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Collections calling relatives???

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Persephone

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? New York

I was wondering if collection agencies are allowed to contact family members more than once? My sister has been contacted numerous times (about 3x a week) by the same agency, trying to get in touch with me. I obviously haven't been returning their calls but can they legally continue to contact relatives in order to try and reach me? I thought this was illegal? What do I have to do to get them to stop bugging my sister? Do I have to call, write them a letter, and what exactly do I say? Thanks for any advice!!
 


Ladynred

Senior Member
They can contact 3rd parties ONE TIME for location information, after that they're crossing the line. Tell your sister to hang up on them, she is not obligated to talk to them and she needs to tell them to get lost.

Have they ever called YOU ? Have they ever sent you any letters ?? Is your current address on your credit reports ? If they already have your contact information, then they may not called 3rd parties for information they already have. If your current address is on your credit reports, and you can bet they've pulled yours, then they DO have your current location and have no business harrassing 3rd parties. You can write them a letter and tell them to cease and desist calling your family members and any other 3rd parties.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Ladynred said:
They can contact 3rd parties ONE TIME for location information, after that they're crossing the line.
Sorry, but that is NOT true!!

From the FDCPA:
§ 804. Acquisition of location information
Any debt collector communicating with any person other than the consumer for the purpose of acquiring location information about the consumer shall --
(3) not communicate with any such person more than once unless requested to do so by such person or unless the debt collector reasonably believes that the earlier response of such person is erroneous or incomplete and that such person now has correct or complete location information;

Tell your sister to hang up on them, she is not obligated to talk to them and she needs to tell them to get lost.
And doing so will likely give them an opportunity to recontact you.

If your current address is on your credit reports, and you can bet they've pulled yours, then they DO have your current location and have no business harrassing 3rd parties.
Sorry, but not true again. Having a debtors credit report does NOT show or assure of having correct contact information. There are lots of people whose reports do not provide ACCURATE location information.

You can write them a letter and tell them to cease and desist calling your family members and any other 3rd parties.
Absolutely 100% agree on that. After all, the debt collector is only trying to get location information on the debtor (as stated in the OP). Give them valid contact information and they will have no legally valid reason to contact others.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
There are lots of people whose reports do not provide ACCURATE location information.
No sh** Sherlock, why do you think I asked if the OP's reports contained their current location ?? I've never seen a credit report pulled that does NOT show the consumer's address, so if a collector has pulled your reports and your CORRECT address is on it, they damn well DO have that information.

According to the FTC, and the FDCPA, if the collector HAS location information for their target, they may NOT contact third parties:
Section 805(b) -- Communication with third parties. Unless the consumer consents, or a court order or section 804 permits, "or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy," a debt collector "may not communicate, in connection with the collection of any debt, with any person other than the consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector."

2. Location information. Although a debt collector's search for information concerning the consumer's location (provided in section 804) is expressly excepted from the ban on third party contacts, a debt collector may not call third parties under the pretense of gaining information already in his possession.
No 3rd party is obligated in any way to give out any information and they have every right to tell a collector to eat sh** and die and never call them again.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
LNR:
JETX is correct. Your cite of 805b is misunderstood. 805B references discussing the debt with third parties, which is, I think we all agree, quite inappropriate.

As for location information, if the debtor never answers the phone or returns a call there is no contact and therefore no positive location information. Since the law depends on what the debt collector reasonably believes, it stand to reason that the CA and the debt collector can and will continue to call. I would.

FOR THE OP:
What do I have to do to get them to stop bugging my sister?
You need to return calls, start answering your phone and pay your bills.

DC
 

JETX

Senior Member
Ladynred said:
No sh** Sherlock, why do you think I asked if the OP's reports contained their current location ?? I've never seen a credit report pulled that does NOT show the consumer's address, so if a collector has pulled your reports and your CORRECT address is on it, they damn well DO have that information.

According to the FTC, and the FDCPA, if the collector HAS location information for their target, they may NOT contact third parties:


No 3rd party is obligated in any way to give out any information and they have every right to tell a collector to eat sh** and die and never call them again.
Clearly, you don't like it when you are shown to be incorrect. This is NOT the first time you have gone 'ragged' when it happens.
As said before, you need to put aside your unbridled hatred of debt collectors when you post here... and hopefully only post ACCURATE information.

The FDCPA is clear in that the debt collector can make multiple contacts on neighbors, relatives, etc. when warranted. There is NOTHING in the OP to suggest that is not the case here.

The Bottom Line here is that the OP thought that multiple CONTACTS (nothing said about any real contact or location information was provided!!) was illegal. You agreed with her. That was clearly NOT correct as shown by the FDCPA text itself.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
My citation of Section 805(b) came straight out of the FTC Staff Commentary on the FDCPA. I didn't cull that from any far-reaching source. I think it's pretty clear in what is says. If the collector has location information already in it's possesion, then they have no reason to be harrassing 3rd parties. You can sit there say 'its not harrassement' but when someone keeps calling me for something that either has nothing to do with ME or prying for information that I do not, by any law, have to give them, then I, and most people, would consider that to be harrassment, and I have the right to STOP IT. If it takes an air horn in the phone repeatedly to get my point across, then that's what I'll do, but I will not put up with repeated intrusions from ANY source.

The FTC Staff Commentary also says:
Section 804 requires a debt collector, when communicating with third parties for the purpose of acquiring information about the consumer's location to (1) "identify himself, state that he is confirming or correcting location information concerning the consumer, and, only if expressly requested, identify his employer"; (2) not refer to the debt, (3) usually make only a single contact with each third party, (4) not communicate by post card, (5) not indicate the collection nature of his business purpose in any written communication, and (6) limit communications to the consumer's attorney, where the collector knows of the attorney, unless the attorney fails to respond to the communication.
The Commentary also says this of Section 806:
Section 806 prohibits a debt collector from any conduct that would "Harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt." It provides six examples of harassment or abuse.

2. Unnecessary calls to third parties. A debt collector may not leave telephone messages with neighbors when the debt collector knows the consumer's name and telephone number and could have reached him directly.
Are we seeing the pattern here ?? I find it extremely hard to believe that with all of the databases that these CA's subscribe to for skip-tracing purposes that they don't already have the location information they pretend to be digging for. No one is ever completely 'off the gird' any more.

Yes, I know, Section804 says 'usually'.. well, obviously the collector has called the sister more than once and DID speak to her, but again, the sister is not in any way obligated to even talk to them, let alone divulge any information. The sister has a right to tell these people to get stuffed.. and she should do so. The collector should have brains enough to recognize that they're NOT going to succeed and move on. But then, we all know about the caliber of the people working these call centers.. the prevalence of HS dropouts and even deadbeats themselves, even criminals. so intelligence certainly isn't a big factor. :rolleyes:

As for going 'ragged' I woke up this morning with a huge MIGRAINE and I was certainly not in a very good mood.. too bad. The whole world doesn't go thru life with an idiotic smile and a 'lay down and run over me' demeanor.

Oh yes, I despise collectors, the ones that cause all the trouble and complaints should be strung up by their thumbs or tied to an ant hill. They have little regard for the law and it's getting WORSE. The complaints to the FTC are piling up, increasing daily, and I have no doubt that the new bankrutpcy law has emboldened the worst of the collection lot to behave even more reprehensibly than before. You have to draw the line somewhere, people are not cattle up for slaughter and they do not have to 'roll over' for some dipstick on a powertrip working in a collection call center who thinks he can get away with anything he/she wants to to make their quotas.

The OP needs to find her own way of dealing with the situation.. and so does her sister.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Ladynred said:
If the collector has location information already in it's possesion, then they have no reason to be harrassing 3rd parties.
Absolutely!!! And I agree 110%!!
However, WHERE in the OP does it say ANYTHING collector having "location information"??
Simple answer... it doesn't!! In fact, the OP strongly suggests that they don't have that information and that is why they are allowed to continue contacting the sister.
Now, if the OP had said (or even suggested) that the collector had the debtors contact or location information, your post would have been correct. The issue here is your ASSUMPTION that they had it.

You can sit there say 'its not harrassement' but when someone keeps calling me for something that either has nothing to do with ME or prying for information that I do not, by any law, have to give them, then I, and most people, would consider that to be harrassment, and I have the right to STOP IT.
I would agree with you that if a collector contact "about 3x a week", that COULD be considered harassment... but only a court can determine that.

If it takes an air horn in the phone repeatedly to get my point across, then that's what I'll do, but I will not put up with repeated intrusions from ANY source.
Good for you. :D

Oh yes, I despise collectors, the ones that cause all the trouble and complaints should be strung up by their thumbs or tied to an ant hill. They have little regard for the law and it's getting WORSE.
And I agree 110% with you. 3rd party debt collectors who violate the law are low-life, scum-sucking pond vultures!!!
But that doesn't make EVERY debt collector a violator!!
Nor does it support giving incorrect LEGAL advice on this forum.
 
JETX said:
3rd party debt collectors who violate the law are low-life, scum-sucking pond vultures!!!
I agree, although I also find this description true of someone who doesn't just clear up business with a debt collector and move on, instead of refusing to answer and letting their relatives take the constant bother of the calls.

And to the OP: Sheesh... just answer the phone, make your arrangements, and get on with life. If I understand what debtcollector' posted, as soon as they have established contact with you, the annoying calls to your relatives will stop.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
Dougthegreat said:
I agree, although I also find this description true of someone who doesn't just clear up business with a debt collector and move on, instead of refusing to answer and letting their relatives take the constant bother of the calls.

And to the OP: Sheesh... just answer the phone, make your arrangements, and get on with life. If I understand what debtcollector' posted, as soon as they have established contact with you, the annoying calls to your relatives will stop.
Yup. Once contact is made -- the location information is verified. No need to call anyone else.

DC
 

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