Big ticket ebay purchase gone horribly sour.

[lingenfelter]

What is the name of your state? California

Seller is also in California, as is ebay.

Earlier this month I won a no reserve ebay auction on a custom construction motorcycle with a winning bid of $14,211. The bike is worth much more. The seller stated he was selling for a friend in the auction. Just moments after the auction ended, the seller emails with a sob story about having been so sure it would bring much more that he convinced his friend that a no reserve auction was the best way to generate the most action on it. There were, in fact, some 52 total bids at auctions end.

He went on to explain that his friend wouldn't have sold it for less than $17,000. if he'd have had any control over it, but in the interest of reason and fair play, would accept $16,000. Otherwise, the implication was that I could pound salt. Not wanting to see the deal go south on me. We (seller and I) agreed that he would wave his 10% selling fee, and I would cover the remaining $500.00 odd dollars. This in effect, would net the friend the $16,000. he was asking for.

The next day, he writes back to explain that his friend is having second thoughts about the whole deal. Anyway, to make a long story short, it's now been 3 weeks and numerous emails and phone conversations, and it's starting to look like I'm going to come up empty handed.

To further complicate matters. I was originally buying the bike for a friend. Once the winning bid was assured, he immediately set about accepting that amount from a buyer for his bike, though it too was worth much more. After several weeks without a ride, my friend announces he's going out to find another bike. I thought great... we can drop it and move on. Not so easy. It was also made clear to me (in no uncertain terms) that I would make up the difference between the $14,211 he sold his old bike for and what the new bike would cost him. Yesterday, I got a bill for slightly less than $5,000. !!! Trust me on this... It's not an obligation I can simply turn my back on while expecting to live a full and productive life. So now it's more than principal with the non performing ebay seller... it's personal!

For sanity and safety's sake, it's an absolute neccessity that I get this bike. I don't have $5k stuffed in a mattress anywhere, and If I were to empty my wallet right this minute, I might be able to make change for a twenty. So, short of selling my car, or my body (scientific experiments) this bike represents my only legal means of recouping that $5k. Now that may, or may not factor into a court decision of some sort, somewhere... but it is, what it is.

Obviously, I have several questions, and some assumptions owing to what I've been told, what I've read, and what I've heard. By the way, do feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, and add anything I might be missing.

First off, I'm assuming the ebay contract is legal and binding in as much as the item was put up for auction in accordance with ebay guidelines, with no reserve, and I won the auction by virtue of being the high bidder at auction close. I also assume that his request for more money and my acceptance, and mutual agrreement to new payment terms, is also binding.

1) With the courts in mind. How do I go about getting the seller to complete the sale and turn the bike over to me?

2) If (worse case scenario) seller subsequently sells the bike, reduces it's worth by damaging it, or destroys it completely... What remedies, or recourse would I have in the way of compensation? I've been told a couple things. I can either buy another bike of similar worth and sue to recover any cost over and above the agreed upon sales price, or I can sue for some sort of expected gain based on the bikes actual value above what I would have paid to aquire it. True/False...? Yes/No...? Sorta/Maybe...?

3) The bike is not one of a kind unique, but in as much as it is constructed from specific off the shelf parts that make it unique unto itself, how do I go about satisfying the legal definition of "similar" when it comes to replacing it? Do I itemize specific parts cost wise? or...

4) Seeing as the bike only has 400 miles on it, could I have one newly built with same, or "similar" parts and expect the courts to accept the new bike as "similar"?

With the exceptions of... drop it - leave negative feedback- move on... all responses are appreciated. I fully intend to pursue this as far as needed to get satisfaction. I'm thinking my future may depend on it!

 

[NotSoNew]

your "friend" thinks you owe him the difference between what he sold his old bike for and what his new bike cost him? and he is going to break your legs if you dont pay him? if he already bought a new bike (i am assuming since he gave you a $5000 bill) what does it matter if you now obtain this "other" bike for 14,211?

geez i hope this is the last time you do this friend any favors!

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Post here the exact wording of the contracts between you and your "friend" and the e-bay poster and HIS "friend".

Then we'll advise.

 

[lingenfelter]

your "friend" thinks you owe him the difference between what he sold his old bike for and what his new bike cost him? and he is going to break your legs if you dont pay him? if he already bought a new bike (i am assuming since he gave you a $5000 bill) what does it matter if you now obtain this "other" bike for 14,211?

geez i hope this is the last time you do this friend any favors!

Here's is how that went down.

Without making judgement, or assumptions as to why he needed to sell his old bike, my understanding prior to entering into the auction was that the sales price for his old bike, would be set by the sales price of the new bike. Essentially, had I won the auction for $20,000. (still a bargain) My friend's agreement with his "friend" would have been to sell at $20,000. Likewise, had the final auction price been $1,000. my assumption is that he would have turned his bike over for that amount. Don't ask me why, I don't know... and honestly, I don't want to know. I can only assume it has something to do with a debt.

Now, three weeks later, and still without a bike... My friend announces that he's done waiting on the auction seller to turn over his bike, and set out to locate a new one, and in no uncertain terms, assured me that I would be responsible formaking up the difference between the $14,211. he got for his bike, and it's replacement cost. The total bill for his new purchase came to $19,000. and change. The difference out of my pocket... almost $5,000.

Circumstances being what they are, the only way I'm going to come up with anything close to $5,000. is to aquire the bike from auction and hope to turn it over for a profit. It's as simple (or complicated) as that.

Please don't suggest that I go to the authorities. It would be less than prudent on my part. With that said... I'd prefer to concentrate on getting the ebay seller to honor our contract. The fact is, I seriously need for him to do so. If I have a strong case, it would go a long way towards making my obligation a lot less stressful.

 

[lingenfelter]

Post here the exact wording of the contracts between you and your "friend" and the e-bay poster and HIS "friend".

Then we'll advise.

Thank you, I truly appreciate any help you can give me. Please understand however, I don't want all the ancillary nonsense to distract from the basic issues, ie. Does the ebay seller have to perform? If so, and he doesn't; What form of action should I take to compell him to do so? And if, for whatever reason, he can't produce the bike as described; What form of compensation, if any, can I expect the appropriate court to award?

The contract between me, and my friend, would be verbal. In actuality, it's a favor gone bad. It's true what thay say... no good deed goes un-punished. In essence, the agreement was this: I would use my ebay account to bid on a bike for him. I was given a set amount of $20,000. to bid. If I won. I was to call him and let him know as soon as the auction ended. Had we not won... end of story. We won. I called, he made arrangments to turn his bike over for the winning amount. That deal was done, as agreed. Whether I'm legally obligated to produce a bike for him is not the the question however. So don't be side tracked by this.

As far as a contract between my friend and HIS friend? I'm certain we'd have to refer to it as a verbal agreement as well, or verbal contract. I seriously doubt there is a paper trail involved. In any case, considering the parties involved, I'm also certain we could consider it, "iron clad". Again, not something I'm looking to for a legal "out". Getting out from under my obligation, real or imagined, is not an option.

As for the auction seller and his friend, I don't know what form their agreement took. I do know that the seller runs both an ebay business, as well as a brick and mortar buisness. Both involve consignment sales for all manner of goods. I assume there is some crossover. That is to say, customers are bringing goods to the actual store for sale, whereby he in turn lists them for sale on ebay. One would assume he has some sort of standard written agreement for business purposes, but being as this sale was for a friend, I can't be sure one was used, short of asking him outright. If it's important to my case, I could attempt to find out. But I'd rather not tip my hand just yet. I'm not sure what his reaction would be if he thought I was pursuing legal avenues. If he's in a position to close up shop and move elsewhere, it would complicate my efforts to get satisfaction.

Finally, from an ebay standpoint; The auction, eventual sale, and all activities leading up to, and including the successful conclusion of the auction, were all within ebay's guidelines. Making for, what I understand to be, a legally binding contract requiring the seller to perform.

 

[lingenfelter]

Wow, no answers yet? Did I confuse things with all the explanations? Perhaps a return to the questions themselves will generate a response.

I won an auction on ebay. Seller now refuses to complete the transaction. What are my options?

First off, I'm assuming the ebay contract is legal and binding in as much as the item was put up for auction in accordance with ebay guidelines, with no reserve, and I won the auction by virtue of being the high bidder at auction close. I also assume that his request for more money and my acceptance, and mutual agrreement to new payment terms, is also binding.

1) With the courts in mind. How do I go about getting the seller to complete the sale and turn the bike over to me?

2) If (worse case scenario) seller subsequently sells the bike, reduces it's worth by damaging it, or destroys it completely... What remedies, or recourse would I have in the way of compensation? I've been told a couple things. I can either buy another bike of similar worth and sue to recover any cost over and above the agreed upon sales price, or I can sue for some sort of expected gain based on the bikes actual value above what I would have paid to aquire it. True/False...? Yes/No...? Sorta/Maybe...?

3) The bike is not one of a kind unique, but in as much as it is constructed from specific off the shelf parts that make it unique unto itself, how do I go about satisfying the legal definition of "similar" when it comes to replacing it? Do I itemize specific parts cost wise? or...

4) Seeing as the bike only has 400 miles on it, could I have one newly built with same, or "similar" parts and expect the courts to accept the new bike as "similar"?

 

[divgradcurl]

You can sue the seller for the breach of contract. You will have to sue the seller in his own county. If you want the motorcycle, you will need to sue in regular court, which probably means a lawyer, unless you are a quick study. Otherwise, if you don't actually want the bike, your damages are the difference between the auction price of the bike, and the cost to purchase a similar bike. If the difference is low enough, you might be able to do this in small claims court.

As for what the court will think is "similar," who knows. The closer you can get to the real bike, the better.

 

[shortbus]

Lingenfelter, your story makes no sense. Your "friend" sold his bike for $14,211 -- the EXACT SAME PRICE as your previous winning bid for a different bike on Ebay, that you were allegedly buying on his behalf? Nobody is going to advise you on a fictitious set of facts.

 

[lingenfelter]

Lingenfelter, your story makes no sense. Your "friend" sold his bike for $14,211 -- the EXACT SAME PRICE as your previous winning bid for a different bike on Ebay, that you were allegedly buying on his behalf? Nobody is going to advise you on a fictitious set of facts.

Shortbus. A more fitting name I can't imagine. My question does not concern my friend. It concerns the legitmacy of ebay contracts. The information I seek forcing the seller to make good on that contract. For your benefit, and the benefit of any other "shortbus" types out there... I'll try one more time to clear this up for you.

The deal between my friend and I.

There is a bike on ebay he wants.
His bike, I'm assuming, is wanted/owed by/to someone else. As I mentioned earlier, I'm also assuming this "transaction" may be payment for a debt. Something akin to... "tell you what Mr. friend of lingenfelter, sell me your bike for cheap, and we'll call it even. Otherwise, you might want to get your effects in order."

Whatever the situation... let's move on. Here's the jist of our conversation pre-auction

Friend comes to me and says, " I need a bike, cheap!"
I say, "What do you have in mind and what do you need me for?"
Friend says, "You owe me a favor, and you have an ebay account"
I say, "Do you have one in mind?"
He says, "Yes."
I say, " What are you doing with your old bike?
He say's, None of you !@#%ing business!"
I say, "Okeeee?"
He say's, " Don't go over 16k."
I say, "Ok"
He says, "Let me know the outcome the minute the auction ends. If we win, I'll need the price we paid."
I say, "I'll call you the minute the auction ends."
He says, "Cool."

The auction ends. we win the bike with a bid of $14,211.00

I call friend who immediately makes arrangements to sell his bike (satisfying his debt) for exactly $14,211.00.

Just to recap. Friend now has $14,211, and NO BIKE. Are we clear so far, Shortbus? Ok, let's move on to;

Post auction activity.

Seller emails me and says," I was selling this bike for a friend and I screwed up. There should have been a reserve and I didn't set one. Can you come up with another $1,800.?"

I email seller back saying, "I seriously doubt it, but I'll find out."

I find out, and let seller know there isn't a penny more to be had. Please turn over the bike asap.

Seller refuses. Days turn into weeks and my bikeless friend grows more restless with each passing minute. His old bike is sold, gone, done deal, end of story.

Near the third week, seller emails me and says bike is in the shop. says it looks like the motor is bad, it's blowing oil all over the place.

When my friend gets the news, he's fit to be tied, and that's putting it mildly. He informs me that he's had enough of this crap. "I need a bike, and I need one now. I don't have time for this crap. I'm getting a bike now and you're paying the difference... (expletive deleted)!!"

Friend goes out and pays $17,500. for another bike and stops by to show it off and more importantly... to pick up my share. Convinced that my health depends on it, I make good on the difference between $14,211. and $17,500.

I'll let you do the math, Shortbus... unless you need help with that as well? Let me know.

Recap: Friend has new bike, no longer needs wants. or yearns for ebay bike. Lingenfelter has no bike, is out $3,000 and change from his own pocket, and has some friends who are very serious about biking, and money. Not neccessarily in that order.

Now then, I don't have that kinda money to throw around. So I'm looking to acquire the bike and turn it over for a profit. Hopefully, more than enough to make up what I've already shelled out, and maybe a bit more for my trouble.

Which brings us back to the original questions. And no, I won't repeat them. Go back and re-read the original post. I don't want to add to your confusion Shortbus. For my sake, Feel free to take a pass here, I'd preferto have an adult answer this one. Thanks for your interest however. Go puff your chest up on someone else's post. I have niether the time, nor the stomach for cleaning up the mess around here after your head explodes from another round of trying to figure what, exactly, it is I'm asking for.

 

[lingenfelter]

You can sue the seller for the breach of contract. You will have to sue the seller in his own county. If you want the motorcycle, you will need to sue in regular court, which probably means a lawyer, unless you are a quick study. Otherwise, if you don't actually want the bike, your damages are the difference between the auction price of the bike, and the cost to purchase a similar bike. If the difference is low enough, you might be able to do this in small claims court.

As for what the court will think is "similar," who knows. The closer you can get to the real bike, the better.

Thank you for the response divgradcurl. One more request, which I believe will improve on the great little community you have here. One of you needs to take shortbus out by his shorthairs and deposit him permanently in a sports forum somewhere.

Once again, thank you all for the help. You too Shortbus. Every forum needs comic relief. Maybe you could be the guy who recruits someone to provide it? Give it some thought.

 

[garrula lingua]

To add to Div's excellent comments:
Small claims limit now is approx. $7,000; as Div said, small claims is money only suits.
For 'specific performance' lawsuits, you are looking at minicipal/superior court.

Nolo Press has a great book for non-lawyers suing in muni court, 'in pro per'. (Other publishers also have very good books on the subj)
Check out the book - it's not that difficult to represent yourself. Nolo's is/was a step-by-step, with all forms.

In Shortbus' defense, your dilemma is very strange; don't be surprised if the Judge reacts like Shortbus does - that's the normal reaction ----'huh ????'


Good Luck.

 

[Jiggly1984]

I was mighty confused as well the first couple of times I read this post... your last clarification worked much better, so if you do sue, make sure you present the story in that manner...

One thing I don't know if you realize or not: If you sue this person for not performing on your eBay contract, presumably the best you're going to win on it is enforcement of the contract -- which means, you pay the $14,000 and he turns over the bike. You might get some damages in light of the fact that your buddy made you pony up the extra $3000 to cover the cost of him buying a new bike, but I'd honestly be a little bit surprised.

Good luck with this!

 

[xylene]

14,000 dollars for a messed up motorcycle...

And your only out 3,000 dollars now

What a joke. If I had just sold a broken vehicle, your darn certain I would not release the buyer....

Yet you are worried about buying this POS.

And why would ANYBODY, especially a judge, care about your foul motorcycle sub-culture.

That right folks. AMERICAN Motorcycles are lame. They bite HARD.

OOOOOO better keep my mouth shut. Wouldn't want some fat, wing eatin, low life to get mad at me for pointing out:

A) Their own actions and DUMB deals.
B) The stupidity of spending 14,000K on EBAY
C) That loud pipes are for the gays.

Loud, obnoxious and dangerous.

That's the motorcycle!

My favorite motoring policy initiative: REPEAL HELMET LAWS

 

[shortbus]

Lingenfelter, I maintain your story is bizarre. But assuming it is true:

1) The seller of the Ebay bike broke his deal with you. But no court will order him to sell you the actual bike. That is a very rare contract remedy, typically reserved for unique items (fine art, real estate, etc.)

Best you can do is damages. What are your damages? The difference in price between the bike he was supposed to sell you, and a similar bike that you might find (on Craigslist, Cycle Trader, etc) You do NOT have to actually buy the other bike -- but you need EVIDENCE about what similar bikes cost. That might include classified ads. That might include an expert witness (eg. a bike appraiser). You cannot merely assert that the Ebay bike was "worth much more".

If your damages are under $10K, you will be in small claims court. As another person pointed out, you will probably have to file in the county where the Ebay seller lives.

2) Your deal with your friend was not a legally binding agreement. You were doing him a favor. When the ebay deal went south, you had no legal liability to him for the $3000. Essentially, this was a gift from you to him. This is not an item of 'damage' you can claim against the Ebay seller.

 

[reminichole]

Hey dude..

What you have suggested is wrong...

Ticket packages may be listed on eBay, and are exempt from state resale regulations. To qualify as a "ticket package," the listing must not offer the buyer an option to purchase the tickets alone, and must include either:

1. At least one item or experience of substantial value related to the ticket event that the seller has coordinated with the event promoter, team, manager, artist, or venue, such as a backstage pass, a meeting with the performer, or an "experience" such as being a ball boy at a baseball game; or
2. A complete travel package around the event, including BOTH air transportation to the event location and commercial lodging for at least one night. Listings that offer tickets without these travel arrangements do not qualify as travel packages under this policy.

eBay cannot provide legal advice on your ticket transactions, and you should be aware that there may be additional laws (such as laws of local municipalities and laws that require resellers to obtain licenses) that may apply to your transaction. The information provided here is simply provided to you as a starting point for your research. As a ticket seller, you are responsible for ensuring that your particular transaction does not violate any applicable law or the terms on the ticket itself...