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Can I sue for this and what is reasonable amt?

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DHeydt

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?I am located in NJ.

I have had financial troubles recently. I am behind on some of my payments but have never faulted or declared bankruptcy.

One of my store branded revolving credit cards is behind payment 2 months.

The credt card company called my home at 8:30am on Sunday September 11 (isn't this considered a holiday?! and it's a Sunday!) while I was still sleeping. My wife (who is not on the account and was not even aware that I had this account) answered the phone. After telling the person I was unavailable they informed her that I needed to call them back because my account was 2 months past due.

To make this matter worse is that I opened the account to buy a gift for my wife. One of the reasons I am having financial difficulty is because my wife had some unexpected medical bills. Now on top of this she now knows that not only that I needed to get credit to buy her the gift but that her medical needs have caused me a great deal of stress in repaying the debt.

I can't even begin to tell you how horrible this single phone call has made my life!

According to Title 15 USC 1692c a debt collector is not allowed to communicate with a third party regarding my debt but wat can I do about this?
 


CO19

Member
DHeydt said:
What is the name of your state?I am located in NJ.

According to Title 15 USC 1692c a debt collector is not allowed to communicate with a third party regarding my debt but wat can I do about this?
> The original CREDITOR (credit card company) is NOT a debt collector and not bound under the FDCPA.
 

DHeydt

Junior Member
But what's the answer?

I may have been looking at the wrong set of laws but I find it hard to believe that a creditor is not required to keep your information confidential in the same way that a collection agency would. If the Fair Debt Collection Practises Act does not apply to creditors then what does?

Would you think it's acceptable if your credit card company called your sister or mother and told her how much you owed and that you were late with your payment? Perhaps they should publish this information in the local newspaper so that all your friends and relatives could keep tabs on you.

You may be right that this law doesn't apply but then what's the answer, can I sue them or not? Honestly I would be happy if they would just cut me a break and mark my account current until next month and give me some breathing room with the bills. I'm not looking for a hand-out. I'm just tired of being treated like crap by people that are making money hand-over-fist from me.
 

Debt Guy

Senior Member
Original creditors are simply not subject to the laws that govern collection agencies. Even the FDCPA allows communication with spouses in certain states. I can't remember if NJ is one of those states or not.

If the OC is a bank, there are certain financial privacy laws that govern banks. But, I don't think they are strict liability statutes like the FDCPA.

You can sue if you want. Heck, you can sue anyone for anything.

But, there are some practical hurdles. First, you got to figure out exactly what law they broke. Next, you got to figure out if that law is actionable by a consumer (much banking law is actionable only by the regulatory bodies). Then, the burden of proof is on you (how are you going to prove they called and what they said -- judges hate "did too - did not" type arguements.

Finally, you got to decide if it is worth the cost. It is very remote that you will find an attorney to take this on as a contingent case. It is even more unlikely an attorney will take it as a pro bono case.

What happened was crappy. My advice is to forget the lawsuit and just vote with your feet. That is, close that account and never do business with that company again and tell everyone you know to do the same.

If you want, you can file a complaint with the banking regulators and the state attorney general. Won't do much good but it might make you feel better.

Just my opinion --- I am sure others will think differently and they will chime in.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
Debt Guy said:
... Even the FDCPA allows communication with spouses in certain states.
The only states where spouses are considered 3rd parties are CT (absolute) and IA (conditional -- if the spouse asks ok to talk).


DHeydt said:
The credt card company called my home at 8:30am on Sunday September 11 (isn't this considered a holiday?! and it's a Sunday!) while I was still sleeping. My wife (who is not on the account and was not even aware that I had this account) answered the phone. After telling the person I was unavailable they informed her that I needed to call them back because my account was 2 months past due.
1. The OC isn't bound by the FDCPA.
2. The FDCPA specifically requires all calls to be made between 8 am and 9 pm. Sunday doesn't make any difference and neither does holidays (except many CA employees like to have holidays off). Personally I like calling on Sundays. People are home and answer the phone.

DHeydt said:
Honestly I would be happy if they would just cut me a break and mark my account current until next month and give me some breathing room with the bills. I'm not looking for a hand-out. I'm just tired of being treated like crap by people that are making money hand-over-fist from me.
You boss would probably like you to give him a break and not take your paycheck next week and give him some breathing room on his bills. C'mon, you are looking for a handout. Stop playing games and blaming everything for your situation. Instead of spending your time to find a way to get back at the people who have the audacity to collect on the debt you owe them, try spending that time figuring out how you can pay them.

And they aren't making anything on you --- YOU AREN'T PAYING YOUR BILL. Everyday you go without paying their costs increase.

That is the typical debtor mentality -- the one that gets most of them in trouble. Everything is somebody else's fault. No personal responsibility. They called because you didn't pay the bill. You wife took the call because you were in bed asleep at 8:30 in morning. Your wife got upset because you spent money you didn't have to buy her a present she probable doesn't need.

Now you say the least they can do is mark the account current. What is the least you can do?

DC
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
Even the FDCPA allows communication with spouses in certain states. I can't remember if NJ is one of those states or not.
Actually, the FDCPA does not classify a spouse as a 'third party contact'. Unless STATE law is more restrictive and prohibits it, they can talk to your wife. But then, original creditors aren't bound by the FDCPA. They can call you any time they want and talk to any person they want. However, they do run the risk of then violating the Privacy laws of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.

From the FTC Staff Commentary on the FDCPA:

Section 805(d) -- "consumer" definition. For section 805 purposes, the term "consumer" includes the "consumer's spouse, parent (if the consumer is a minor), guardian, executor, or administrator."

1. Broad "consumer" definition. Because of the broad statutory definition of "consumer" for the purposes of this section, many of its protections extend to parties close to the consumer. For example, the debt collector may not call the consumer's spouse at a time or place known to be inconvenient to the spouse. Conversely, he may call the spouse (guardian, executor, etc.) at any time or place that would be in accord with the limitations of section 805(a).
 

DHeydt

Junior Member
Wow, you guys don't pull any punches. So neither will I! It's very easy to say you spent the money therefore it's your responsiblity. Was it also my responsibility to somehow prevent my wife from getting a lump in her breast and requiring surgery. I'm not God and despite your "holyier than thou" attitude there are things even you can't control in your life Superman!

The present that I bought my wife was a refridgerator! Not some trinket she didn't really need as you imply. At the time our financial situation was good (my wife and I make six figures combined) and I admit I bought the better model for an extra $200. But then I got swamped with the medical bills.

Of course that's my responsibilty too right. We had taken the highest level of insurance available from our jobs and despite what they tell you in all the B***Sh** literature they give you, THEY DON'T COVER JACK!

As for the original creditor losing money, you're insane! I wish I could charge the fees they charge. Add them all up and a 12% credit card yields in excess of 25% or more. They are definitely getting theirs. And I actually wasn't referring to these charges anyway, I was referring to the many years that I have had these credit cards and used them to borrow and pay back over time. Sure, let's get out the crying towel for the poor poor credit card companies.

As for my employer, they declared bankruptcy and wether I want to give them a break or not doesn't matter. They currently owe me $1000 which I have waited almost a month for (for travel expenses on my G** D**** credit cards!)

I am finding out just a little too late how much of a scam the whole credit industry is. They approve much more credit than you're actually capable of paying off (and they know it). Then they sit back and wait like vultures for you to either strecth a little too far over your limit or like in my case to have an unexpected liability.

I tried to get a consolidation loan from Wells Fargo and this is the deal they actually offered me. I have a loan with them for just under $1000 at 12%. I also have a student loan with them $2000 at 5.5%. I also have my credit card for about $2000 at 18% (the one that started this whole conversation). They agreed to refinance the existing loan to $5500 (loans plus an additional $500) providing I pay off the student loan and the credit card. Sounds great, but wait, the interest on the new loan would be 30%! Yes that's right THREE ZERO - THIRTY PERCENT.

They know I'm desperate just by looking at my credit report and they are going to use that to squeeze every last penny out of me. If all of my accounts were current the rate would be less than 25% which is why I would be happy if they just marked my account cuurent and allowed me to refinance and get back on my feet.

As for taking personal responsibilty for my actions, I thought I made it clear that I wasn't really interested in getting the money so much as just having the hounds back off a little. I have sold off quite a few of my personal items (eBay is a life saver) and I have been looking to improve my employment both my primary job and any side jobs that I can get. Never did I even think to shirk the responsibility of paying back the money owed but I'll tell you that the creditors that treat me with respect and dignity always get paid first.

So the answer I guess is that my creditor did not break the law. Good for him! He's still an a**hole.

As for your comments about me playing games and blaming someone else for my mistakes. I didn't blame anyone else for my debt. I am still paying my bills according to the original agreement which stipulates how late payments will be handled etc... and I'm doing the best I can under my current circumstances.

My question was posted here because I thought the creditor broke the law and you have explained how this was not true. Isn't that what this forum is for? The insults and sarcasm however, were unnecessary.
 

CO19

Member
[QUOTE=DHeydt

But then I got swamped with the medical bills.
> Did you know that is near the top, if not the top, reason people file Banko?
I do have to say that I have more compassion for these particular debtors than the rest.



I am finding out just a little too late how much of a scam the whole credit industry is. They approve much more credit than you're actually capable of paying off (and they know it). Then they sit back and wait like vultures for you to either strecth a little too far over your limit or like in my case to have an unexpected liability.
> I absolutely agree with you!!


As for taking personal responsibilty for my actions, I thought I made it clear that I wasn't really interested in getting the money so much as just having the hounds back off a little.

>Yes, debt collectors (inhouse or 3rd party) can be an annoying group. However, keep in mind that they are doing a job, sit on dialers, and system is dialing hundreds of debtors a day.

I didn't blame anyone else for my debt. I am still paying my bills according to the original agreement which stipulates how late payments will be handled etc... and I'm doing the best I can under my current circumstances.

>Continue doing the best you can.... is all you or anyone can do.
 
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Ladynred

Senior Member
Hey DHeydt - consider the source when reading "debtcollector"'s responses, he IS a collector and hence has the typical collector attitude and mindset - we're ALL deadbeats if you don't pay a bill, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what happens in your life to cause the payment problems - not even DEATH ! All debt collectors think consumers have a hidden pot of gold somewhere but we just won't give THEM any. :rolleyes:

Welcome to the world of huge corporate greed and consumer rape - all in the form of loanshark interest rates, and fees up the wazoo for any damn thing they can think of. I agree with you, they're not losing any money - not unless you file for bankruptcy, THEN they really do have to write that off as a loss.. but poor, poor credit card company.. take their tax break and sell the debt and make money on it anyway !! Depsite recored bankruptcy rates, the credit card companies made $35 BILLION in PROFITS last year - the majority of it in their damn fees, fees, fees, fees !! No tears shed here either.

On another note, and as a woman, I hope your wife's health recovers, that has to be one of the more frightful things to go through. She sure doesn't need to deal with some dumbazz rude collector !
 

TigerD

Senior Member
CO19 said:
But then I got swamped with the medical bills.
> Did you know that is near the top, if not the top, reason people file Banko?
I do have to say that I have more compassion for these particular debtors than the rest.
You know, actually I do too.

So now the story comes out. When the OP posted his first two posts he didn't say, "My wife had cancer and we had some hard times what should I do?" He said "The credt card company called my home at 8:30am on Sunday September 11 (isn't this considered a holiday?! and it's a Sunday!) while I was still sleeping....(skip to post two)...can I sue them or not? Honestly I would be happy if they would just cut me a break and mark my account current."

I'll take the heat for being hard on someone that doesn't deserve it; but with his posts -- he did deserve to be come down on hard -- I'll not apoligize for the content of my post. As for the tone of my post, I will apoligize for the tone of my posting. It was a long rough day.

DC

PS: DHeydt -- I am sure all of us on this site wish your wife the best in her health battle.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
You know, I just re-read Dheyt's last posting and a few thing were bothering me.

DHeydt said:
...(my wife and I make six figures combined) ...a 12% credit card yields in excess of 25% or more.
You folks made a combined income in excess of $100,000 per year and the best credit card you could get was 12%??????!!

DHeydt said:
I tried to get a consolidation loan from Wells Fargo and this is the deal they actually offered me. I have a loan with them for just under $1000 at 12%. I also have a student loan with them $2000 at 5.5%. I also have my credit card for about $2000 at 18% (the one that started this whole conversation). They agreed to refinance the existing loan to $5500 (loans plus an additional $500) providing I pay off the student loan and the credit card. Sounds great, but wait, the interest on the new loan would be 30%! Yes that's right THREE ZERO - THIRTY PERCENT.
1. Nonsense. Wells Fargo would not write a personal loan that was that high risk that they had to charge 30 percent.
2. You stated that you and your wife made more than 100G so this loan you so despiritely need is like 2.5 weeks of pay.

DHeydt said:
They know I'm desperate just by looking at my credit report and they are going to use that to squeeze every last penny out of me. If all of my accounts were current the rate would be less than 25% which is why I would be happy if they just marked my account cuurent and allowed me to refinance and get back on my feet.
Again I have to say I think you are full of crap. If your accounts were current and you had a decent credit score Wells Fargo would offer you a rate very similiar to the one they keep offering my wife and I which is 8.5% for a $15,000 personal loan. We keep refusing it because we don't need it and haven't asked for it. That is responsibility.

DHeydt said:
My question was posted here because I thought the creditor broke the law .... Isn't that what this forum is for? The insults and sarcasm however, were unnecessary.
They were a bonus.

DC
 
wells fargo financial

debtcollector` said:
You know, I just re-read Dheyt's last posting and a few thing were bothering me.


You folks made a combined income in excess of $100,000 per year and the best credit card you could get was 12%??????!!


1. Nonsense. Wells Fargo would not write a personal loan that was that high risk that they had to charge 30 percent.
2. You stated that you and your wife made more than 100G so this loan you so despiritely need is like 2.5 weeks of pay.


Again I have to say I think you are full of crap. If your accounts were current and you had a decent credit score Wells Fargo would offer you a rate very similiar to the one they keep offering my wife and I which is 8.5% for a $15,000 personal loan. We keep refusing it because we don't need it and haven't asked for it. That is responsibility.


They were a bonus.

DC
Wells Fargo Financial would When I was younger and less educated financially I had a loan with them and periodically they would offer more money, roll over the old loan, charge fees,sell insurance on the loan etc. One day as I started to wise up I inquired (I know I was younger and dumber) as to the interest rate I was paying and was shocked to find it over 30%. I asked them to immediatly quit sending me offers and got them paid off.
Recently when I had to finance a car Wells Fargo denied the loan and sent info on Wells Fargo Financial in the same envelope. I have a good credit score but high debt to credit ratio and was able to obtain much better terms at a credit union.
 

DHeydt

Junior Member
First to the people that showed concern for my wife and I, thank you! My wife is doing well.

As for the debtcollector, for a moment there I almost thought you were a human being but then your true colors came out. My original post was simply to find out if it was legal for a creditor to share information with my wife and that should have been the end of discussion.

Of course I didn't disclose all of my finances to you because it was irrelevant to the question. It was only after you started to verbally attack me that I tried to give you an idea of where I was coming from and why I was asking the question.

Let's just say that the intelligent readers here got the point. If you had given this any real thought you would have read between the lines a little and realized that there was more to the story. Perhaps you would like me to write a novel and send it to you so you can personally critique my "personal responsibilty". But honestly I don't need your approval to stand up and defend my family.

You like to single out particular phrases and then jump on them but gloss over the phrases such as "swamped by medical bills". We're not talking a few hundred dollars here buddy, were talking thousands. Also, this didn't just happen yesterday. It's been a long process over a year or so. In addition to the cancer my wife has had severe allergy attacks which no doctors have been able to explain -- but they still want to get paid! Where's their personal responsibility?

I'm not going to list every last detail here but ask yourself where would you come up with an additional $10,000 if you needed it for bills this month? I have had months like that and worse and so my credit cards are all maxed out.

As a debt collector you know damn well what happens to a person's credit score when they max out their credit. I started applying for more credit causing people to check my credit report and you know what happens to your credit score when that happens too, don't you! My score is now below 600.

Despite your high opinion of Wells Fargo they did in fact offer me the loan at 30%. I almost took the loan because everyone else just refused me credit all together. I cannot offer you any proof because the offer was made over the phone but I'll tell you that I spoke to Jess in the New Jersey office. Give her a call and ask her yourself before making accusations.

And just one final word about your so-called "personal responsibility". If my credit card is my personal responsibility then they should have no right to even discuss it with my wife. On the other hand, if the law takes away personal responsibilty by saying that my wife is responsible for my actions then there is no personal responsibility. If my wife is going to be responsible for my debt then she should be made to sign the agreement with me.

When I applied for the credit card they used my income, my credit score, and my credit report to see if I was credit worthy. They did not ask for my wife's information and they made no effort to tell my wife about this credit card prior to me being late with a payment. This may very well be legal but it's just wrong!
 

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