California will - requirement to handwrite witnesses addresses

[slamtry]

I am in California and am in the process of making my will using a form provided by a Nolo advice book. The will should be simple - I am unmarried and have no real estate and no kids.

The will form has three places where the witnesses sign and date to attest to the fact that they have witnessed my own signature. I know that they must do this at the time and by hand. Beneath these spaces there are corresponding spaces to print their names and addresses. My question is: can these last two details be printed in advance like the rest of the will? To be clear, can the names and addresses of the witnesses be entered into the form on the computer and subsequently printed out for us all to sign and date by hand together or are the witnesses required to handwrite their names and addresses as well as the date and their actual signatures?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Seeing as the law doesn't require the addresses there should be no problem in your pre-printing them. They are a good idea though, in case the witnesses need to be tracked down or just to prove there was a John Smith that could have witnessed it, years or decades in the future.

(a) Except as provided in this part, a will shall be in writing and satisfy the requirements of this section.
(b) The will shall be signed by one of the following:
(1) By the testator.
(2) In the testator’s name by some other person in the testator’s presence and by the testator’s direction.
(3) By a conservator pursuant to a court order to make a will under Section 2580.
(c) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the will shall be witnessed by being signed, during the testator’s lifetime, by at least two persons each of whom (A) being present at the same time, witnessed either the signing of the will or the testator’s acknowledgment of the signature or of the will and (B) understand that the instrument they sign is the testator’s will.
(2) If a will was not executed in compliance with paragraph (1), the will shall be treated as if it was executed in compliance with that paragraph if the proponent of the will establishes by clear and convincing evidence that, at the time the testator signed the will, the testator intended the will to constitute the testator’s will.

 

[adjusterjack]

The will form has three places where the witnesses sign and date to attest to the fact that they have witnessed my own signature. I know that they must do this at the time and by hand. Beneath these spaces there are corresponding spaces to print their names and addresses.

Are you including the "self-proving" affidavit?

If not, you would be wise to do so. That way the witnesses don't have to be located when the will gets probated.

Nolo should have the format available.

 

[HRZ]

That's not quite correct for CA and is readily covered by proper draftsmanship if designed for CA use ...multiple explanations on line

 

[slamtry]

Well it seems I can print their addresses and I have done so. Can I also print out the date that they sign it? I would of course make sure that it was correct on the day that they actually sign.

 

[xylene]

Are your witnesses not good with penmanship? The address ok, but the date is overkill. use a good quality archival pen, not just any old ball point.

 

[ALawyer]

In California a Will (other than a holographic - i.e. handwritten -- Will) must be witnessed and signed by at least 2 witnesses to be valid. Both of the witnesses should be present and thus jointly witness your execution (signing) of the Will and set forth the date they saw you sign the Will. Have them print their names and address on the Will beneath their signature -- you may know where they live and how to spell their names but your heirs and executor may not.

Alternatively the witnesses can all/both be present when you acknowledge to them that the document is your Will, and that you had previously signed the Will, in which case the witnesses' statement should set forth the date they heard you acknowledge that the document is your Will.

The witnesses should NOT be people who are beneficiaries under the Will (espcially if the Will would give them more than they would receive as an "intestate share" -- that is more than they would inherit if there were no Will.

As people often move, and sometimes change names, or themselves die and thus can not be found when it comes time to file the Will for probate, many lawyers recommend that even though 2 witnesses would be sufficient, you add a 3rd witness.

As most Wills are prepared long before the person who makes the Will dies, as I learned from personal experience, it sometimes can be hard and/or expensive to locate the witnesses after a death (and in some states a probate judge may demand the witnesses appear court or provide an up-to-date affidavit), and get them to sign the paperwork required to satisfy the legal requirements for getting the Will admitted to probate.

Most lawyers therefore also request that the Witnesses sign what is known as a "self-proving affidavit" when they witness the Will, sometimes in a statement separate from the witness statements, although in California that can be done in a statement made under penalty of perjury. (For other states it often has to be done in a document that is notarized by a notary public or other official.)

What if the Will is not executed by the witnesses with the required formalities? California now has a law that enables the probate judge to treat the Will as if it complied with the necessary formalities BUT the proponent must establish by clear and convincing evidence that, at the time the testator signed the document, he or she intended the document to be his or her Will.

 

[TrustUser]

while i personally do not use wills, other than as possible pour-over instruments, i would still have a will notarized

if you get the will notarized at a financial institution, you can probably get employees as your witnesses

 

[Zigner]

while i personally do not use wills, other than as possible pour-over instruments, i would still have a will notarized

There is no legal requirement for a will to be notarized in California. There is also no prohibition against doing so.

 

[TrustUser]

just to be clear, i never said or implied that there was a legal requirement.

i stick by my comment - i would have it notarized. it takes extremely little effort to do so. and if one is ever in a situation of the will being contested due to signatures, one might be very thankful to have it notarized.

i would simply label the process as a potential for a lot of good, with a very minimal cost attached to it.

the absolutely best way of doing it is my suggestion. take it down to your financial institution, have it notarized, and use employees for your witnesses, since they can not be accused of having personal bias about anything.

just another huge glaring reason WHY I DO NOT LIKE WILLS . i consider them to be an invitation for lawyers and the probate system to feast upon.

 

[Zigner]

the absolutely best way of doing it is my suggestion. take it down to your financial institution, have it notarized, and use employees for your witnesses, since they can not be accused of having personal bias about anything.

It is true that they would be considered unbiased, the bigger problem would be locating the later when they are needed. As you know, notarization only proves the identity of the person that is signing. It does nothing to lend any credence to the document itself.

 

[TrustUser]

from my past research, i am not sure that they would need to be located. the judge has 3 witnesses that were there with the notary.

a notary has the responsibility of attesting to the state of being of the signers. by that i mean, if any of these signers seem to be of unstable mind, or being coerced, etc. - the notary is not supposed to notarize the document.

and that is all the judge needs to know. neither the notary nor the witnesses were ever supposed to have anything to do with the contents of the will, so i see no need for a judge to locate a witness.

but my ultimate solution is to make a trust. for this particular situation, a nolo-like trust will well suffice. so it is easy to do, inexpensive, and then we dont need to discuss whether the will should be signed, notarized, etc.

 

[TrustUser]

nor do we have any witnesses. the trust needs to be notarized. and then the op can forget about the probate system.