Child support and public assistance

[killerzoey]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? HI

If I offer to take low amount of child support for a few years to offset STBX's travel expenses subsequent to my relocation with our children, what will happen if our kids and I end up requiring public assistance? I understand that the government will find and try go get money from a non-paying NCP. What will they do if they see a low amount ordered? Try to have it recalculated or something like that? I'm just trying to look ahead to any possible problems with what I may want to propose.

The idea of the move is to cut expenses and regroup financially by living with my family. Separated 7 months now, girls live with me and are solely supported by me this entire time. Divorce trial pending. STBX is being elusive with his income and I am nearly out of money supporting our girls, so I can't even afford to offer the typical "if I can move I'll pay for your travel" thing.

I would prefer to get child support and have us split the travel expenses (he has access to LOTS of money), but I don't have the time or money to prove he has this access. Mostly I don't have the time. Very nearly broke. I'm trying to avoid staying here in this state and becoming a welfare mom. I've posted about this general thing before- I'm far from my industry and the only worker in the family. Need to get back where I can support our kids. But depending on how much the legal fees end up being I may start out in debt even after relocating, so for all I know we may need some assistance anyway to get back on our feet without having to go bankrupt. Not forever but I can see perhaps temporarily. Hence the question. Thanks.

 

[Ohiogal]

The state wants to know that both parents are contributing to the support. If the court makes a child support order then that stands.

 

[killerzoey]

The state wants to know that both parents are contributing to the support. If the court makes a child support order then that stands.

I see. Thank you.

If I agree to a very low amount for say 2 years, once that is "up" what do I do? Will having the two-year thing stated in the final orders be enough reason to be allowed to file for modification of CS?

Of course, I assume he won't be any more forthcoming about his money then than he is now. Will I have to hire a lawyer and do the discovery process then? Does Legal Aid assist with stuff like this?

 

[goddessoflubboc]

In answer to your very first question, you cannot collect tanf and/or medicaid without it impacting your child support.

Hypothetically - say you agree to $100 monthly child support, and he pays it. Say you collect $150 month tanf.

You will receive your tanf $150 plus the first $50 ncp pays of cs. So you get $200 a month. The state however is in the hole $100 month (they give you $150 but only recoup $50). Say this goes on for 24 months.

If his irs refund is collected at some time in the future, no matter how much is owed to you, the first $2400 goes to pay back the state.

You can request a modification at any time.

 

[killerzoey]

In answer to your very first question, you cannot collect tanf and/or medicaid without it impacting your child support.

Hypothetically - say you agree to $100 monthly child support, and he pays it. Say you collect $150 month tanf.

You will receive your tanf $150 plus the first $50 ncp pays of cs. So you get $200 a month. The state however is in the hole $100 month (they give you $150 but only recoup $50). Say this goes on for 24 months.

If his irs refund is collected at some time in the future, no matter how much is owed to you, the first $2400 goes to pay back the state.

You can request a modification at any time.

I see. So if he ended up having to pay the hypothetical $2400 later, he would probably feel duped, like he ended up having to pay child support either way and be upset.

(Yes, that is how he feels about it)


I thought you needed some sort of change in circumstances to request a modification. I remember hearing something like someone's income has to have changed 10% or more, stuff like that.

 

[goddessoflubboc]

Duped? As in he expects to play no part in supporting the family he created? The state should pay his obligations?

My response about the modification was based on your proposal of setting the cs too low to begin with.

 

[killerzoey]

Duped? As in he expects to play no part in supporting the family he created? The state should pay his obligations?

My response about the modification was based on your proposal of setting the cs too low to begin with.

Well, I'm getting into assumptions here but so far his attitude has been I'm a big girl and make more than he does (which is actually not true at this point - he does not work but the family money he receives is more than I generate in income) so I'm on my own caring for them. I know something will be imputed to him but it won't be much since I can't afford to dig as much as is required, and so far has refuses to provide the information about the money he lives off of.

So he does not know what I am thinking of proposing, but based on his entitled mentality, he will probably feel duped if we need state aid and he gets the bill. Yup. Not sure if I care, but he tends to retaliate.

So about the modification, the basis would be that it is "too low"?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

One way to approximate his income is thru an income and expense sheet. For example, you come up with expenses that total $2000. You don't show any income. Guess what the judge will be asking? Exactly HOW do you pay for these expenses. If he says that he's charging it, then ask for the statements.

 

[killerzoey]

One way to approximate his income is thru an income and expense sheet. For example, you come up with expenses that total $2000. You don't show any income. Guess what the judge will be asking? Exactly HOW do you pay for these expenses. If he says that he's charging it, then ask for the statements.

Yeah, we've sort of been there/done that. He showed apprx. $3K in expenses and no debt. Showed very meager earnings and said the difference was being made up by his mom.

So then the mediator (ex fam. ct. judge) said "OK, Dad, based on that, your CS could be therefore calc'd at $900/month. And since you have access to money so freely (and tons of free time to work if you chose to), why don't you pay that amount again in spousal support so your wife does not have to move away". STBX immediately turned around and re-filed expenses showing he's very poor, steadily going into debt, and mentioned his mom has cut him off. He therefore proposed he pay $200 in CS and no SS. Oh - and fired the mediator. Thinks he took my side. It's really sad that he fails to see that the he could lose this ready access to the girls by not really getting that he has a responsibility here.

But he doesn't want to get roommates so he can help support the girls, even though he can't afford his overhead. He wants the house open for the girls (wants 50/50 custody or for me to leave them with him and move away). The mind reels.

He's really slippery and I don't think it would be easy to discover what is really going on. And I'm pretty much out of time. We're headed to trial soon.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Then ASK for the proof of debt. Credit card statements? Loans? You know what the rent and utilities were?

 

[killerzoey]

Then ASK for the proof of debt. Credit card statements? Loans? You know what the rent and utilities were?

Yeah. His expenses are pretty accurately depicted.

He could very well have the debt. The hard part would be proving the access he has to money when he wants to have it. And that would include when he wants to support his girls. I think a forensic accountant might be required to prove that part of things, so I just kind of gave up upon that realization. It took him two months to submit the first financials, too. I would imagine he will resist any attempt to gather information and as I said, I'm out of time/money.

 

[killerzoey]

A sort of related question:

This is a basic philosophical question regarding child support as it relates to custody and visitation.

In order for a judge to award shared physical custody (where kids live half time at one home and half time at another) does s/he have to be fairly sure both parties are in financially sustainable situations? If there is not even enough income between the parties to support one residence, is the judge apt to take that into consideration and lean more toward having the kids live one place and the other parent pay child support?

Thanks.

 

[Proserpina]

This is a basic philosophical question regarding child support as it relates to custody and visitation.

In order for a judge to award shared physical custody (where kids live half time at one home and half time at another) does s/he have to be fairly sure both parties are in financially sustainable situations? If there is not even enough income between the parties to support one residence, is the judge apt to take that into consideration and lean more toward having the kids live one place and the other parent pay child support?

Thanks.

Define "financially sustainable conditions".

 

[killerzoey]

Define "financially sustainable conditions".

Thanks for your reply.

I mean not running a huge deficit each month (income vs. expenses). As in something big would have to change in order for that household to be able to make ends meet.

I am running a deficit, partly due to no child support. He shows he is running a deficit, presumably to keep him from having to pay said child support.

So if he is taken on his word and the judge knows the reality of my situation, how in the heck could a judge consider doing 50/50 shared custody between our homes?

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks for your reply.

I mean not running a huge deficit each month (income vs. expenses). As in something big would have to change in order for that household to be able to make ends meet.

I am running a deficit, partly due to no child support. He shows he is running a deficit, presumably to keep him from having to pay said child support.

So if he is taken on his word and the judge knows the reality of my situation, how in the heck could a judge consider doing 50/50 shared custody between our homes?

Because money does not mean custody -- the person with the higher salary doesn't automatically win. What happens is whoever can provide the child(ren) with the basic necessities and who is in the best interest of the children to be custodians is what the court looks at. You could quit paying your credit card bills to make sure food was on the table. You could quit paying various things to make sure the children are taken care of. You could declare bankruptcy to lose some of the debt. There are options for each of you even if you are broke.