Can I take a creditor back to court after a stipulated judgement has been ordered?

[SissyB0011]

What is the name of your state? Idaho

I have been paying on an old medical bill for over a year...one of those "attorney offices" that are actually aggressive credit agencies. Anyway, I am trying to pull from my 401(k) to pay the balance but cannot prove I owe the original bill.
The hospital where I was seen has no record of the ER visit due to going electronic shortly after. The "lawyer's office" can't seem to produce an original statement nor an itemized accounting of my payments with them, only a current amount owed. *shady*
Question: Can I sue the creditor to provide proof of the debt in question and get my money back if they cannot produce proper documentation? Can I do so in the midst of a stipulated judgement?

Thanks from Idaho!

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state? Idaho

I have been paying on an old medical bill for over a year...one of those "attorney offices" that are actually aggressive credit agencies. Anyway, I am trying to pull from my 401(k) to pay the balance but cannot prove I owe the original bill.
The hospital where I was seen has no record of the ER visit due to going electronic shortly after. The "lawyer's office" can't seem to produce an original statement nor an itemized accounting of my payments with them, only a current amount owed. *shady*
Question: Can I sue the creditor to provide proof of the debt in question and get my money back if they cannot produce proper documentation? Can I do so in the midst of a stipulated judgement?

Thanks from Idaho!

They don't need to provide proof of the original bill at this point - all they need to have is the judgment. Push the hospital - they should still have a copy.

 

[adjusterjack]

Can I sue the creditor to provide proof of the debt in question and get my money back if they cannot produce proper documentation?

No.

You agreed to an enforceable judgment or settlement for X dollars. It's a done deal based on that amount. The creditor doesn't have to prove anything anymore. You've been paying based on that enforceable agreement.

Doesn't matter what the original hospital bill was since you probably agreed to interest and maybe attorney fees added to it.

If you want to pay off the balance based on your judgment, find out what the current amount is and arrange to get a Satisfaction of Judgment signed and filed with the court when you pay it.

One thing, though, if the balance is still high, you might be able to negotiate a discounted lump sum payoff. Just make sure you get that agreement in writing along with the Satisfaction of Judgment.

 

[SissyB0011]

They don't need to provide proof of the original bill at this point - all they need to have is the judgment. Push the hospital - they should still have a copy.

Thank you. I will keep pushing!

 

[SissyB0011]

No.

You agreed to an enforceable judgment or settlement for X dollars. It's a done deal based on that amount. The creditor doesn't have to prove anything anymore. You've been paying based on that enforceable agreement.

Doesn't matter what the original hospital bill was since you probably agreed to interest and maybe attorney fees added to it.

If you want to pay off the balance based on your judgment, find out what the current amount is and arrange to get a Satisfaction of Judgment signed and filed with the court when you pay it.

One thing, though, if the balance is still high, you might be able to negotiate a discounted lump sum payoff. Just make sure you get that agreement in writing along with the Satisfaction of Judgment.

Thanks for your response!

 

[Zigner]

The OP's problem (I think) is that she wants to make some sort of hardship withdrawal from her 401k, so needs to prove what the original bill was.

 

[SissyB0011]

The OP's problem (I think) is that she wants to make some sort of hardship withdrawal from his 401k, so needs to prove what the original bill was.

Zigner..you are correct. I was hoping to pay this off d/t the interest being charged. Looks as though I'm stuck either way

 

[Zigner]

I don't believe that your situation would qualify for a hardship withdrawal in the first place. This is not an immediate need that you can't satisfy any other way.

 

[Taxing Matters]

The OP's problem (I think) is that she wants to make some sort of hardship withdrawal from his 401k, so needs to prove what the original bill was.

As a side note, the OP got it right — it's a § 401(k) plan, not 401k, 401K, 401-k, or any of the other variations I see on the internet and elsewhere. The plans are provided for in Internal Revenue Code (IRC) § 401(k). I mention this every time I see it (as Jack knows, as he's commented on it) as part of my effort to get the world to get the reference right.

 

[Zigner]

As a side note, the OP got it right — it's a § 401(k) plan, not 401k, 401K, 401-k, or any of the other variations I see on the internet and elsewhere. The plans are provided for in Internal Revenue Code (IRC) § 401(k). I mention this every time I see it (as Jack knows, as he's commented on it) as part of my effort to get the world to get the reference right.

Although I "liked" your post, my comment to it would be "meh"

 

[Zigner]

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-plans-faqs-regarding-hardship-distributions

2. What is the IRS definition of hardship for a 401(k) plan?


For a distribution from a 401(k) plan to be on account of hardship, it must be made on account of an immediate and heavy financial need of the employee and the amount must be necessary to satisfy the financial need. The need of the employee includes the need of the employee's spouse or dependent. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(i))


Under the provisions of the Pension Protection Act of 2006, the need of the employee also may include the need of the employee's non-spouse, non-dependent beneficiary.


Whether a need is immediate and heavy depends on the facts and circumstances. Certain expenses are deemed to be immediate and heavy, including: (1) certain medical expenses; (2) costs relating to the purchase of a principal residence; (3) tuition and related educational fees and expenses; (4) payments necessary to prevent eviction from, or foreclosure on, a principal residence; (5) burial or funeral expenses; and (6) certain expenses for the repair of damage to the employee's principal residence. Expenses for the purchase of a boat or television would generally not qualify for a hardship distribution. A financial need may be immediate and heavy even if it was reasonably foreseeable or voluntarily incurred by the employee.
(Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iii))


A distribution is not considered necessary to satisfy an immediate and heavy financial need of an employee if the employee has other resources available to meet the need, including assets of the employee's spouse and minor children. Whether other resources are available is determined based on facts and circumstances. Thus, for example, a vacation home owned by the employee and the employee's spouse generally is considered a resource of the employee, while property held for the employee's child under an irrevocable trust or under the Uniform Gifts to Minors Act is not considered a resource of the employee. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iv)(B))


A distribution is deemed necessary to satisfy an immediate and heavy financial need of an employee if: (1) the employee has obtained all other currently available distributions and loans under the plan and all other plans maintained by the employer; and (2) the employee is prohibited, under the terms of the plan or an otherwise legally enforceable agreement, from making elective contributions and employee contributions to the plan and all other plans maintained by the employer for at least 6 months after receipt of the hardship distribution. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iv)(E))


A hardship distribution may not exceed the amount of the employee's need. However, the amount required to satisfy the financial need may include amounts necessary to pay any taxes or penalties that may result from the distribution.
(Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iv)(A))

 

[adjusterjack]

The plans are provided for in Internal Revenue Code (IRC) § 401(k). I mention this every time I see it (as Jack knows, as he's commented on it) as part of my effort to get the world to get the reference right.

I also keep a note on the difference between principle and principal.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Although I "liked" your post, my comment to it would be "meh"

Yes, well, I didn't think you'd care about it as much as I do.