Car dealer's service dept. ignoring problem

[chris660]

What is the name of your state? Delaware

I bought the car in Delaware, but I live in New Jersey. The dealership is located in Delaware, and it's the same dealership I use for service of my vehicle so I'm guessing DE law applies?

I have a 2003 Mazda protege. I bought it brand new back in November 2002. The express warranty has expired, but I have a 6yr/100,000 mile warranty through a 3rd party. Until recently, I have had no problems.

In December of 2006, I noticed a problem. The car's RPMs periodically jump from 2600 - 3200 RPMS while I am driving around 60mph, and the front end was vibrating. I took it to the dealership's maintenace dept in January to have it looked at. They said the water pump + tires + battery needed to be replaced. The pump was covered under warranty; I paid for the tires + battery.

About 3 weeks later, the same issues started happening again. Front vibration and RMPs jump up. I took it back in the beginning of March. This time they said the brake caliper seized, and that's what caused the vibration. They said they scanned the transmission for the RPM issue, but nothing showed up. I paid for new brakes, rotors, and calipers that time.

Now it's the end of March, and I'm still having the same RPM issue. I don't want to take it back there because it's not getting fixed, and it seems as if they'll make up another problem that I don't want to pay for.

Should I take it to another mechanic to see what they say? The only thing I'm scared of is that under my warranty terms, I must have everything fixed at the dealership. As soon as I have it repaired at another shop, it negates the warranty.

Also, do dealerships / mechanincs have any obligations to diagnose and fix a problem in a certain # of tries?

Thanks

 

[BL]

post your problem at http://www.batauto.com/Forums/ , get some technical feedback .

 

[chris660]

thanks! will do.

 

[outonbail]

What is the name of your state? Delaware

I bought the car in Delaware, but I live in New Jersey. The dealership is located in Delaware, and it's the same dealership I use for service of my vehicle so I'm guessing DE law applies?

I have a 2003 Mazda protege. I bought it brand new back in November 2002. The express warranty has expired, but I have a 6yr/100,000 mile warranty through a 3rd party. Until recently, I have had no problems.

In December of 2006, I noticed a problem. The car's RPMs periodically jump from 2600 - 3200 RPMS while I am driving around 60mph, and the front end was vibrating. I took it to the dealership's maintenace dept in January to have it looked at. They said the water pump + tires + battery needed to be replaced. The pump was covered under warranty; I paid for the tires + battery.

About 3 weeks later, the same issues started happening again. Front vibration and RMPs jump up. I took it back in the beginning of March. This time they said the brake caliper seized, and that's what caused the vibration. They said they scanned the transmission for the RPM issue, but nothing showed up. I paid for new brakes, rotors, and calipers that time.

Now it's the end of March, and I'm still having the same RPM issue. I don't want to take it back there because it's not getting fixed, and it seems as if they'll make up another problem that I don't want to pay for.

Should I take it to another mechanic to see what they say? The only thing I'm scared of is that under my warranty terms, I must have everything fixed at the dealership. As soon as I have it repaired at another shop, it negates the warranty.

Also, do dealerships / mechanincs have any obligations to diagnose and fix a problem in a certain # of tries?

Thanks

Just curious, does a "check enging" or "service soon" light come on when this problem occurs, or any other time while your driving?

 

[chris660]

no, the check engine light isn't on at any point

 

[BL]

no, the check engine light isn't on at any point

Try asking again , Anyone know ? @ batauto ..

 

[outonbail]

no, the check engine light isn't on at any point

The problem is that the vehicle's computer isn't detecting any trouble so the mechanic's must do something almost unheard of these days. They must drive the car and diagnose the problem without the help of any electronic gadgets.

There was once a time when this was the standard procedure for repairing vehicles. But most of the mechanics who were around in those days are either retired or dead. Today everything must be diagnosed by way of the vehicles computer and the dealer service department's engine/tranny electrical system analyzer.

I don't believe that going to another mechanic will do you much good, as the dealer probably has the most recent equipment/programs/updates and service bulletins which would apply to your vehicle. Unfortunately, without your vehicle's computer storing any fault codes, it becomes a guessing game with literally thousands of possibilities, from bad fuel to a faulty sensor or computer malfunction.
I have seen several bad water pumps cause a vibration in vehicles so I wouldn't doubt that yours was bad. So realize there is a difference between correctly diagnosing the problem, replacing wore out parts and just plain guessing by replacing things that didn't need replacing. So it may not be a case of the dealership fixing things that didn't need fixing. If they see the water pump is obviously bad and there are no codes stored in the computer, it is understandable that they believed the vibration was caused by the bad water pump. Even if the water pump wasn't the cause of the vibration, if it was bad, it needed replacing before it lead to bigger problems due to overheating. So you shouldn't feel like your being screwed because the water pump and other repairs haven't solved the RPM/vibration problem, as it doesn't mean that these repairs weren't necessary or that the dealership and/or their mechanics aren't competent.

Have you tried all the basics. Like changing all the fluids, filters, (especially the tranny fluid & filter) plugs & plug wires, vacuum lines and make sure the catalytic converter isn't clogged? Also check all the vehicle's charging system as a bad alternator can cause a fluctuation in voltage as well as the ground straps on the vehicle. Make sure all ground straps and connections are tight and still fastened.
I would also check the harmonic balancer and make sure it isn't failing or loosening on the crank since this will cause a vibration also.

I had a similar issue with a vehicle and it turned out to be the motor mounts. This sounds strange however, all the vehicle's throttle linkage and mechanical controls rely on the positioning of the motor in relation to the chassis, the bad motor mounts altered that positioning and it caused a miss and RPM issues.

I'm not suggesting that this is your problem, I only mention it to give you an idea of how many different things can affect the performance of the vehicle's drive train.

I've always had pretty good luck at the many forums available on the Internet. I would look for a repair forum which deals with primarily Mazda's. Chances are, someone else has experienced this problem and gone through all the same headaches your experiencing now.

Anyway, seeing how this forum is for legal advise and not auto repair, I'll get back to the question of the dealer's obligation to fix your car in so many tries.

As I've posted above, it isn't necessarily a matter of them being incompetent or charging you for unnecessary repairs and even if there was some lack of knowledge on their part, proving it would be very difficult. Since the first repair you mentioned (water pump etc.)apparently did fix the problem for a couple of weeks, who's to say the vibration your feeling now isn't a new problem and unrelated to what your original trouble was?

You would probably be better off going to the service manager and explaining all your troubles to him as you have here and perhaps he will attempt to find this problem for a discounted rate or hopefully for free. It can't hurt to try and suing the dealership for unnecessary repairs and will not get them interested in helping you resolve this car issue.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!