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Buying a logo online

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quincy

Senior Member
I understand. But I can still use my idea of a logo but not exactly the same, am I correct?
I don’t know whether you can use your idea for a logo or not. A personal review and research is required to know whether your use would infringe on anyone else’s rights.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
No. Not really. An IP attorney in Colorado is fine.
She is going to be using it in France. An attorney in Colorado isn't going to know whether or not her logo will violate anyone else's rights in France.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Wrong. A Colorado trademark attorney can certainly research French trademarks and copyrights from Colorado.

Through the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), anyone can search for registered French logos and trademarks. And registration, as I said earlier, is what provides for trademark protection in France. It is the first to register a mark in France who is the presumed owner of the mark. In the US, on the other hand, it is the first to use the mark in commerce who is the presumed owner of the mark.
 

Liza38

Member
So I am more and more confused by the situation. I received an email from a generic email of the support team stating that copyright and trademarking are optional and I can use the logo wherever I want. However, in this same email thread, a project manager was threatening me of a lawsuit if I was using it. So, I told them that I was confused about their mixed messages and I would like a transfer of ownership document. They want to schedule a phone call... What is your advice? I am lost.... Thank you again
 

Liza38

Member
Not having a written contract was a mistake.

You will want this “package” you purchased personally reviewed by an IP attorney.

It is important to note that what you purchased in California might not be useable as a company identifier in France.

Are you marketing goods or services in France? Are there competing goods or services being offered in France under the same or similar name or logo? You have registered nothing?
At one point, we are going to offer services: ABA therapy for kids with autism. Our name is already registered and there is no logo or name like it in France.
 

quincy

Senior Member
So I am more and more confused by the situation. I received an email from a generic email of the support team stating that copyright and trademarking are optional and I can use the logo wherever I want. However, in this same email thread, a project manager was threatening me of a lawsuit if I was using it. So, I told them that I was confused about their mixed messages and I would like a transfer of ownership document. They want to schedule a phone call... What is your advice? I am lost.... Thank you again
You should sit down with an attorney in your area to go over the “package” you purchased.

Copyrights are automatic. They exist as a protectable right as soon as an original and creative work is fixed in tangible form. If the logo has a creative and original design, the design is automatically covered as a copyright-protected work - and the creator of this original and creative work is the copyright holder, absent any written agreement to the contrary.

Copyrights do not have to be federally registered to be offered copyright protection. The advantage to registering a copyright is that registration not only provides a (rebuttable) proof of ownership and a creation date, it also makes a copyright holder who registers a work in the US eligible for statutory damages should the copyright be infringed. Without registration, if the work is infringed, the copyright holder is only eligible to collect from the infringer the copyright-holder’s provable losses or the demonstrated profits of the infringer.

Trademarks also do not have to be registered. In the US, trademark rights arise from the use of the trademark (and logos are trademarks) in commerce. Federal registration of the trademark, however, provides proof of ownership and an official date that the trademark was first used as a company’s identifier.

Unlike the US, however, most countries (like France) use first registration rather than first use in commerce as proof of ownership in the mark.

You have a company that provides a service and you use this name (and a logo) to promote this service. The name and logo distinguishes your company and its service from those of all others. These are your trademarks.

An example: You market your shoe repair service under the name of Sally’s Soles, and your logo is a pair of shoes. You are the first to operate your service in the US and your trademarks are protected under both copyright and trademark laws, with or without registration.

Now you decide to expand this service to France but do not register either the name or the logo. Someone in France takes your name and registers it - or perhaps they registered it before you expanded to France. They are the presumed owners of the trademarks in France. You need to come up with another name.

Another example: Someone designs a creative logo for Sally’s Soles and you start to use it as a visual identifier for your company. The creator of this logo still owns the copyright in the logo if no transfer of rights agreement was signed.

Again, you will need to seek out personal assistance in your area, to see if you actually own the rights to the logo and to see if whatever package you purchased does what you think or hope it does. I can’t tell you if it does or doesn’t - but without any written contract, I would worry.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
You should sit down with an attorney in your area to go over the “package” you purchased.

Copyrights are automatic. They exist as a protectable right as soon as an original and creative work is fixed in tangible form. If the logo has a creative and original design, the design is automatically covered as a copyright-protected work - and the creator of this original and creative work is the copyright holder, absent any written agreement to the contrary.

Copyrights do not have to be federally registered to be offered copyright protection. The advantage to registering a copyright is that registration not only provides a (rebuttable) proof of ownership and a creation date, it also makes a copyright holder who registers a work in the US eligible for statutory damages should the copyright be infringed. Without registration, if the work is infringed, the copyright holder is only eligible to collect from the infringer the copyright-holder’s provable losses or the demonstrated profits of the infringer.

Trademarks also do not have to be registered. In the US, trademark rights arise from the use of the trademark (and logos are trademarks) in commerce. Federal registration of the trademark, however, provides proof of ownership and an official date that the trademark was first used as a company’s identifier.

Unlike the US, however, most countries (like France) use first registration rather than first use in commerce as proof of ownership in the mark.

You have a company that provides a service and you use this name (and a logo) to promote this service. The name and logo distinguishes your company and its service from those of all others. These are your trademarks.

An example: You market your shoe repair service under the name of Sally’s Soles, and your logo is a pair of shoes. You are the first to operate your service in the US and your trademarks are protected under both copyright and trademark laws, with or without registration.

Now you decide to expand this service to France but do not register either the name or the logo. Someone in France takes your name and registers it - or perhaps they registered it before you expanded to France. They are the presumed owners of the trademarks in France. You need to come up with another name.

Another example: Someone designs a creative logo for Sally’s Soles and you start to use it as a visual identifier for your company. The creator of this logo still owns the copyright in the logo if no transfer of rights agreement was signed.

Again, you will need to seek out personal assistance in your area, to see if you actually own the rights to the logo and to see if whatever package you purchased does what you think or hope it does. I can’t tell you if it does or doesn’t - but without any written contract, I would worry.
I am sorry Q, but everything that you have said here is based on US law...and we all know that this is a logo that is NOT going to be used in the US...nor does it address the post by the OP that you quoted, as far as I am concerned.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I am sorry Q, but everything that you have said here is based on US law...and we all know that this is a logo that is NOT going to be used in the US...nor does it address the most recent post by the OP.
I am sorry, LdiJ, but please reread what I wrote. What I wrote is NOT based only on US law. I know what I am talking about.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
So I am more and more confused by the situation. I received an email from a generic email of the support team stating that copyright and trademarking are optional and I can use the logo wherever I want. However, in this same email thread, a project manager was threatening me of a lawsuit if I was using it. So, I told them that I was confused about their mixed messages and I would like a transfer of ownership document. They want to schedule a phone call... What is your advice? I am lost.... Thank you again
You can agree to the phone call. Your argument should be that they advertised a package, you paid for the package, and that you should be provided the logo you paid for, without any threats that you cannot use it.

Now, the reality of things is that without trademark protection (in France, not the US since France is where you intend to use it) there is always the possibility that someone could challenge your logo as infringing on a trademarked logo/advertising of theirs. Therefore, registering or trademarking the logo in France would likely be a wise thing to do.
 

quincy

Senior Member
You can agree to the phone call. Your argument should be that they advertised a package, you paid for the package, and that you should be provided the logo you paid for, without any threats that you cannot use it.

Now, the reality of things is that without trademark protection (in France, not the US since France is where you intend to use it) there is always the possibility that someone could challenge your logo as infringing on a trademarked logo/advertising of theirs. Therefore, registering or trademarking the logo in France would likely be a wise thing to do.
It depends on the “package,” LdiJ. Without a written and signed agreement, the rights to any copyright in the logo are not transferred.

Registration of the trademarks (name and logo) can be accomplished in the US through the United States Patent and Trademark Office (https://www.uspto.gov). A US trademark owner can file for registration of their trademarks for use in Madrid Protocol countries by filing a single standardized English-language application at the USPTO.

The international bureau is the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), which is the central registration office for trademarks in the member countries.

Once again, there should be a personal review by an IP attorney in Colorado to determine what exactly it is that Liza38 purchased. She does not want to face an infringement suit.
 

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