Carrying a handgun on K-12 school property

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

Interesting.

I am not sure I would want my kids enrolled in a school in Oregon.

I have to admit surprise that Oregon goes that far in allowing concealed weapons in comparison to a lot of states.

I do wonder how one would quantify the additional danger one's kids would be in from someone who has gone through the required training, registration with the authorities, and the associated costs to obtain such a license.

 

[Ohiogal]

I have to admit surprise that Oregon goes that far in allowing concealed weapons in comparison to a lot of states.

I do wonder how one would quantify the additional danger one's kids would be in from someone who has gone through the required training, registration with the authorities, and the associated costs to obtain such a license.

How many police officers have killed someone (not on the job but off)? How many military people have shot innocent people (not in war but elsewhere)? Yeah.... Training is important but that doesn't stop someone from "snapping" and killing someone with a gun. What if it were a student who had a license? What if someone undiagnosed mentally ill? (This is NOT a criticism on you but concerns).

 

[quincy]

You know, LeeHarveyBlotto, nothing I am reading about Oregon concealed carry laws are supporting your contention that guns are allowed in K-12 schools.

Those with conceal-carry licenses ARE permitted to conceal-carry on public postsecondary school campuses, although colleges can have internal policies that prohibit weapons in areas on campus. And cities have ordinances that allow for the prohibition of weapons (these ordinances are currently being challenged).

My research has been brief and may not be entirely up-to-date but here are some links that may be informative:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/06/gun_control_multnomah_county_o.htm

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/guns-on-campus-overview.aspx

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf

Is what I am finding wrong in some way?

 

[TigerD]

Personally, I would rather people defaulted to being armed as opposed to being unarmed. Incidents involving illegal firearm use by a concealed carry holder are extremely rare. That said, it may be the OP's right to carry when visiting the school, but it doesn't make it smart.

Additionally, the OP is a volunteer. I'm sure the school had some packet of information the volunteer had to sign and somewhere in that packet was a prohibition on staff carrying firearms at work. And volunteer staff are still staff.

TD

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

How many police officers have killed someone (not on the job but off)? How many military people have shot innocent people (not in war but elsewhere)? Yeah.... Training is important but that doesn't stop someone from "snapping" and killing someone with a gun. What if it were a student who had a license? What if someone undiagnosed mentally ill? (This is NOT a criticism on you but concerns).

Before I attempt an answer, I just wanted to point out that I'm not necessarily an advocate of the Oregon laws, I just wanted to make sure that the OP got the correct legal information.

As far as how many cops, veterans, and citizens have shot innocent people, I don't know the answer. Nor do I know the number of the same group who have saved innocent lives either by shooting the bad guy or simply by scaring them off with the thread of resistance. I have an idea of which group is larger.

Fortunately, common sense prevails in Oregon on the matter of age for a CCW license, it's 21.

 

[Ohiogal]

Before I attempt an answer, I just wanted to point out that I'm not necessarily an advocate of the Oregon laws, I just wanted to make sure that the OP got the correct legal information.

As far as how many cops, veterans, and citizens have shot innocent people, I don't know the answer. Nor do I know the number of the same group who have saved innocent lives either by shooting the bad guy or simply by scaring them off with the thread of resistance. I have an idea of which group is larger.

Fortunately, common sense prevails in Oregon on the matter of age for a CCW license, it's 21.

Let me be precise -- I was not picking a fight with you. I was just stating that just because someone is trained doesn't mean they should HAVE a gun. At least it is 21.

 

[tranquility]

As astonishing as it seems, one does not have a Constitutional right to drink, to smoke or to dance topless; bearing arms on the other hand...

But, as to the specifics of the law, see:
Willis v. Winters, 234 P.3d 141 (2010)

The right to possess a handgun does not flow from Oregon's concealed handgun licensing statutes; the right to carry a firearm is constitutional in origin. Or. Const., Art. I, � 27 ("The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power[.]"); see generally State v. Hirsch, 338 Or. 622, 114 P.3d 1104 (2005) (tracing the right to bear arms in Oregon).

Emphasis mine:

ORS 166.291 to 166.295, the statutes pertaining to concealed handgun licenses, do not affirmatively grant a licensee the right to carry a handgun. Rather, as ORS 166.250(1)(a) exemplifies, the legal effect of a concealed handgun license is to exempt the licensee from state laws that would otherwise prohibit concealment of that firearm. See, e.g., ORS 166.173(2)(c) (city or county ordinances to regulate, restrict, or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015 do not apply to "[a] person licensed to carry a concealed handgun"); ORS 166.260(1)(h) (ORS 166.250 does not apply to "[a] person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun"); ORS 166.370(3)(d) (prohibition on possession of firearm in public building in ORS 166.370(1) does not apply to "[a] person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun"); ORS 166.663(2)(g) (statutory prohibition on casting artificial light while in possession of certain weapons does not apply when "the person has been issued a license under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed weapon").

But, you can't SHOOT the firearm while at the school so the gun laws make us safe.
166.370 Possession of Firearm or Dangerous Weapon in Public Building or Court Facility;
Exceptions; Discharging Firearm at School.

(5)(a) Any person who knowingly, or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, discharges or
attempts to discharge a firearm at a place that the person knows is a school shall upon conviction be guilty of
a Class C felony.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this subsection does not apply to the discharge of a firearm:
(A) As part of a program approved by a school in the school by an individual who is participating in
the program;
(B) By a law enforcement officer acting in the officer�s official capacity; or
(C) By an employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of
employment, in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

Let me be precise -- I was not picking a fight with you. I was just stating that just because someone is trained doesn't mean they should HAVE a gun. At least it is 21.

Understood, thanks. As far as there being people who should not have guns, I'm in full agreement. The mother of the Sandy Hook shooter should never, ever have been in possession of guns with such an obviously sick human being under her roof.

 

[quincy]

As astonishing as it seems, one does not have a Constitutional right to drink, to smoke or to dance topless; bearing arms on the other hand...

As astonishing as it may seem, I actually know that.

But, as to the specifics of the law, see:
Willis v. Winters, 234 P.3d 141 (2010)

Emphasis mine:


But, you can't SHOOT the firearm while at the school so the gun laws make us safe.
166.370 Possession of Firearm or Dangerous Weapon in Public Building or Court Facility;
Exceptions; Discharging Firearm at School.

Yes. I read through what I found after a quick Google search much too quickly. I think I read with the fervent hope that the Oregon law really couldn't allow what it apparently allows.

And so, once again I will say, I am not sure I would want my own kids enrolled in any Oregon school.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

Yes. I read through what I found after a quick Google search much too quickly. I think I read with the fervent hope that the Oregon law really couldn't allow what it apparently allows.

And so, once again I will say, I am not sure I would want my own kids enrolled in any Oregon school.

The bizarre quality of these laws appears to work in both directions (unless it's just getting too late in the day for this old man). Am I correct that we've now established that I can be in a school building with my Baby Glock, a wacko barges in with a weapon, and legally I can't shoot him?

 

[tranquility]

As astonishing as it may seem, I actually know that.

Inconceivable! Let us hope Indigo Montoya would not respond similarly to the use of the word "right".

Oddly, it does not seem Oregon has a special problem because of its insane firearm laws and concealed carry in schools.
-http://www.stoptheshootings.org/
-http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2014/2014042.pdf (See table 4.2 & table 14.3)

Yes. I read through what I found after a quick Google search much too quickly. I think I read with the fervent hope that the Oregon law really couldn't allow what it apparently allows.

And so, once again I will say, I am not sure I would want my own kids enrolled in any Oregon school.

But the law says it is illegal to shoot a firearm in school. So, what's the problem? Unless you're worried that a ne'er-do-well will follow the law on possession but not on discharging.

 

[quincy]

The bizarre quality of these laws appears to work in both directions (unless it's just getting too late in the day for this old man). Am I correct that we've now established that I can be in a school building with my Baby Glock, a wacko barges in with a weapon, and legally I can't shoot him?

The law kind of reads that way, doesn't it? If you are with the USDA and a confused fox enters the school, though, you can legally shoot it. That is a bit of a relief.

 

[tranquility]

The law kind of reads that way, doesn't it? If you are with the USDA and a confused fox enters the school, though, you can legally shoot it. That is a bit of a relief.

WHAT!!!??? And bring down the wrath of many reasonable people as well as a number of groups evidencing nutbar factor 6? Shoot a kid and you'll get in less trouble.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/sierra-nevada-red-fox-09-24-2013.html

 

[quincy]

WHAT!!!??? And bring down the wrath of many reasonable people as well as a number of groups evidencing nutbar factor 6? Shoot a kid and you'll get in less trouble.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/sierra-nevada-red-fox-09-24-2013.html

Perhaps I should have said "rabid" fox.