or is currently happening at that station, your only concern here is a matter of information.

One suggestion. Keep focused. If you don't you'll be lead down dead-end alleys while the real issues sneak out the back door.


Senior Member
"Shouldn't that be when you are arrested, as in handcuffed and thrown in the car ?"
*** No. The Miranda rights are only required when the police are questioning a subject to determine facts that may incriminate him/her.

"Anyway, after being shackled at the jail, he was thrown into the brick walls several times and when he fell to the gound money fell from his pocket (maybe $30) which was then taken by the officer !!!"
*** Simply, that doesn't sound credible. When a suspect is booked, their pockets are emptied and inventoried. The money would NOT be in his pocket.

"But I am concerned about this particular officer's past complaints."
*** Why??

"Can I get a copy of them ?"
*** No. You do not have 'standing' in this issue. Besides, the police departments internal reports are not 'public record'.

"I'm investigating this officer."
*** No you're not. You may think you are, but you are only curious about him. You do not have the authority to investigate him or anyone else.

"I am a concerned citizen."
*** Again, no you're not. You are biased individual. In order to 'investigate' you have to be neutral and 'uninvolved'. You're neither.

"We have photos of my brother's injuries anda peculiar thing is that his 'case' has yet to be reported in the Police Report section of the local paper"
*** That means nothing. If you feel that this is some kind of indicator of impropriety, contact the paper and ask them why it hasn't been 'reported'. More than likely, this is far more important to you than to the 'public'.

Have you contacted the officers supervisor to discuss your concerns??
If not, why not??


Thanks guys (or gals), not sure why you both seem male to me, but I digress.....

You make some great points, I now understand the Miranda conundrum much more fully. However, there's a common thread to many of Jet's posts on which I'd like other readers to comment.

Many posters here are a bit challenged (myself included) and they do stupid things, sometimes they even give themselves up to the officer immediately. One thing Jet (& others) might consider is that while they may have been engaged in a behavior in which they themselves are the primary 'victims', one thing about them is that they are honest, otherwise why would they tell the officer the truth?

The assault and robbery of this handcuffed and shackled suspect occurred as soon as they entered the jail complex. He was not immediately booked, he was immediately taken to the room in which he was thrown against the walls and robbed. Is this the very first time a suspect was not immediately booked ?

He is not the brightest bulb, but he is not a liar, he's not smart enough to make this up with such detail. So, to many who have been manhandled by public servants, this sounds exactly credible. I hope Jet is never handled in this manner.

Officers, at least in this jurisdiction, are well-known for instigating the "spouting off", by doing so themselves. Generally the suspects are prodded to use the very same insulting words that the officer just spouted toward them (as happened in this case).

This, of course, is quite stupid and exactly what they are trying to instigate. I myself always used carefully measured and polite, although also sometimes puzzling-to-the-officer-who-reads-only- 'Guns and Ammo", terms instead with great success. I love the puzzled look, like "I think you just insulted me", but since I didn't use the vulger terms they had just used, they felt that their tactic was failing.

I believe he was charged, as he has a court date.....I'm just not sure that they actually charged him with the list of things with which they verbally intimdated him. I wish it were me, I would know all these things and they would only "get away" with that to which they are legally entitled. Does anyone wish to suggest that the game does not involve taking advantage of the not-so-bright, and is that really the kind of system we want in 'merica, as the entirely honorable president says.

I mentioned the past actions of area officers, although entirely irrelevant, because I think those officers probably started with gratuitous body slamming of handcuffed suspects before they became bold enough to actually kill them. Those were all of course racially charged situations. I've never heard of such happening to a white property owner, but again, I digress. & continue a bit. I don't think those officers should be imprisoned, as they were likely in a scary situation, but should they really be police officers ? I mean if a delivery truck driver crushes a worker between the truck and the dock, maybe they shouldn't be charged, but should they then continue to be a truck driver ?

Thank you Hexeliebe for the reminder to stay focused (it is a challenge to do so), you are quite wise (best I can tell, and I'm clearly not as bright as Jet).

Answers to some of your insightful questions:

I am not in the local area and just learned these details, so I may well speak with the editor, desk seargent, etc. etc. upon my next visit to this burg.

I am concerned because I have nieces and nephews in the area and I want police officers to arrest the folks that hurt others. I do not want officers to slam handcuffed people against walls and rob them, regardless of the suspect's infraction (and I mean that, regardless of the suspect's infractions). That answer your question on that one Jet ?

You are right, of course, I am just curious about him. When I then turn that curiosity into information gathering, actual physical information gathering, I am then investigating, according to the dictionary, anyway. There's nothing about investigation that requires neutrality, you are confused with another term there, but thanks for the lesson. Most investigations are carried-out by 'biased individuals', are they not. I think you are confusing investigators with judges. they are the ones to be impartial, not investigaotors, prosecutors, defense attorneys, suspects, readers, or the general public. You are, of course, not biased at all, are you ?

Please folks, jump in here. I think Jet could be fun for everyone to 'dance' with.

This is not all that important to me (I'm much older and though he's my brother, he's also just another dude in the world), nor to the 'public'. It's just curious that it has been left out of a report, that as I stated initally, usually includes every minute occurance involving the police in this burg.

I think I will contact the officers supervisor, as I investigated (to work through my curiousity) that very matter and now I have the contact info for the supervisor. However, I think I shall do this in person, and I think it may be wise to have a lawyer (is 2 lawyers too many) tag along. I'll take the photos and a sworn affidavit giving my brother's account of the encounter. Is that a good idea officer Jet ?

Pleae folks, let's have some fun with this one. Surely there are readers who find my statements reasonable, if also a bit naive.

I mean, as many who have read the wrath of the almighty Jet, have stated, "isn't this a forum for open discussion of issues?"

I understand that you lose patience easily, as do I, but crappiness works both ways too and certainly does not encourage the open and free expression of ideas that the founders envisioned - speaking of the founders, I wish they could see the internet, man they would dig this technology. I bet they would use it differently than our buddy Jet.

Best to all - keep your heads down as you type, there may be no tracers in Jets next volleys

Honestly, I hope you enjoy this exchange, oh great one. I am nobody and I am certainly wrong much of the time. I don't know as much as you about this stuff, I'm trying to learn. I certainly hope you don't actually trace and come after me for typed words (ideas) as I am sure you are a real bad *ss, compared to me.

Although my concerns are real (to me at minimum), I am just havin' a bit of fun here, in the final analysis.

Up with Ideas !!!! and their free exchange !!!

yea !!!


Senior Member
"I hope Jet is never handled in this manner."
*** Trust me, I never will be. That is because I will NEVER put myself in a position to be treated that way.

"That answer your question on that one Jet ?"
*** No answer at all. In fact, you have shown that you are so far removed from the 'situation'... and not even in the same area or with direct knowledge, that your entire allegations are suspect. Don't tell us you are basing your long-winded diatribe on this pot head brother of yours, are you??

"Please folks, jump in here. I think Jet could be fun for everyone to 'dance' with."
*** Sorry, I don't 'swing' that way.

" Is that a good idea officer Jet ?"
*** Its PART of a good idea. See, you have NO legal standing in this situation, so the police (nor anyone else) has to listen to your bleating. Let your brother take this issue to the police and the media if needed. Otherwise, you would be seen as an interloper (and an out of town one at that).

"I mean, as many who have read the wrath of the almighty Jet, have stated, "isn't this a forum for open discussion of issues?""
*** HUH?? I never said that, because that is NOT what this forum is for. Read the site 'notice' at the bottom of the page.

"Although my concerns are real (to me at minimum), I am just havin' a bit of fun here, in the final analysis."
*** And finally, we get to the end of this.... you are just "havin' a bit of fun" and very likely NONE of your drivel is true or accurate. Simply, your whining is a waste of our time.

Have a hap-hap-happy day!!


sorry to waste your valuable time, sir.

anybody else have any different views on any of this ?

oh, by the way, he's a beer head.

pot makes you think you know it all and are more important than others. beer just makes you actually know it all and better than others.

take care and please put me on your ignore list so your time will no longer be wasted.

I apologize to anyone I've offended with my petty concerns about law enforcement where my favorite children live.

my best to all

Born to Lease

Are the attorneys (2 is probably not enough) for you or for your brother? Does he already have an attorney, & therefore you are offering to provide him with another? Would there then be 2 attorneys for your brother, or 2 for you, or 1 for you and 1 for your brother, or...does your brother even have an attorney? I understand why he needs at least 1 attorney, but why do you need representation? (I can see why you might need 2 attorneys in the event you require legal representation, and in that case it would be really nice of your brother to offer his attorney's services--3 would not be too many!) You lost me...


Heya Mbaker-

Firstly, I completely understand why you're here. On this board, I mean.

You've got lots of options. Research your state's public information policies. Googling ["public information" +kentucky] would be a good start. Find and read the relevant parts of the Kentucky penal code and other statutes. The state legislature's web site might be a good place to start looking.

You may find that you can access at least a limited version of the police report on the incident(s?), provided you already have certain information. For instance, knowing the exact time, location and people involved.

I suspect you will have no luck getting any information about previous complaints against the cop involved, as they are internal police reports. But there are organizations such as CopWatch [copwatch.org] that keep a public registry of complaints.

Good luck.


thanx prefersprivacy !

I've actually been able to download a .pdf of KRS (Ky revised statutes) and some other info. One very interseting website I found while looking around is www.prisonsucks.com, but its not really helpful for the matter at hand.

I've also been able to forget about it some and get back to my work and my own life (such as it is - mostly about my work) and I really mean that statement about caring for my brother although, in the end, once everyone is grown-up (not the bets tern to use for my brother), he really is just another dude in the world in many senses.

I'm an investigative sort (& I know I am biased) and I have been able to "turn the tables" in several instances where I was treted incorrectly, even by officers - who for the most part are great people doing a very difficult job.

Despite protestations by some (completely unbiased ?) veteran posters here, there are people employed as officers who should not be.

Thank you for the link to copwatch.org, these are also good people doing work that, unfortunately, needs to be done.

One further clarification, in case there are board readers who got the wrong idea (like 1 unbiased and extrememely knowledgeable veteran poster in particular)......I stated that "in the final analysis, I am just having a bit of fun here" I meant that I am not so foolish as to think that posting to this board and fielding comments from unbiased clairvoyant know-it-alls, with large chips on their heads is likely to really solve anything.

The situation was and is real, I have written some very harsh letters to my brother over this situation. He did some incredibly stupid things (again).

I've actually decided that he deserved to be thrown around and mistreated, no one should ever threaten an officer, even if what they said, while handcuffed and behind a metal screen, was "if the situation were different and you were not in a uniform and I were not handcuffed, I'd kick your ass for the way you're doing me" - I don't blame an officer for being rough after that, I know I would be very rough with them.

However that should be the full punishment. To throw someone around who's cuffed and shackled and then also pile on charges is wrong (in my humble, but considered opinion, other can & will disagree).

This officer got his own physical justice and then also piled on the charges, like Resisting (he did not, he was cuffed in a flash wneh he repeated the foul language the officer used first).

Menacing - which by definition he did not do, it is not possible to menace while cuffed and safely behind a screen.

and T-threatening (maybe saying you would kick someone's ass if they were not an officer is T-threatening, but if you are going to charge them with all of these things, can we ask that they then control themselves and NOT also rough them up and steal their last $30 ?????

Is that really too much to ask of our employees, our esteemed officers, respected by small children. These are the officers who crush that esteem in small children. They need to go do another job. Were I a supervisor, I would weed these guys out - maybe they could be Judgement Enforcers instead.

My young neices and nephews are now fearful of the police - after they saw the bruises and swelling on their dad's & 2nd-favorite uncle's arms, from the broken-skin, red rings around his wrists all the way up to the deep purple bruises on his shoulders. There are bruises in the shape of hands/fingers.

I think maybe he got what he deserved already, but to now prosecute him for those 3 charges ?????? I don't think that's right.

Had the officer not already exacted his own street justice, I'd say charge him and prosecute him, but only for T-threatening, because the other charges are simply made-up to cover the physical injuries.

I'm trying to explain to these little kids that used to be fans of the police (a couple used to want to be police when they grow up) that this was just one policeman, one bad apple.....but they instinctively know that 1 bad apple will indeed rot the whole bunch.

Good police officers, and I know they are out there, should work to get rid of these guys themselves. There's plenty of work those types could do,they are simply not cut out for police work.

Now, maybe if he had uncuffed and NOT shackled him, took off his gun and stick belt, and then fought him fairly for his stupid and insulting comment - that would be a better cop.

However, I think by law, when someone speaks to you in an offensive matter - yau are then allowed to speak to them in an offensive manner, the first person to physically strike the other is guilty of assault and the person assaulted is then allowed to respond in like fashion.

You are not in-the-right if you speak offensively, the other person responds in like fashion and then you bind them and beat them. You are in the wrong, you have 1) started the situation, and 2) assaulted the other person. using your police powers to facillitate the entire episode and then prosecuting the other person after you have assaulted them is simply and egregiously a heinus act (check my spelling, I did not).

Like I'm now forced to tell the kiddies, be careful out there - some policemen are badasses with limited mental capacity.

Born to Lease

Rather than judging these police officers as "bad cops" maybe they should be judged as human beings. Put yourself in their shoes, and ask yourself how you would react if you were in a situation where you had to spend, let's just say, 30 min's with a drunk and belligerent man. Would you remain calm and polite? Would you not have one bit of anger and hostility toward him?

Face it, you, your family, and your brother are responsible for the negative influence this situation has had on your nieces and nephews, not the police. Someone needs to let them know it is all right to believe in THE TRUTH, that their uncle/father would not have been in jail if he had not done wrong. Children are very smart and they know and believe the truth, but you all are hurting them with this made up version of defense for your brother's irresponsible and unlawful behavior. The bottom line is they love this man no matter what he has done, and they do not understand the reason you and your family are telling them things that are not absolutely true. They will lose their trust and faith in you all if you do not set the record straight.

Your brother needs to pay for his mistakes. You and your family need to stop fighting the truth, and once you have accepted it you need to undo the damage you all have done regarding those kids. Otherwise you all will be dealing with these kids in similar situations one day!
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Yeah, officers are never wrong.

Yeah, officers never get frustrated when they have missed the person causing a disturbance and just decided to unleash their wrath on someone else.

Yeah officers never get the ball rolling in these situations by using foul and degrading language.

All police officers are infallible saints.

Not one single officer has ever mishandled a situation

Tell it to Dialo. Oh, wait you can't, he was ripped apart by 3 full clips. He was about to harm them with his keys, I guess. They were mistaken, or no, how could they be ? They were officers, so they must have been right. Right ???

I know some officers, grew up with them, still visit some of them, they are normal people doing hard work, a few should do other work as they are just not cut out for it.

Yeah, kids see injuries and figure the injured deserved it.

This was one police officer, not "cops". That' what the kids need to understand. Teaching them that anyone is infallible due to the happenstance of their job is just stuuupid, and yeah, kids are smart, they know how stupid it is to assume that a uniform makes a man super-human.

Don't you ever leave a bar to go to a fast food place, that's punishable by menacing (being approached as though you had just harmed someone, a large steroid-driven and armed man charging toward you spewing offensive and degrading language) cuffing, shackling, beating, robbing, and will get you prosecuted for resisting, menacing, and T-treatening.......and you will deserve every bit of it.

This human being was mistaken, he did not find the person causing some sort of disturbance. He played his hunch (which was a bit off-the-mark), by the time the call came over the radio that another officer had apprehended the person who was thought to be carrying concealed (by the bartender) in a different direction, this human being and officer had already gone too far bringing his wrath down on two hapless dudes lookin' to get a taco.

He did get spoken to with the same words and attitude that he had (mistakenly) dished-out. When the call came over the radio that another officer had the actual bad guy, he was told that he should have his ass kicked for what he had just done to the cuffed taco-seeker. This was stupid and apparently sent this human officer into a seething rage. After all, he had just attacked an innocent man, and now he was getting lip from that man. What to do ?

Certainly he couldn't apologize, no he must throw him around abit and charge with as much as he could think of.

Good officers (the vast majority, probably 99.8 %) do not want to work with guys like this one.

Thanks for the lessons though. Hey, if you wear a white hat, does that mean you can do no wrong too ??? or is that just a mistaken notion. Are there specail shoes that make one infallible ??? I want to never be wrong, are there other professions that confer that to a human being ???

Or, are we all fallible ???, the uniformed and civilian alike.

Born to Lease

I have NEVER been in any sort of trouble whenever I was NOT doing things I should not be doing. I find it impossible to believe that your brother is the type of person who, for the most part, stays out of instances that would warrant involvement with the police. Sounds like you are both really crazy, you just show it differently!

I am fully aware of the fact that there are some really bad men who work as police officers and in other roles who cast unfair and undue treatment on innocent people, and on people who are guilty of crimes. My reply was in response to the information you provided in your posts and is regarding the incident that involved your brother.

If I was a judge or juror who heard this story, as it has been explained here on the FA Forum, I would dismiss all claims and charges against the officer(s) involved. The issue here is with your brother and the charges against him. You all need to focus on the real issues because you guys are not going to be able to pass the buck or lessen his punishment by this rediculous over-dramatic 'sad' story!

Good Luck!

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