Bad Purchase Using Internet - Small Claims Question

[garywcook]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?
I'm in California. Seller is in Oklahoma.

I bought an item I SAW on eBay. $375 + $195 shipping paid by Paypal debit. It wasn’t through eBay because the auction ended and I contacted the seller directly. Yeah.. Bad thing to do but the seller had 100% perfect feedback and I contacted some of his buyers from previous auctions for references. All positive. Water under the bridge. No eBay or Paypal recourse.

The item was an unusable, new fiberglass hood. It was full of defects. Any body shop would judge it as trash and unusable. Too small, mounting holes in the wrong place, warped, irregular shape, etc.. Bad finish that cannot be corrected, etc. Assume I'm correct here. After purchase, one of his customers contacted me and had a similar issue with his parts. Too late for me to cancel.

The seller refuses to refund under my terms. He will only refund the cost of the item, not shipping. Furthermore, he won't guarantee a refund until he receives it and it is not damaged. I want a full refund because it was NEVER an acceptable product from the day it was shipped. Complaints filed with the FTC and Better Business Bureau, Tulsa.

So, being pig headed, I'll take him to Small Claims court if I can recover costs. I know I can win the case.

1. Do I have to do this in Oklahoma?
2. Can I recover ALL costs associated with going to court? Lost Wages or my time? Airfare? Rental Car? Hotel? Shipping of the item back to Oklahoma as evidence?
3. Can I collect fees that I pay to "experts"? I was thinking of taking the part down to a body shop for their professional opinion to strengthen my case. Professional photography might be used to compare "good" to "bad".
4. How much can be done by an attorney? Can I collect fees paid to a lawyer?
5. I think the maximum judgment in OK is now $6000. Correct me if I'm wrong. That should cover all expenses and refunds.

 

[janedoe23]

How do you know you have no recourse through Paypal? People use Paypal everyday outside Ebay and file claims.

If you were to take this seller to small claims you would have to do it in the seller's state. Airfare and loss wages can't be recovered. Also I don't believe you can have an attorney in small claims but I could be wrong.

 

[garywcook]

Already filed a claim with PayPal. It's closed. They only deal with non-delivery not product quality. If it arrives that's all they care about if it's outside of eBay. I'll never use them again for purchases. You loose the protection a credit card provides.

I always wondered why some eBay sellers only sell to "verified" buyers. That's because the purchase is a debit from the bank account and not a credit card purchase.

Live and learn. Secret SCAM's.

 

[divgradcurl]

1. Do I have to do this in Oklahoma?

Yes. You may not serve someone outside of CA with a summons to appear in CA small claims court.

2. Can I recover ALL costs associated with going to court? Lost Wages or my time? Airfare? Rental Car? Hotel? Shipping of the item back to Oklahoma as evidence?

No. You will only be able to recover the cost of the hood, and court costs, if you prevail.

3. Can I collect fees that I pay to "experts"? I was thinking of taking the part down to a body shop for their professional opinion to strengthen my case. Professional photography might be used to compare "good" to "bad".

Probably not. You can ask for them, as part of your "costs," but usually they are disallowed.

4. How much can be done by an attorney? Can I collect fees paid to a lawyer?

Essentially nothing. You can obtain the forms and file the complaint and serve the complaint on the defendant without travelling to OK. However, you will have to appear for the trial itself.

5. I think the maximum judgment in OK is now $6000. Correct me if I'm wrong. That should cover all expenses and refunds.

Check here: http://www.oklahomacounty.org/courtclerk/SmallClaimsProcedures.htm and here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_ok.html

 

[garywcook]

Thanks.

I guess this is going to turn into something larger. Time to find an attorney.

 

[Leinalani]

Just remember that your attorney fees, travel fees, loss of wages and the such expenses most likely can not be added to your claim. Those would be things you'd be taking a loss on with no chance of recovery from the defendant.

I'd call the Oklahoma Clerk's office and clarify with them before you start spending way more money than you can legally get back in a claim.

Just thought you should know...

 

[stephenk]

i would file in California at your local courthouse. He agreed to sell to you in California and you can argue that the transaction took place in California. Just make sure you serve him properly before the hearing.

If he defaults you would then need to have the judgment filed in Oklahoma in the county where the defendant resides.

 

[dallas702]

And, what kind of feedback have you left for this "100%" seller? Sometimes the threat of lost business is greater leverage than just a refund and some court costs. One really bad negative can cost him dozens of sales.

Oh, wait. You didn't buy through an Ebay auction. Geez, you didn't leave yourself much of an out. Even paying with a CC would have helped.

Here's what you do. Put the hood up for sale on Ebay. Explain exactly who you bought it from and what it's condition is. Don't put a reserve on it....just take whatever you get. You get to blast him and you get rid of a piece of junk that it would cost you more to go to court over.

 

[AlexandriaDumas]

"Here's what you do. Put the hood up for sale on Ebay. Explain exactly who you bought it from and what it's condition is. Don't put a reserve on it....just take whatever you get. You get to blast him and you get rid of a piece of junk that it would cost you more to go to court over."

I like the way you think.

 

[garywcook]

Just remember that your attorney fees, travel fees, loss of wages and the such expenses most likely can not be added to your claim. Those would be things you'd be taking a loss on with no chance of recovery from the defendant.

I'd call the Oklahoma Clerk's office and clarify with them before you start spending way more money than you can legally get back in a claim.

Just thought you should know...

If I change this from a small claims court case to "standard lawsuit" (whatever that means), I should be able to collect my expenses and possibly damages, right?

Can this type of action be filed in California instead on Oklahoma?

 

[garywcook]

And, what kind of feedback have you left for this "100%" seller? Sometimes the threat of lost business is greater leverage than just a refund and some court costs. One really bad negative can cost him dozens of sales.

Oh, wait. You didn't buy through an Ebay auction. Geez, you didn't leave yourself much of an out. Even paying with a CC would have helped.

Right.. Didn't buy on eBay or Credit Card.

He's stopped selling under his original name. His feedback was perfect until the day after I made my stupid purchase. Another seller updated his Positive feedback with a VERY negative comment. I contacted him. Same story as mine.

The parts previously listed by the seller are now being sold under another username. Same city. Same description. Same photos.

 

[garywcook]

Here's what you do. Put the hood up for sale on Ebay. Explain exactly who you bought it from and what it's condition is. Don't put a reserve on it....just take whatever you get. You get to blast him and you get rid of a piece of junk that it would cost you more to go to court over.

I like it. It's my style of dealing with things too.

If all else fails, that's the plan.