Can I lose my visits?

[turkeydinner]

What is the name of your state? OKlahoma

I have filed a motion to enforce my visitation...mom has denied for the last 3 years...I HAVE had contact but FAR from the court ordered time....so I filed...and 4 months and 2 court dates later we still havent been in front of the judge....we finally decided that a parenting coordinator might be helpful..but I am wondering...WORSE CASE SENIARIO....if kids go in and say no they dont wanna visit (which is what mom says) surly I wont lose my rights..right?? They are 11, 13, 16 the younger two have always seemed to want to visit and when I asked them they said yes..oldest son seems ok if mom isnt around but the minute she is I get the cold shoulder..now mom says NONE want to visit... So really I hope the parenting coordinator can see through all this mess but what if they dont and the kids say what mom is saying they are saying....?? I know everyone says they cant decide till they are 18 but...like mom said to her attorney "do you know how hard it is to make a 16 year old do anything?? So I say she makes him go to school right?? How does this work??
I really hope the kids tell the truth....but really at 16 who wants to spend the weekend with their dad???

 

[stepmom&mom]

Perhaps I can be of some assistance here. I am from Oklahoma and my husband has just recently dealt with a parenting coordinator. The situation was similar. He was denied any sort of visitation when we first got married, and then he finally got a visitation order (he settled out of court because he was just so happy to finally get to see his daughter!) Needless to say, BM did anything she could to circumvent the order and deny as many visitations as possible. So he decided to file contempt, and ended up agreeing to have a parenting coordinator. Unfortunately, the parenting coordinator got her license taken away so he is going to court in three weeks afterall. My advice is this: go ahead and agree to the parenting coordinator. They are licensed trained counselors. They are not stupid. They will be able to tell if the kid is being coached to behave a certain way or say certain things. I know that your children are older, but no parenting coordinator is going to suggest that a child needs to spend less time with dad simply because they are a teen. You may have one session with the pc by yourself, like my husband, where you get to give your side of the story (and so will your ex) and then the pc will probably have a session alone with the kids, and then a final session with you and the BM. Whatever you do, DO NOT compromise your interest in spending time with your children. You can compromise dates & times, and how it is carried out, but if you give in to less time with your children, the PC will not stop it. The pc's number one goal is to get the parents to work together, and they tend to want the parent who is less hardheaded to give up more, so that there is less conflict. Fortunately, the pc has agreed to testify for us because BM made an idiot out of herself and was very uncooperative. I do not know if this will happen in your case. Just don't give up. Your children need you. When we first started, my husband would go to his supervised visits, and his daughter would want him to leave. Now, when she comes to our house, she hates leaving and wishes she could stay.

 

[bradybunchmom]

no you wont lose your rights but mom HAS to send the kids for visitation

nope. if you have court ordered visitation, hte kids go, or mom can be held in contempt. neither they nor mom dictate visitation. the kids have no choice but to go, and mom has no choice but to send them. no you will no lose your rights, but mom could end up losing custody if she continually denies you visitation.

 

[turkeydinner]

OK I know that she is suppose to send them regardless...and I know that she "can" get in trouble (yet to see it...we've been down this road before) but if she goes to jail who will my kids get mad at?? ME...surley she isnt telling them I'm going to jail because I broke the law....it will all be about how dad is doing this...and that will only push them away more..she has always played the victim..nothing is ever her fault... I feel like if I throw my hands up I have failed my children....but if I fight who am I fighting her or them?? Please help I am so worried I will push too hard but also worried I wont push enough...

 

[LdiJ]

OK I know that she is suppose to send them regardless...and I know that she "can" get in trouble (yet to see it...we've been down this road before) but if she goes to jail who will my kids get mad at?? ME...surley she isnt telling them I'm going to jail because I broke the law....it will all be about how dad is doing this...and that will only push them away more..she has always played the victim..nothing is ever her fault... I feel like if I throw my hands up I have failed my children....but if I fight who am I fighting her or them?? Please help I am so worried I will push too hard but also worried I wont push enough...

You have a dilemna that has faced many divorced parents of teenagers, for many years. Yes, unfortunately, if mom gets punished in some serious way you are going to get blamed for it by the kids. Yes, unfortunately if you don't push hard then the bonds between you and your kids will erode.

Its also probable that even though your 16 year old loves you, that she has things of her own that she wants to do on weekends...and may really need/want you to be flexible with her. Remember, in less than two years it will be completely her choice whether or not to spend time with you. You don't want her to see age 18 as "freedom from dad day".

However the younger two are not at that stage in their lives yet....and you really do need to fully enforce visitation with them, as long as you still allow some occasional flexibility for things that are important to them.

 

[turkeydinner]

I completely agree..and have tried to be flexible..but mom thinks that she has say so on what happens on my time..SHE allows them to make plans with little or NO regard to me or plans we have made....
The last time my oldest didnt come I called and left a message telling him it was ok if he had something planned but I wanted to talk with him about it... and I told my 13 year old the same thing.. (heres a situation that came up to give you an example of what I'm dealing with)....2 visits ago kids come...oldest isnt there I ask where and why? Daughter (13) tells me he didnt want to come... and mom said he didnt have to...she then says that she was suppose to go to a Theme Park with her friends but mom said nope she had to come visit...so I told her she just had to call when things like that came up ..she then said well we didnt have the money and I told her well see had you called we could have worked that out....
Well thats the last time I have seen her..no one showed for the visit last weekend.. I just don't get whats going on..the visit with the youger two have gone fine..nothing going on that would get them to not want to come.. (other than being bored..lol) but these are not things I have done..I have NO PROBLEM letting my children have a life outside of me or my house..I actually encourage it... but mom cant decide and why does she get to..I know she's not suppose to but she does and like you said I can either be the bad guy or lose out with the kids..which is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS....do you think the judge or parenting coordinator will look at my oldest and lay it out for him?/ Or will that be for me to do? I have never said a bad word about their mother to them(not that it wasnt prevoked) but even when she craps on me or my new wife nothing is said in return... and I think thats why we are where we are today..she has gotten away with this for 8 years now...Why would she stop nobody has made her yet??

Thanks for listening...

 

[DsmithAsmith]

No legal advice, just personal experiance

I am not sure if you live far from your ex, but when my parents divorced my sisters and I were 16, 14, and 12. I moved in with my dad (in the same town as my mom), my sisters stayed with my mom.

Sisters 16, and 12 did not want to come to dads. 16 year old had a life 12 year old was afraid of betraying mom. My dad worked VERY hard with my sisters to make them comfortable there. BUT he made it clear to them, when they were on his parenting time, he was the parent. So my sisters were welcome to go on with their social lives etc. but they needed to check with him not mom (mom too if they wanted). If you could get your children on this schedule, then your child who wanted to go to the ammusement park could have asked you, and you could have helped make it happen.

My sisters did not want to come unless they felt like they could have a regular life there. Not like they were in dad prison for 3 days, with no friends and no freedom. It took extra effort on my dads part, he had to be willing and able to drive them and pick them up, as well as do with out a little of his visiting time. But to him it was worth it. I remember it was a difficult time for all of us, but we have grown closer as a family because I know my dad worked hard so he could see us! Good luck with your ex.

 

[LdiJ]

I completely agree..and have tried to be flexible..but mom thinks that she has say so on what happens on my time..SHE allows them to make plans with little or NO regard to me or plans we have made....
The last time my oldest didnt come I called and left a message telling him it was ok if he had something planned but I wanted to talk with him about it... and I told my 13 year old the same thing.. (heres a situation that came up to give you an example of what I'm dealing with)....2 visits ago kids come...oldest isnt there I ask where and why? Daughter (13) tells me he didnt want to come... and mom said he didnt have to...she then says that she was suppose to go to a Theme Park with her friends but mom said nope she had to come visit...so I told her she just had to call when things like that came up ..she then said well we didnt have the money and I told her well see had you called we could have worked that out....
Well thats the last time I have seen her..no one showed for the visit last weekend.. I just don't get whats going on..the visit with the youger two have gone fine..nothing going on that would get them to not want to come.. (other than being bored..lol) but these are not things I have done..I have NO PROBLEM letting my children have a life outside of me or my house..I actually encourage it... but mom cant decide and why does she get to..I know she's not suppose to but she does and like you said I can either be the bad guy or lose out with the kids..which is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS....do you think the judge or parenting coordinator will look at my oldest and lay it out for him?/ Or will that be for me to do? I have never said a bad word about their mother to them(not that it wasnt prevoked) but even when she craps on me or my new wife nothing is said in return... and I think thats why we are where we are today..she has gotten away with this for 8 years now...Why would she stop nobody has made her yet??

Thanks for listening...

The judges/parenting coordinators usually don't "lay stuff out" like that for the kids. It does happen sometimes, but its not the norm at all. They lay it out for the parents and the parents are expected to deal with their kids.

I observed a case somewhat similar to yours when I was observing cases in court a few months ago. It was a 14 year old girl who didn't want to visit....mostly because she was "bored" at dads. The judge did lecture mom for allowing the child to "choose"...but also lectured dad too.

The judge did NOT find mom in contempt, but did give the "14 year olds do not get to decide" lecture. He then gave them both copies of the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines and ordered them to follow them. THEN, he turned to the dad and said "Remember that the child is 14 and the child has a life. Expect to spend your weekends with your child doing what every other parent does who has teenagers. Expect to be hauling her to social events, school and sporting events and allowing her to spend time with her friends.
Do not expect to turn off your child's normal life on your weekends. Learn to deal with this now or you can expect things to be a lot worse when she turns 16 or 17....and at 17 in particular, I WILL let her decide."

Obviously you aren't in Indiana...but I suspect its applicable advice pretty much everywhere. Teens shouldn't view time at dad's as "boring"...teens should be living their normal lives, but living those lives FROM dad's house during dad's time....and from mom's house during mom's time. If you don't live close enough for that to be workable, then that does make it more difficult.

Please don't get me wrong...I am not criticizing you or minimizing mom's bad behavior. Obviously this isn't a new problem that just sprang up in the teenage years...but is one that is and will be exacerbated by the teenage years.

Why aren't you picking up your kids for your parenting time? Its hard for them to be no-shows if you are going there to pick them up. Its also harder for mom to deny you, and gives you the opportunity to get police documentation of the denial if needed.

 

[turkeydinner]

The judges/parenting coordinators usually don't "lay stuff out" like that for the kids. It does happen sometimes, but its not the norm at all. They lay it out for the parents and the parents are expected to deal with their kids.

I observed a case somewhat similar to yours when I was observing cases in court a few months ago. It was a 14 year old girl who didn't want to visit....mostly because she was "bored" at dads. The judge did lecture mom for allowing the child to "choose"...but also lectured dad too.

The judge did NOT find mom in contempt, but did give the "14 year olds do not get to decide" lecture. He then gave them both copies of the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines and ordered them to follow them. THEN, he turned to the dad and said "Remember that the child is 14 and the child has a life. Expect to spend your weekends with your child doing what every other parent does who has teenagers. Expect to be hauling her to social events, school and sporting events and allowing her to spend time with her friends.
Do not expect to turn off your child's normal life on your weekends. Learn to deal with this now or you can expect things to be a lot worse when she turns 16 or 17....and at 17 in particular, I WILL let her decide."

Obviously you aren't in Indiana...but I suspect its applicable advice pretty much everywhere. Teens shouldn't view time at dad's as "boring"...teens should be living their normal lives, but living those lives FROM dad's house during dad's time....and from mom's house during mom's time. If you don't live close enough for that to be workable, then that does make it more difficult.

Please don't get me wrong...I am not criticizing you or minimizing mom's bad behavior. Obviously this isn't a new problem that just sprang up in the teenage years...but is one that is and will be exacerbated by the teenage years.

Why aren't you picking up your kids for your parenting time? Its hard for them to be no-shows if you are going there to pick them up. Its also harder for mom to deny you, and gives you the opportunity to get police documentation of the denial if needed.

The original court order had regular pick ups... she would not be home and then when I took her to court she said I never showed....
so we agreed on the court house/ sheriffs dept.. she eventually stopped showing up there too... when I filed this she wasnt sending them at all...her attorney asked for a continuence and I said the only way is if she'd send them until the court date which is June 14th she agreed to drop them off at my mothers house...well like I said before my oldest boy hasnt showed up yet...and they all missed last weeks visit...no call nothing..... she doesnt denie sending them anymore..now she just puts it on the kids... so thats where we are now...waiting till I can talk to my kids and get the real truth...when they younger two did show up I wanted to talk to them and find out how they feel about it all because I know she's running her mouth to them ..but my attorney said it would be best to not even mention it to the kids....that way when they come in and say they know about court hte judge can see exactly what SHE says to them...

She told me right after I filed my oldest was upset that I was going to put her in jail....well I didnt even file for jail time..just asked that he would enforce what he had already ordered..nothing in the motion says anything about being punished....so the ONLY reason my son would think this is if she said it...



We do live int he same area....they live in the country and we live in town so keeping their lives active is not a problem... we just dont have a horse..a pool..a game room...and all the fun stuff...lol we have more kids in this house and things are tight but far from boring..lol

 

[stealth2]

As long as you allow yourself to be treated as a doormat, you will continue being treated like one. YOU are also putting the kids in the middle. Cut it out. Enforce your visitation rights through the courts and that's it.

 

[turkeydinner]

As long as you allow yourself to be treated as a doormat, you will continue being treated like one. YOU are also putting the kids in the middle. Cut it out. Enforce your visitation rights through the courts and that's it.

Stealth... I don't know what else to do differently... I have filed in court...right now we wait...I guess the attorney is suppose to call with the number for the Parenting Coordinator and go from there..I have done what my attorney has advised me to do..nothing unreasonable (I feel) My relationship with my children has been strained do to the unregular visits over and over again... maybe I'm not pushing hard enough for mom to be punished ..I don't know.. but I feel that will only push the kids further away.... I am just trying to be a dad... I am not perfect..but I feel as if I've done something wrong.. I understand what your saying about not being a doormat..but I try not to be..there was a time that I can look back on and see where I allowed her to control my relationship with the kids I'm trying to fix it now and maybe it's too late..who knows...But I will try...and hope I havent waited too long..

 

[stealth2]

What I'd be doing is going to the meeting place. If she's not there with the kids - all of them - document it and go to her house. If she's not there, document it by callnig out the cops and asking that a report be written. If she is there, firmly tell the kids that it is time for them to be with you, get in the car. Period. No is not an option as it's been abused.

While I can understand not wanting to be the "bad guy", that's life as a parent. When you allow your kids - or the other parent - to ride roughshod over you, all you do is reinforce their opinion that there is no need to respect your authority as a parent.