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Civil case pro se - awarded attorney fees

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LdiJ

Senior Member
Or the attorney could genuinely believe he is right.
Believe the he should keep a 6k retainer when absolutely no legal work was done? I am guessing that its not because he believes that he is right. Even at $500.00 an hour that would be 12 billing hours and I bet he didn't send any itemized bills showing 12 billing hours worth of work.
 


Justimare

Member
Believe the he should keep a 6k retainer when absolutely no legal work was done? I am guessing that its not because he believes that he is right. Even at $500.00 an hour that would be 12 billing hours and I bet he didn't send any itemized bills showing 12 billing hours worth of work.
Your bet is assertive. He did not issue any bill, not even a draft of billing statement was sent to me for my review. He failed to show me how the money in retainer was alocated
 

TigerD

Senior Member
My main area of practice is tax law. I tell clients that want to fight it out with the IRS over "principle" that the fight is pointless. Tax disputes (other than criminal cases, of course) are simply about money. And paying me, say, $5,000 to win on a $2,000 proposed assessment is just not logical. When a matter simply involves money ditch the ego and emotion and decide what will benefit your bottom line the most. And sometimes that means simply conceding and paying what's at issue rather than expending the money to fight it. Even if you're sure you can win.
I was audited my first semester of law school. At the end of the audit, the IRS claimed the guy I hired to remove a stump was an employee. I had to pay about $300 in total. My legal bill was about $3,400. And I am a meticulous record keeper.

I advise people all the time that the fight isn't worth the result. I'm sure we all do. But some people put principle over money. And I love those clients.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
Believe the he should keep a 6k retainer when absolutely no legal work was done? I am guessing that its not because he believes that he is right. Even at $500.00 an hour that would be 12 billing hours and I bet he didn't send any itemized bills showing 12 billing hours worth of work.
I don't believe that absolutely no legal work was done. The client - the OP - doesn't have the requisite knowledge to support that assertion. She will probably need an expert to be able to argue that.

TD
 

Justimare

Member
I don't believe that absolutely no legal work was done. The client - the OP - doesn't have the requisite knowledge to support that assertion. She will probably need an expert to be able to argue that.

TD
The retainer was for $7,500. Evidence and testimony were provided from both parties for the arbitration purposes. After the arbitrtor considered all the records, I was awarded $6,000 out of the 7.5K. The arbitrator did indeed considered the attorneys time, skills and availability.
 

Justimare

Member
From what you have posted, you are being deposed as a witness; you are not personally being sued. Rather, your former lawyer is trying to get the award vacated based on the arbitrator's lack of professional conduct. If the award is vacated due to the arbitrator's unprofessional handling of the arbitration, there should be a rehearing with a new arbitrator. (Maybe they want to allege that the "inexperienced" arbitrator was unduly swayed by your feminine wiles.)

While I can understand your concern about when the deposition will be scheduled, none of know what the lawyer's up to.

They should try and take your deposition well before the trial - after all, in theory, as part of trial preparation they should want to have all depositions in hand to refer to for information. But maybe you're dealing with lifelong procrastinators. (That should reflect poorly on them, not you.)
Quite possibly, however the arbitrator ( a she) is a Florida certified mediator, admitted to the bar in year 1980 and clear disciplinary history. As a Florida Bar elected Arbitrator, I believe she has experience and handles herself in a professional matter. How could the other party argue that?.
 

Litigator22

Active Member
At one point, few years back, I was represented briefly by this lawyer. Life happened - threw me a curve ball and no longer needed his representation. This lawyer did not open a case in court, did not file any documents with court, did not draft any documents whatsoever; in other words the lawyer did not take any legal action whatsoever. Reason why I sought refund of money paid to him in advance, through the Florida Bar Fee Dispute Resolution Program.
I believe this is an ego matter as well. When I contacted the Florida Bar again, they said I could file a complaint against the lawyer. Havent done so yet, but considering doing so.
For now, This lawyer now hired an attorney in his lawsuit against me trying to vacate the award.
They want to depose me and that is why I asked this forum, how far in advance should I receive a notice for deposition?.
Time is running short as trial is set for September 4th and I have not received any notice yet.
Then your circumstances differ entirely from that which I mistakenly assumed. Which was that the $6K was awarded to you to compensate for attorney fees that you incurred in the course of litigation and taxed as costs to be paid by your opponent. Not that you were seeking a refund of money paid to your own lawyer. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Moving on - as to your filing a complaint against the lawyer. Why would you feel the need to do that inasmuch as you tell us that the lawyer has already filed a lawsuit challenging the arbitration award and seeking to set it aside?

Why can't you just respond to the complaint asking the same court to deny the challenge and confirm the award?

Regarding your question as to the advance time required for the taking of your deposition upon oral examination:

First of all such a deposition cannot taken within 30-days of the date of service of process upon the defendant unless permission is granted. (Rule 1.310 (a) of the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure) :

Secondly, the notice requirement is somewhat odd in that it allows the taking of the deposition of any person and speaks of giving reasonable notice to every other party in the action, but nothing is said with respect to giving notice to the deponent which can be "any person". Very strange. (If curious, see for yourself *)

Anyway in the case of your deposition it would be "reasonable" advanced notice, but not less than 30-days from date you were served with the complaint.

All that being said does not remove the obstacles you face in attempting to sustain the arbitration award without benefit of an experienced trial lawyer. Lawsuits can be made or lost in the discovery stage. An experienced trial lawyer can often get an unwitting party/deponent to unknowingly admit to conditions wholly favorable to his client. And damage control needs to be made on the spot - not at the time of trial when its too late.

Since you can't afford to pay an attorney representation what if any effort have you made to obtain pro bono representation? You might wish to start inquiring with the very organization that provided the arbitration.
__________

[*] " A party desiring to take the deposition of any person upon oral examination shall give reasonable notice in writing to every other party to the action. The notice shall state the time and place for taking the deposition and the name and address of each person to be examined, if known, and, if the name is not known, a general description sufficient to identify the person or the particular class or group to which the person belongs. If a subpoena duces tecum is to be served on the person to be examined, the designation of the materials to be produced under the subpoena shall be attached to or included in the notice." Rule 1.310 (b)(1) of the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure
 

Justimare

Member
Then your circumstances differ entirely from that which I mistakenly assumed. Which was that the $6K was awarded to you to compensate for attorney fees that you incurred in the course of litigation and taxed as costs to be paid by your opponent. Not that you were seeking a refund of money paid to your own lawyer. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Moving on - as to your filing a complaint against the lawyer. Why would you feel the need to do that inasmuch as you tell us that the lawyer has already filed a lawsuit challenging the arbitration award and seeking to set it aside?

Why can't you just respond to the complaint asking the same court to deny the challenge and confirm the award?

Regarding your question as to the advance time required for the taking of your deposition upon oral examination:

First of all such a deposition cannot taken within 30-days of the date of service of process upon the defendant unless permission is granted. (Rule 1.310 (a) of the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure) :

Secondly, the notice requirement is somewhat odd in that it allows the taking of the deposition of any person and speaks of giving reasonable notice to every other party in the action, but nothing is said with respect to giving notice to the deponent which can be "any person". Very strange. (If curious, see for yourself *)

Anyway in the case of your deposition it would be "reasonable" advanced notice, but not less than 30-days from date you were served with the complaint.

All that being said does not remove the obstacles you face in attempting to sustain the arbitration award without benefit of an experienced trial lawyer. Lawsuits can be made or lost in the discovery stage. An experienced trial lawyer can often get an unwitting party/deponent to unknowingly admit to conditions wholly favorable to his client. And damage control needs to be made on the spot - not at the time of trial when its too late.

Since you can't afford to pay an attorney representation what if any effort have you made to obtain pro bono representation? You might wish to start inquiring with the very organization that provided the arbitration.
__________

[*] " A party desiring to take the deposition of any person upon oral examination shall give reasonable notice in writing to every other party to the action. The notice shall state the time and place for taking the deposition and the name and address of each person to be examined, if known, and, if the name is not known, a general description sufficient to identify the person or the particular class or group to which the person belongs. If a subpoena duces tecum is to be served on the person to be examined, the designation of the materials to be produced under the subpoena shall be attached to or included in the notice." Rule 1.310 (b)(1) of the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure
I have already answered to his petition with 1. Motion to Dismiss for failure to state a claim and 2. Motion to confirm award. Hearing is set for September 4th.
I have inquired with legal aid, but so far there are no pro bono attorneys that will take this.
What good strategies can you suggest for me during deposition?.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
I was audited my first semester of law school. At the end of the audit, the IRS claimed the guy I hired to remove a stump was an employee. I had to pay about $300 in total. My legal bill was about $3,400. And I am a meticulous record keeper.
That might have been worth it if what the IRS sought initially was more than that $3,400 bill. If it was all about $300, though, I would have told you not to hire me. There is just no way given my hourly rate that you'd have come out ahead on that one.

I advise people all the time that the fight isn't worth the result. I'm sure we all do. But some people put principle over money. And I love those clients.


My experience is that clients who make an issue that is solely about money into some matter of principle (and what real principle is at stake they sometimes can't even articulate) are sometimes pain in the butt clients that I would rather not deal with. I take on such clients selectively.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
That might have been worth it if what the IRS sought initially was more than that $3,400 bill. If it was all about $300, though, I would have told you not to hire me. There is just no way given my hourly rate that you'd have come out ahead on that one.
Yeah, it was a general fishing expedition. My wife was on the Republican Central Committee and I was a convention delegate. Every one on the committee that year got audited. But I'm sure it was completely random. I don't begrudge the legal fees. I hired the best attorney I could afford and I consider the outcome a win. I had significant business losses that tax year. It could have gone very bad.

I agree completely about the PITA clients.

TD
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Quite possibly, however the arbitrator ( a she) is a Florida certified mediator, admitted to the bar in year 1980 and clear disciplinary history. As a Florida Bar elected Arbitrator, I believe she has experience and handles herself in a professional matter. How could the other party argue that?.
Beats me. But per your first post, the motion to vacate based on the arbiter "lacking experience" certainly sounds like your former lawyer begs to differ on her professional competence.

As an aside, look up "Guidelines for Giving Your Deposition." As far as strategies... 1) make sure you understand each question before answering, 2) answer truthfully and factually, limiting yourself to the scope of the question, no more, 3) don't guess, hypothesize, or speculate - "I don't know" and "I'm not sure" are valid answers if you aren't sure of the fact(s).
 

Justimare

Member
Just an update, the other party deposed me and it was a total 4 hour deposition divided in 2 days. The court reporters (hired by the opposing counsel) did not provide me with any information as when and how I can get the transcripts of the deposition. Is there a procedure I must follow in order to get those transcripts?. The Hearing is on Sept. 4th.
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
Just an update, the other party deposed me and it was a total 4 hour deposition divided in 2 days. The court reporters (hired by the opposing counsel) did not provide me with any information as when and how I can get the transcripts of the deposition. Is there a procedure I must follow in order to get those transcripts?. The Hearing is on Sept. 4th.
Unfortunately, I don't think that you have time to get them before the hearing. Due to labor day there are only three more business days before the 4th, and its really unlikely that you could get the deposition transcribed that quickly. It would also be very expensive to get a transcription of 4 hours worth of a deposition.
 

Justimare

Member
Unfortunately, I don't think that you have time to get them before the hearing. Due to labor day there are only three more business days before the 4th, and its really unlikely that you could get the deposition transcribed that quickly. It would also be very expensive to get a transcription of 4 hours worth of a deposition.
The deposition was taken this past Sunday. In that case, I will presume the opposing party will not have sufficient time to get the transcripts either.....
I am not supposed to receive some sort of notice / letter for me to have access to the transcripts?.... even if There is not enough time before the hearing?
 

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