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can we lose custody over this

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Steph_a_knee

Guest
What is the name of your state? missouri

my boyfriend has 2 kids with his ex. they have been divorced for a really long time and until last year she had custody of them. she wanted to move out of state for her job and he was awarded custody. since then the kids have lived with us. the kids got really involved with sports school sports and summer sports. along with scouts and stuff like that. we are constantly doing something. their son started wanting to participate in the activities that we had scheduled instead of going to visit with his mom on the weekends. the first couple of times he asked her about the ball games and she said that he could stay home and she came to watch him play. then she got upset and said that my boyfriend was denying her visits. the way that we see it we aren't denying her visits because its not really her time or his time that the boy is old enough that he thinks it is his time to schedule stuff that he wants to do and to spend time with his friends. she filed for a family access motion stating that we were denying her visits. in the mean time she moved back home. the judge told them that since she has returned home that they needed to file a modification. she filed one and is now asking for custody of the children to be returned to her. they listed her grounds on us denying her visits. my boyfriend admitted that he did not force their son to go during the family access hearing, but explained to the judge that it was the childs decision and that we both told him that he needed to go visit with his mother. he just didn't want to go. we can't force him. the judge hasn't made a ruling on the family access and they are still in the process for the modification.

my question is can the denied visits be held against us in court?

the modification also listed that my boyfriends mom and myself have been making derogatory (sp?) remarks and statements in front of the kids. i really care about the kids and it just aggravates me sometimes the stunts that their mom tries to pull. i admit that i raise my voice a little when their mom comes by to pick them up. but she is always trying to tell me how things are going to happen and that she will have her visitation with her son. its not my fault that he doesn't want to go. his dad tells me to put him in the other room and wait until his mom leaves. that way he doesn't have to deal with her if he doesn't want to.

and now we are getting in trouble because of their school records. when he got custody of them and enrolled them in school here we received a copy of their permanent records from their previous school. i have worked at the school as a teachers aide for several years and they know me and my boyfriend very well. its not my fault if they did not list her on the records as the mother. i did not ask them to list me anywhere on the paper. he did list me on the contact sheet in case of an emergency and that is all that we were aware of. she went to a meeting with their daughters teacher and the teacher had a form that she had to sign for attending the parent teacher conference. they had the fathers name and mother name listed and i was listed as the mother. not my fault. the teacher wrote her name in on the form. but when mom was leaving she asked for a copy of the form. we figure to show in court later. can we really get in trouble for something that the school has done on their own?
 


Ambr

Senior Member
He allowed the child to make the decision rather or not visitation occurred. How old is the child?

I think that the judge suggested the modification because she moved back and that the parenting plan needed to reflect the change in times. (For example, out of state visits would probably be over the summer and school vacations -- where if she is in the same area, it would offer every other weekend, things of that nature.)

As for rather or not she has a case.....how many visits where missed? I would think he would need to miss several visits to show a pattern of denied visitation.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Yeah, you guys could actually be in a world of hurt over all of this. It is NOT the child's decision whether to go to visit his mother. It IS his father's job to make him go, whether he wants to or not. That he tells you to put him in the other room tells me that he does not make an effort to enforce the visitation.

Your raising your voice could also be a problem. A lot depends on what you say, and how you say it. Quite frankly, if you can't keep your mouth shut in front of the child about his Mom - you don't belong in the same room when this is happening.

The school issue. Now c'mon. Surely Dad knows whose names are on those forms. And Mom's name should have been on there. I find it hard to believe that the school just happened to put your name in the mother's space.

Long and the short of it - yes, your boyfriend could lose custody over this.
 
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Steph_a_knee

Guest
his son is 10 years old. he is the one that didn't want to go. we didn't keep him. she put together a list for the judge over the number of visits that he missed. she listed 15 weekends. we really don't think it was that many but how do we prove that he went. its like our word against hers that he did go.

the only thing that we filled out for the school was an emergency contact sheet. my boyfriends works out of town and he listed me in the emergency contact information because i work in town and can get to the school faster. we did not tell them that i am the mother. the teacher said that the form was computer generated from the data base and that is the way it is was listed. we can't control what the school secretary does.

i might say some stuff that i shouldn't but i am really working on it and trying not to say anything. and i can't control his mom. the one thing that she listed in the papers was the time that she asked to pick him up and i had to tell her no. she was upset and started crying. she can cry at the drop of a hat and it is all for show. his mom told her as much. and said something about her not loving the kids. i don't think the kids heard her. but mom says that the kids did. she mentioned phone calls between mom and dad and that my boyfriend is cussing at her during the calls. everything seems to boil down to her word against his. how can we prove nothing happened.
 

Ambr

Senior Member
He had custody for the past year and the child missed 15 weekends? If you figure every other weekend visitation, there are only 24 weekends in the year and the child missed over half????????

I hope that dad is now allowing the visitations to take place. In fact, I hope that he is hand delievering the children to their mom with little bows on their heads because if he is still denying visitation he is going to be in a world of hurt.

The one thing that you have going for you is that she will need to prove that all of these things occurred. Do you know what evidence that she has to support her claims?
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
If your boyfriend was smart - he would have been documenting every time the kid went, and every time he didn't (and why). The fact that he only "thinks" 15 w/e's is more than were missed isn't going to help him at all.

10 is too young to make this decision. Whether he wants to go or not IT IS HIS FATHER'S JOB TO MAKE HIM GO. Period. End of story. It is not going to look good for him that he didn't.

This school thing makes no sense to me. I'm sorry. But I've just recently finished filling out paperwork for the kids' schools. And On the EMERGENCY cards it asks for the Father's contact info, the Mother's contact info and Alternate contacts. If I were Dad, I would be at that school tomorrow asking to see what he filled out - if he made a mistake and put your name in the mother's slot, it's not going to look good for him. AND IT SHOULD BE DAD WHO DOES THIS.

You should be doing more than trying to not say stuff about the child's Mom. You are an adult and you should be keeping your mouth shut if you can't say anything nice. Grandma should be keeping her mouth shut if she can't say something nice. Kids hear a hell of a lot more than we give them credit for. And you don't refute her claim that Dad was cussing at her on the phone - also not good.
 
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Steph_a_knee

Guest
she had this calander marked up and all it said was refused visitation and had a red line marked through the weekend. we could do the same thing with a calander and mark kids went for visit. how can that be used as documentation?

how can it look bad for him honoring the wishes of his son? the son didn't want to go. he doesn't understand why he can't participate in his ball games and scouting events. why he has to give up his life just because mom and dad got divorced and we don't think that he should. he is old enough now to decide what it is that he wants and we are honoring what he wants. when she filed the family access motion and the judge listened to everything and told them that he would make his ruling within 10 days and then suggested that they file a modification. she filed the modification before the ruling could come out. the judge hasn't ruled on the family access motion yet. he wasn't forcing the child to go on the visits then until he was served the modification papers and the lawyer told him to talk with the child and ask him to go for right now until we get everything straight in court. so yes, right now both children are going on the visits.

the lawyer thinks that it is all a joke. but we are wondering how you can prove that something happened. we can mark up a calander just like she did but it doesn't mean it happened or didn't happen. i could testify that the kids went. she could bring someone to testify that they didn't. everything is hearsay. could we really lose custody over hearsay?
 
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Steph_a_knee

Guest
she didn't say anything about taped phone calls. he gets upset with her sometimes and i have heard some cuss words but it is usually when she is arguing with him. wouldn't it look bad for both of them?
 

Ambr

Senior Member
Witnesses would be needed on both sides.

I really don't think that a judge would be happy with either side bringing every member of their family up to testify. You would need witnesses that aren't "involved". Maybe a neighbor that has seen her pick the children up for their visits? You mentioned his ball games, possibly the coaches or other parents that might have seen the children leave with the mother? Anyone besides family that can testify that the children have been with her.

I haven't figured out why you are the one refusing mom her visits, possibly dad is still working and not able to be there when mom picks kids up????? If you can't open the door and let the kids walk out of it and say the words "have a good visit" --- THEN YOU DON'T NEED TO BE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if you or dad or grandma are cursing and arguing with mom and the children hear it -- and the GAL and Judge will probably talk with the kids -- and the kids can repeat any conversation like that DAD IS FRIED!!!!

Has she ever contacted the police about her missed visits?
 
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haiku

Senior Member
As the custodial parent it is your husbands responsibility to foster the childs relationship with the NCP. A child is ENTITLED to the parenting of both parents.

A CHILD of 10 does not have any idea what is best for them. in most cases if it were left for a child to choose, Chuckie Cheese would be thier custodial parent. I am sure when your step son needs to go other places he doesn't "like" like the dentist you drag him kicking and screaming to the car, right? During his ex's time with HER son, it is up to her to see that he gets to his games or not. you are denying the ex's right to be a parent, by giving in to a spoiled childs whims, and the courts don't look to highly on that. And if it continues the custody will go to the parent who is more open to sharing the child.

As far as evidence goes, a judge can usually tell who is lying, so don't think you can "just make up a calendar"....

from now on know that the law as far as school forms goes, no matter where the other parent lives they MUST be listed on the school forms as the parent. Anyone else with permission to pick up must be listed AFTER that.
 

Ambr

Senior Member
YES he can lose custody over all of this.

I would do some serious talking with the attorney and try to find out what proof she has as far as documentation. If she can produce police reports - police officers - recorded phone calls - anything of that nature, she could have a pretty solid case.

BUT REMEMBER - DAD SHOULD BE THE ONE DOING ALL OF THIS. NOT YOU.
 
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Steph_a_knee

Guest
we have never been contacted by the police so i guess she hasn't ever talked with them. they would contact us if she went to them right? i mean she can't just go there and get a report without someone calling us or coming to the house.

thank you for all of the responses. i guess i got my answer to my question. but i could really use ideas on how we are suppose to prove that visits happened. i guarantee you that we will not talk to her on the phone anymore. she can just talk to our answering machine. that way she can't say anything in court.
 
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stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Steph_a_knee said:
she didn't say anything about taped phone calls. he gets upset with her sometimes and i have heard some cuss words but it is usually when she is arguing with him. wouldn't it look bad for both of them?
So if her lawyer calls you as a witness, you're going to have to testify that he cussed at her. And you're likely not going to get a chance to say "but she was arguing".

WHY would she tell you she has tapes? WHY would she tell you what her evidence is?
 

Ambr

Senior Member
From mom's side

If I were the mom and was being denied my visits.....

(1) I would have a witness with me each and every time I went to pick up the kids.

(2) I would have a tape recorder in my hand each and every time I went to pick up the kids. Let you, dad and grandma just run your mouths and catch every word to be heard later in court.

(3) I would immediately go to the police department and request that a report be made that I was denied my visitation with my children. I would encourage the police officer to return to the residence with me -- where I would attempt to pick up my children, yet again. (This would give me a VERY GOOD witness when it comes time for court - a police officer.)

(4) I would record each and every phone call that I have ever made to the dad or the children. If dad is cursing or if the children say, daddy said this or that or anything like that - it will be heard in court.

THAT IS HOW I WOULD GET THE PROOF THAT I NEEDED IF I WHERE THE MOM. You need to figure out how to disprove any and all of it. Same way - witness and documentation.

I take it that dad has never documented anything - bad mistake on his part - he needs to start documenting everything. I MEAN ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING!!!!!! Dad also needs to start being present during changes in custody. Right now, it sounds like you where the only person there and he will not be able to testify to anything. You are his case. No offense, but that doesn't seem to be a strong point.
 

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