Child Support when potential NCP is disabled

[gryndor]

What is the name of your state?CA

Dad here again. I posted a previous thread about my teen lying to his mom but that’s a separate issue. Nonetheless, for continuity here is that thread: https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/16yo-lying-about-severity-of-a-fight-not-coming-home-mom-enabling.653515/page-3#post-3623968

Anyway, we went to court this morning and set a trial date for July 10. Judge asked mom if she would be filing for child support and she said probably not, to which he made it sound like that would be happening whether she specifically asked or not... depending on the outcome of the custody change.

I’ve been doing lots of online searching and I’ve found that while my income as a disabled vet is around $500 a month, and my wife’s income is about $60k a year, that new spouse income is not considered generally. However they list a few exceptions like if the NCP is purposely underemployed etc. But the term that’s sticking in my head under the exceptions is “if the NCP relies on new spouse’s income.” Which is the way it is in our household, unfortunately.

So neither my wife nor I, nor anyone we’ve reached out to has a solid answer on whether my wife’s income would be included in a potential child support calculation or not. Wife and I have a child together too, if that changes things at all.

Do any of you have experience with this?

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state?CA

Dad here again. I posted a previous thread about my teen lying to his mom but that’s a separate issue. Nonetheless, for continuity here is that thread: https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/16yo-lying-about-severity-of-a-fight-not-coming-home-mom-enabling.653515/page-3#post-3623968

Anyway, we went to court this morning and set a trial date for July 10. Judge asked mom if she would be filing for child support and she said probably not, to which he made it sound like that would be happening whether she specifically asked or not... depending on the outcome of the custody change.

I’ve been doing lots of online searching and I’ve found that while my income as a disabled vet is around $500 a month, and my wife’s income is about $60k a year, that new spouse income is not considered generally. However they list a few exceptions like if the NCP is purposely underemployed etc. But the term that’s sticking in my head under the exceptions is “if the NCP relies on new spouse’s income.” Which is the way it is in our household, unfortunately.

So neither my wife nor I, nor anyone we’ve reached out to has a solid answer on whether my wife’s income would be included in a potential child support calculation or not. Wife and I have a child together too, if that changes things at all.

Do any of you have experience with this?

Was your title to the thread a mistake or are you just a potential Dad to this child?

 

[gryndor]

Was your title to the thread a mistake or are you just a potential Dad to this child?

I am dad... mom and I are currently under a 50/50 custody order. But our now 16 year old is saying he wants more control over his own life and has bailed to mom’s house because she’ll let him do whatever with no supervision. She took me to court for full custody. Because he’s 16, I’m being told that his desires (though childish) will hold a lot of weight... so the potential of me going from a half-time parent to non-custodial is very possible, though it would break my heart.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Was your title to the thread a mistake or are you just a potential Dad to this child?

Per posting hx: https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/mississippi-child-support-law.654705/#post-3636333

Dad currently has a court order for 50/50, but has been having 0 parenting time, due to 16 year old's allegations that Dad physically abused him, to the point of mortal danger, for using pot.

Dad admits slapping him once.

By "disabled", Dad is referring to a back injury - crushed vertebrae, needs a cane to walk.

Sounds like "grass is greener syndrome".

 

[gryndor]

@not2cleverRed your memory of my situation is accurate but the link you posted is not me...

 

[gryndor]

Also, while the allegations of mortal danger and physical abuse were what prompted this custody change, my son has been over for dinner, visits with me and his little brother, and has been doing yard work at the house we’re slowly renovating like we were doing before all this went down. His position went from he is afraid of me to he wants control of his own life and will still come over “all the time”

 

[not2cleverRed]

@not2cleverRed your memory of my situation is accurate but the link you posted is not me...

Fixed it.

(Something's buggy about my clipboard.)

 

[not2cleverRed]

Also, while the allegations of mortal danger and physical abuse were what prompted this custody change, my son has been over for dinner, visits with me and his little brother, and has been doing yard work at the house we’re slowly renovating like we were doing before all this went down. His position went from he is afraid of me to he wants control of his own life and will still come over “all the time”

Has Mom modified the allegations in her filing accordingly?

She made very serious allegations of you abusing your son with n-o-t-h-i-n-g to back up her allegations. Well, there's the therapist. But she tried siccing CPS on you, and they didn't bite. Hospital records? Police reports?

 

[gryndor]

Has Mom modified the allegations in her filing accordingly?

She made very serious allegations of you abusing your son with n-o-t-h-i-n-g to back up her allegations. Well, there's the therapist. But she tried siccing CPS on you, and they didn't bite. Hospital records? Police reports?

Mom’s still under the impression I tried to beat him within an inch of his life. There are no police or hospital records, there are no photos, and there are no witnesses. In fact my wife was witness to the fact that all that happened was a slap to an out of control teen.

Mom tried to bring up a gotcha moment this morning saying that the fact that I apologized to our son was proof of her story. The judge shut her down because this wasn’t the moment to get into all the details. That’s pretty much her whole case as far as I can tell.

Meanwhile everything I’m getting from my son is that he needs to see this through because he can’t make his mom look stupid, and that all he wants is say over his own life and that after this is settled, our relationship will pretty much go back to the way it was before. He’s said this in person and through texts that I’ve saved for the hearing.

But all that aside, I’ve been told that 16year olds get a lot of say as to where they live. He chooses mom for primary sole custody. In the event that’s granted, I’m asking what the likelihood that my child support obligations will be calculated on my disability alone, or with my wife’s income?

 

[gryndor]

If it matters, in the three months since this happened, he’s continued to use drugs, his honor roll grades have turned into Fs with three weeks left of his Junior year, and he barely goes to school with five truancies, countless tardies and late marks.

On the drugs issue, like I said in the other thread, pot isn’t a big deal in the light of eternity, but it IS illegal until he’s 18, it is negatively effecting him in a huge way, and pot has a history of making worse or triggering schizophrenia and bipolar disorder when it’s present in the family history. Mom is medicated for bipolar disorder and her brother is medicated for schizophrenia. If he wants to make terrible decisions as an adult, there is little I can do, but I need to get him to 18 as healthy and prepared as I can.

Ultimately, mom is not parenting our son AT ALL and I fear the door on his future is going to close before he ever gets to turn 18.

 

[not2cleverRed]

You have previously been advised on the custody/parenting issue...

You are permanently disabled. That means that you are not voluntarily underemployed.

You are misreading the CA Family Code
4057.5 (a) (1) The income of the obligor parent’s subsequent spouse or nonmarital partner shall not be considered when determining or modifying child support, except in an extraordinary case where excluding that income would lead to extreme and severe hardship to any child subject to the child support award, in which case the court shall also consider whether including that income would lead to extreme and severe hardship to any child supported by the obligor or by the obligor’s subsequent spouse or nonmarital partner.

(2) The income of the obligee parent’s subsequent spouse or nonmarital partner shall not be considered when determining or modifying child support, except in an extraordinary case where excluding that income would lead to extreme and severe hardship to any child subject to the child support award, in which case the court shall also consider whether including that income would lead to extreme and severe hardship to any child supported by the obligee or by the obligee’s subsequent spouse or nonmarital partner.

(b) For purposes of this section, an extraordinary case may include a parent who voluntarily or intentionally quits work or reduces income, or who intentionally remains unemployed or underemployed and relies on a subsequent spouse’s income.

Going on a limb, but I suspect that you did not voluntarily disable yourself; your un/underemployment is involuntary. That "and" in bold means that if one is able to work, but is supported by their spouse instead (think stay at home parent), then the spouse's income can be considered in determining child support.

But hey, you're not fighting for the kid, he's working on flunking out of high school, so he'll quit before 18. So you won't have to pay child support for long.

 

[gryndor]

You have previously been advised on the custody/parenting issue...

You are permanently disabled. That means that you are not voluntarily underemployed.

Going on a limb, but I suspect that you did not voluntarily disable yourself; your un/underemployment is involuntary. That "and" in bold means that if one is able to work, but is supported by their spouse instead (think stay at home parent), then the spouse's income can be considered in determining child support.

But hey, you're not fighting for the kid, he's working on flunking out of high school, so he'll quit before 18. So you won't have to pay child support for long.

Whoa whoa, I’m absolutely fighting tooth and nail for my child. I am not dying quietly like my ex would want. I have all the love and hope in the universe for my off-track teen and I am busting my butt to try and get him back on a good path.

For the record, I wasn’t asking about the custody issue, I was asking about support. I was asked a bunch of questions revisiting the original issues.

Thank you for addressing my question about potential child support calculations.

I really hope you don’t sincerely think that I’m approaching this as flippantly as “kid is a flunky druggie so give up on him and he won’t be a burden for too long.” That really can’t be further from the truth.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I really hope you don’t sincerely think that I’m approaching this as flippantly as “kid is a flunky druggie so give up on him and he won’t be a burden for too long.” That really can’t be further from the truth.

No, I think you are overwhelmed, and convinced that you are facing insurmountable odds. You're not. But looking at a change of custody as an all but done deal is self-fulfilling prophesy.

The change of grades matter. That's black and white.
Mom's allegations are unsubstantiated.

Facts matter.
Your son wants "a say" and "control"? How about he tries earning it - it seems that more parenting time with Mom so far hasn't shown anything positive.

 

[gryndor]

I think I'm going to make as strong a case for full custody as I can manage... visitation with mom, of course, but she appears to be failing as an actual parent. Maybe that can at least be a starting point... though negotiating/bartering over my son feels horrible. What I want is the best outcome for my son, but we were handling this 50/50 thing well. Maybe without the pot incident, and with the sudden shift in behavior, attitude and "I'm 16 so I know everything and don't need parents..." and a complete lack of mom's backbone, that would have been a situation doomed to degrade. I wonder if the judge would honestly consider my full custody request, but I hope like crazy (and with your comments, it seems like it won't) that the judge doesn't grant mom's request.

In regards to teenage behavior... I am flabbergasted. My kids are taught to earn their way through everything. They were taught manners, to be polite, to be helpful, thoughtful people. They came by more intelligence and artistry from sources other than me, and I thought we were all doing a pretty a-ok job. Then suddenly my 16 year old knows everything, wants emancipation, does this "to get control" and then plans to put mom "in her place" after wrapping up with me. I have no idea what this is, and I don't remember doing this to my dad... he would have knocked me across the room if I dare tried.

 

[commentator]

Okay, put that out of your mind. It's a different world, and your thought pattern about how it would have played back years ago is not helpful. Just because your son says "F.... you!" to your face, when you would never have dared to do that to your father, that's not relevant. But 16 year olds have not changed. They still think they know a heck of a lot more than they do. Keep fighting, the judges and the court are not dumb, They've seen this before many times. Your son has his head firmly tucked away, but will later probably realize what he's doing wrong, (or not.) In any case, YOU stay where you are, in the standards you have for their behavior. You say, "my kids were taught!" okay, that's good. Don't change what you preach, what you uphold just because they act like they're trashing everything you have taught them.

This teaching is deep, and it's sometimes hidden, but one thing I have learned is that later, they will come to respect you if you are consistent, and if with what you have tried to teach them, you stick to it and you continue to uphold it. Don't dream wistfully about how it was back in the good old days, they were different and you are different and your son is different. But what it comes down to is that 16 is too darn young to have any sense, still. He maybe can control his mother, but he can't convince you he is ready to rule the world at 16. How we handle this may have changed since you were 16 but you need to be true to you and what you really believe to be your son's best interests. Good luck with this, hang in there.