Bought and sold undeveloped lots with electric box -- now electric company says there's no box

[Lia]

What is the name of your state? WA, Pierce county

We bought 5 5-acre forested lots with electric transformer box in the middle of 4 lots. We confirmed this information during the feasibility study with the power company who also sent us the map to the box, transformer # and coordinates. We tried to find this box prior to closing but because of blackberries and trees/brush we couldn't . We called the power company few times and all they said "Keep looking, it's there" and that all we need is pay them $200 to put a meter on one lot (but we have to own it). So we went ahead with purchase and sold 3 parcels to a business partner (the deal was that we had to buy all 5 lots together as seller didn't want to separate). Then we brought a tractor and been working there for 3 days trying to find that box. There are lots of old tree stumps that look like a box but when you get to them, it's just another tree stump.

Yesterday we got frustrated as we searched a big area looking for that box and called the power company again. They had a different attitude now, telling us they can't find that box in the system. What???? We stopped everything and rushed to their office before they closed. Turned out they sent someone to look for it and he didn't find it with their equipment so they removed it from their system. Simple as that, right? But we already bought and sold those lots as lots with power. To put the box there would cost somewhere between 10-20K and we'll need a permission from the neighbor to dig through his land to get to ours. Not to mention, it will take time and we're already behind on development.

What can we do about it? We called one lawyer and he said that we have a case but we need to find a right lawyer to take it. What can be the outcome of the case? Is it possible to "make" the power company to put the transformer there at their expense? We have all their emails with maps and coordinates, etc. Also could it be that they took money to put it there but never did? (the estimation for that is 12-13 years ago).

 

[Ohiogal]

Get thee to an attorney

 

[justalayman]

To your last statement; could the power company accepted money and not installed the transformer? Sure.

If they had it recorded it as installed it is likely any easements required have already been obtained. That is something you should speak with the power company about.

As to hearing to an attorney; I’m not sure that would be needed at this point. So far you haven’t said the power company has refused to install the power they say had already been installed.


There is always a possibility that somebody stole the thing. Transformers are not generally energized (or allowed to remain energized) unless it is being actively used. It is a safety and liability issue for the power company. Somebody may have stolen the entire thing.


If you have had the lots surveyed I would use the ground layout to aid in attempting to locate where the transformer is supposed to be using the ground layout in conjunction with the power company’s coordinates. It isn’t unheard of for a power company to “miss” the marke and install outside of an easement but they generally attempt to put the things where they are legally allowed to. I would think it is close to where their coordinates say it is.



What did the seller put in any disclosure regarding power being on the property? Have you spoken to the seller about the issue?

While you may need the services of an attorney, right now who you may have an action against isn’t clear.

 

[HRZ]

IF somebody paid for a substation box some years ago and you can dust off the records to show same I would hope the power company can see fit to get it installed now at no added expense . I be have my local utility honor some rather old agreements once the records were dusted off. And your recent records from the power company as to map, transformer number , coordinates sort of back up the view it is be there ...you may need to jawbone the point further up the chain of command .

 

[Lia]

Thank you for your replies. Yes, the guy from engineering department will go there on Monday to look for it again and we'll be there as well. They dug up some records of a concrete well being there instead or something... There were 3 people from their engineering department helping us and they were acting strange, so to speak.

We spoke with our realtor today about contacting the seller for their side of the story on this matter. The listing had only one picture and it was a map of lots with the transformer box in the middle highlighted and in utilities description, electricity status stated "on property".

We'll see what he will find on Monday but speaking to the supervisor or whoever's in charge there will be our next stop. There wasn't enough time yesterday as we got there 5 minutes before they closed.

About any easements for digging, etc -- the seller owned the neighboring lot that they sold 7 years ago. The power company is not refusing to install the power there -- the conversation about installing hasn't come up yet because until yesterday we were 100% sure that the power was already there.

 

[justalayman]

It sounds like more investigation is needed prior to making any conclusions. Maybe a lot of investigaton. Hopefully the people you sold property to will be understanding of the issue and give you time to figure things out before heading to the lawyers office.

 

[FarmerJ]

Since its another lovely day in the wooded hood (unlike yesterdays high of 60 and windy) perhaps you should go to the area again and look for the first green transformer box near that land but easier to find such as along a township road or county road to give you a place to start looking from ( im wondering if a metal detector could read deep enough to find the lines ? )

 

[HRZ]

Often a marketing description of the property carries little legal weight and/ or contains a disclaimer ....so don't bet the ranch on the marketing info unless it's the n the deed ...also most realtors are agents of the seller ...that said I think it's reasonable to jawbone both the realtor and the seller tomcome out and find the transformer !

Technology varies ...but a buried conductor should be well within " finding" capability to those who do such things...be it power company, line locator services, or the geek down the block with a fancy detector that finds tiny metal things 4' underground on old battlefields

 

[justalayman]

Often a marketing description of the property carries little legal weight and/ or contains a disclaimer ....so don't bet the ranch on the marketing info unless it's the n the deed ...also most realtors are agents of the seller ...that said I think it's reasonable to jawbone both the realtor and the seller tomcome out and find the transformer !

Technology varies ...but a buried conductor should be well within " finding" capability to those who do such things...be it power company, line locator services, or the geek down the block with a fancy detector that finds tiny metal things 4' underground on old battlefields

The presence of electricity on the property is not something that would show up on a deed but it is definitely something a buyer can depend on as an enticement to purchase. Op performed their due diligence and checked with the power company who validated what the seller stated that power was present.


What I would suggest is locate all the ariel power lines in the area. Follow each one (if there is more than one) and look for conductors running down one of the poles. They are often covered by a roughy semi circular piece of metal attached to the pole covering the wires. Sometimes conduit (round pipe probably plastic and gray colored) is used.

If you find no poles in the area with conductors running down the poles there is probably no transformer. In fact the power company’s drawings should indicate what pole the power is fed from. If you find a pole that does have a free, use the power company’s drawing to attempt to locate the transformer from that starting point. If you have a metal detector you may be able to follow the conductors underground.

 

[Lia]

To answer some of the suggestions: the electric cables are buried in that area so there are no electric poles or anything visible to rely on except the transformer boxes.

UPDATE. 1. Their tech didn't find anything so now the transformer officially "not there".

2. We sent a letter from our lawyer to determine whether they are immune to being liable (in case if they are a government company) -- they are not as they are a private company and the only one that supplies electricity for the area.

In the reply letter from their lawyer they are kind of playing dumb, saying that they sent us an old drawings from a proposed job that was canceled. The previous owner paid $**** but then canceled the job and got refund except for $1K. Part of the letter:

"However, your letter does not say when the sale that you are referring to occurred or provide any information about the “multiple confirmations” provided by electric company about the transformer in question. Could you please provide that information.

Electric company did receive an inquiry via email on April 10, 2018 from *** (us) about the availability of service to the property. The email indicated that she had twice looked for a transformer on the property and was unable to locate one, i.e. she was apparently aware that no transformer existed. An email was sent to Mr. **** that included a part of system map that included the planned transformer based on Mr. **** cancelled 2007 request. However, because that request was cancelled, that transformer was never constructed and that drawing was in error. "

So lawyer has our email info but somehow fails to see the emails that were sent to us by their engineering department and contained maps and GPS coordinates. He says that I "was apparently aware that no transformer existed"???? Really? I couldn't find it. During feasibility study electric company was insisting that it's there and suggested that we keep looking. That's why maps and coordinates were sent to me. That's why we spent 4 days looking for it and hired a tractor to remove blackberries and brush.

Also in the end he admits about the "error". So what should we do now? Our lawyer says that to start suing them, he needs to go and do research about similar cases and their outcome. We are thinking to email them and ask them how they plan to resolve this without both of us spending $$$ on lawyers. All we want from them is to put that transformer there. What do you think? Is it reasonable? We are not asking to refund the tractor fee and our 4 days looking for something that was never there but if it goes to court and we win, the fees will be added.

 

[HRZ]

Get thee an attorney and sue the seller ....if per the electric company letter the fee to place a transformer was refunded all but $1000 then the seller knew darn well there was no power. DId seller represent in writing that power was there ? I simply don't know if doctrine of merger applies ...land wo power is not fit for the purposes intended .

 

[Zigner]

...land wo power is not fit for the purposes intended .

That's a bit of a stretch if one doesn't know the "intended purpose". In other words, perhaps the buyer wanted the land to remain in it's natural state as a sort of "nature preserve".

 

[Lia]

Our realtor told us that we can't sue the seller.
1. All representations in the listing "to be verified by the buyer" which we did during the feasibility study and got a confirmation from the electric company that power is there, including email proof with maps and coordinates. I wish that we taped those conversations.

2. If we found anything else, we had 10 days after the closing to notify the seller -- which passed a long time ago.

3. It was not a seller but his partner who owned the neighboring lot -- he did the application for the transformer. When our realtor contacted the seller's realtor after electric company told us "opps, there's no transformer", he replied that he will contact the partner about it but we never heard back (apparently they had a "fall out" and they lost a lot of $$$ on this project). We already got that info from the letter that we got from the electric company lawyer.

 

[Lia]

Does anyone know where I can research about similar cases of lawsuits against the electric company's mistakes and their outcome?

 

[Zigner]

Frankly, you are probably best served by speaking with a real-estate attorney about your matter.