City Government demanding social security number before they will turn on my water

[NateDogg]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

I am in the process of moving and went to turn on my water. I was told by the city office manager and the city attorney that they would not turn on my water unless I gave them my social security number. I asked what would happen if I did not have one and was told they would assume I was lying. I also asked for answers to the following questions via email:

1. Is disclosure of my social security number is mandatory or voluntary?
2. By what statutory or other authority is my social security number being solicited?
3. Should I elect to disclose my social security number to the City of Hutchinson or any business or other entity contained therein what uses will be made of it?

Although both persons did email me back, I did not receive a response by either person to these questions.

I was told by the city manager that for people who do not have social security numbers they do not require them to get one... but she did not believe that was the case with me.

Also, for the record, I have not been late on a payment for anything in over 10 years and if I did have a social security number my credit score would be in the 800's... I just am fearful of identity theft and do not give my social security number (assuming I have one) out to anyone.

My question is where do I file my lawsuit? It seems to me District Court would be the correct place since Kansas has KSA 75-3520 (b) (1) "No person, including an individual, firm, corporation, association, partnership, joint venture or other business entity, or any employee or agent therefor, shall solicit, require or use for commercial purposes an individual's social security number unless such number is necessary for such person's normal course of business and there is a specific use for such number for which no other identifying number may be used." but I am not sure how to structure my pleading.

Thank You!

 

[xylene]

Give them your SSN and stop being a crusader.

 

[TigerD]

My question is where do I file my lawsuit? It seems to me District Court would be the correct place since Kansas has KSA 75-3520 (b) (1) "No person, including an individual, firm, corporation, association, partnership, joint venture or other business entity, or any employee or agent therefor, shall solicit, require or use for commercial purposes an individual's social security number unless such number is necessary for such person's normal course of business and there is a specific use for such number for which no other identifying number may be used." but I am not sure how to structure my pleading.

Thank You!

Your SSN is necessary for the ordinary course of business in that the water department is extending you credit in the form of goods and services and a social security number is a requirement for credit reporting, credit checks, and collections both judicial and non-judicial.

TD

 

[Lee Bowen]

Give them your SSN and stop being a crusader.

Oh that's real helpful.

Hi Nate,

I just went through all this with a bank too, trying to open an account with them. They kept insisting that the government requires them to get it from me, or they will get in trouble and not be allowed to do business as a bank. I asked them what proof they had that any of their rules, or the government laws or mandates had any applicability to me? Then I showed them the bottom of my SS card which reads clearly..."Not for identification, for social security purposes only."

Yes, it's old and the original one I got 54 years ago. So then I asked them if they could read. Left without resolution or account opened because they are just like everyone else today....government said so, it must be true.

My advice is to look into drilling a water well if possible, that's what I did when the local water company pulled the same nonsense on me and demanded a SS number.

You might like to go back to the water company and ask them if they have any proof their rules apply to you. I can bet you money, they will say, You won't get any water if you don't comply. That is known as argumentum ad baculum...appeal to the stick. Force and coercion. I don't do business with people or corporations that try to force me into anything. All my business is done on a voluntary basis from both parties.

 

[FlyingRon]

That's the card not the number that's not for identification. Anyhow, the current cards don't say that. They took it off in 1972.

Practically only the feds are barred from using the SSN. The states and private companies can require it.

 

[LdiJ]

Oh that's real helpful.

Hi Nate,

I just went through all this with a bank too, trying to open an account with them. They kept insisting that the government requires them to get it from me, or they will get in trouble and not be allowed to do business as a bank. I asked them what proof they had that any of their rules, or the government laws or mandates had any applicability to me? Then I showed them the bottom of my SS card which reads clearly..."Not for identification, for social security purposes only."

Yes, it's old and the original one I got 54 years ago. So then I asked them if they could read. Left without resolution or account opened because they are just like everyone else today....government said so, it must be true.

My advice is to look into drilling a water well if possible, that's what I did when the local water company pulled the same nonsense on me and demanded a SS number.

You might like to go back to the water company and ask them if they have any proof their rules apply to you. I can bet you money, they will say, You won't get any water if you don't comply. That is known as argumentum ad baculum...appeal to the stick. Force and coercion. I don't do business with people or corporations that try to force me into anything. All my business is done on a voluntary basis from both parties.

The bank, at least, is absolutely correct. Your SSN is your Tax Identification Number and must be provided to anyone who could potentially provide you income. Since bank interest is income, you have to provide the bank your SSN.

 

[ajkroy]

You might be able to put up a hefty cash deposit in place of your SSN. I teach kids to work in physician offices and we would make you pay cash if you don't provide your SSN.

You see, it's all fine and dandy for you to claim you'd have a credit score over 800...but there's no way of proving that without the SSN. And there is no way to punish you without it if you don't pay your bills. People don't just take strangers' word for it anymore; cash is what talks if you don't put your SSN number up.

Maybe you should consider "LifeLock" if you're so paranoid?

 

[Lee Bowen]

That's the card not the number that's not for identification. Anyhow, the current cards don't say that. They took it off in 1972.

Practically only the feds are barred from using the SSN. The states and private companies can require it.

and I wonder why they did that?....Duh,.....The card and number are one and the same. You are splitting hairs and talking gibberish now. That is totally illogical. What if the card was blank white and read, not for I.D. purposes? Without the number on it, it's just a card, See?.....Anyone can require anything, it's up to you if you want to do business with them, right?

The bank, at least, is absolutely correct. Your SSN is your Tax Identification Number and must be provided to anyone who could potentially provide you income. Since bank interest is income, you have to provide the bank your SSN.

You don't have to do anything. People are so dumbed (see how I spelled that?) down these days. There are always options people.

The SS number when issued was not a tax i.d. number, at least not mine back then. It was a health insurance contract number. I entered into an agreement with the government to provide me with health insurance in my old age, so if I couldn't take care of myself at that age, I would have social security, get it? What it has morphed into, is criminal.....and people just keep walking around, sound asleep and allowing the government to do anything they like to them. Well, It's the law, we have to do it. That is nonsense. Like I wrote, you don't have to do anything. The law is an "opinion" backed by a gun, that's it, that's all. I don't do business with people that try to force me into anything with guns.

You might be able to put up a hefty cash deposit in place of your SSN. I teach kids to work in physician offices and we would make you pay cash if you don't provide your SSN.

You see, it's all fine and dandy for you to claim you'd have a credit score over 800...but there's no way of proving that without the SSN. And there is no way to punish you without it if you don't pay your bills. People don't just take strangers' word for it anymore; cash is what talks if you don't put your SSN number up.

Maybe you should consider "LifeLock" if you're so paranoid?

Now this is a very good, helpful post. Well done sir/ma'am !