Computer Information as Evidense

[magtwo]

Computer Information as Evidence

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah

I am the stepmother, but I am helping my husband to prepare for his upcoming hearing. He is requesting temporary custody and a permanent custody modification order. Mother is undergoing a parental fitness evaluation ordered by the court.

One of the standing COs in place orders that both parties are restrained from engaging or involving the children in the divorce/courtroom issues.

During the minor child's parenting time over the month of July, a trace program installed on her computer in our home revealed that she has access to and opens her mother's emails which include dozens of email from the Special Master with specific court orders, emails regarding upcoming court dates etc.

My husband always had a suspicion that his daughter knew more than she should, but he never said anything as a practice. He always believed it was too much and she should not be burdened with the knowledge that her parents are fighting for her and she might be taken away from her mother. She has lived full time with her mother all her life. She is now 13.

However, now that we have the knowledge that his duaghter is fully aware of the situation, what are my husband's legal options (or obligations)? There is a hearing scheduled in the next 30 days to review the OSC and perhaps change custody at that time.

Should my husband print these emails and copy screen snapshots for the attorney? Will the judge look at that as evidence proving the mother's involvement of the kids?

Thank you for your help...

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah

I am the stepmother, but I am helping my husband to prepare for his upcoming hearing. He is requesting temporary custody and a permanent custody modification order. Mother is undergoing a parental fitness evaluation ordered by the court.

One of the standing COs in place orders that both parties are restrained from engaging or involving the children in the divorce/courtroom issues.

During the minor child's parenting time over the month of July, a trace program installed on her computer in our home revealed that she has access to and opens her mother's emails which include dozens of email from the Special Master with specific court orders, emails regarding upcoming court dates etc.

My husband always had a suspicion that his daughter knew more than she should, but he never said anything as a practice. He always believed it was too much and she should not be burdened with the knowledge that her parents are fighting for her and she might be taken away from her mother. She has lived full time with her mother all her life. She is now 13.

However, now that we have the knowledge that his duaghter is fully aware of the situation, what are my husband's legal options (or obligations)? There is a hearing scheduled in the next 30 days to review the OSC and perhaps change custody at that time.

Should my husband print these emails and copy screen snapshots for the attorney? Will the judge look at that as evidence proving the mother's involvement of the kids?

Thank you for your help...

So his daughter is opening her mother's email and somehow that is all mom's fault? Why doesn't YOUR husband become a parent and ground his daughter for snooping? Oh yeah because this is just a way to get at mom and NOT about teaching his daughter that she needs to mind her own business.

 

[Zigner]

Exactly - dad allows kiddo to commit immoral and, quite likely, illegal acts while in his custody, then wants to use it against mom? wow.

 

[magtwo]

Normally, I think I would agree with that assessment. The home lime that his daughter has with her mom is very dysfunctional. The parental fitness evaluation was ordered several months ago by the Special Master as a result of the mother's attempts to interfere with telephone parenting and visitation parenting. It's a long story.

Suffice it to say, the reason his daughter is looking at this inappropriate information is that her mother has given her the password and personally shared this kind of information verbally with her in the past.

My husband is more concerned at this point of further "traumatizing" his daughter by confronting her about it. She is pretty fragile, and being torn apart by the whole custody issue. She is not looking for this information out of sheer curiosity; she operates under the principle that she needs to help her mother in everything. Her mother presents herself as a victim in most things.

On the one hand, it would be entirely appropriate for my husband to walk into the Special Master's office and present them with all this proof that his daughter is being sucked into the middle of this. On the other, we do not want her to feel any more responsible for what could happen to her mother.

The likelihood is very high that once the parental fitness of the mother has been reviewed by the judge, the daughter will be immediately ordered to be placed with her father pending a full custody evaluation. That will be devastating enough without the continued actions of her mother revealing adult issues that she should be handling herself.

I don't know how well that addressed your questions/concerns...

 

[Zigner]

Ok, let me spell it out.

The FATHER of the child has allowed this behavior in his house. Instead of teaching his daughter about inappropriate computer usage, he wants to use it as a weapon against the MOTHER.


Poor kid.

 

[magtwo]

I got your point.

 

[Ohiogal]

Normally, I think I would agree with that assessment. The home lime that his daughter has with her mom is very dysfunctional. The parental fitness evaluation was ordered several months ago by the Special Master as a result of the mother's attempts to interfere with telephone parenting and visitation parenting. It's a long story.

Suffice it to say, the reason his daughter is looking at this inappropriate information is that her mother has given her the password and personally shared this kind of information verbally with her in the past.

And daughter has NO RESPONSIBILITY in knowing this is wrong? And dad takes no responsibility for quite frankly allowing daughter to access this in HIS house? Oh okay. Mom is not violating the court order if daughter is accessing it.

My husband is more concerned at this point of further "traumatizing" his daughter by confronting her about it. She is pretty fragile, and being torn apart by the whole custody issue. She is not looking for this information out of sheer curiosity; she operates under the principle that she needs to help her mother in everything. Her mother presents herself as a victim in most things.

Oh so dad does NOT want to be a parent. I get it. Correcting his child's inappropriate behavior will traumatize the child. I see danger signs with that. This child NEEDS to be corrected and needs to be disciplined for inappropriate behavior.

On the one hand, it would be entirely appropriate for my husband to walk into the Special Master's office and present them with all this proof that his daughter is being sucked into the middle of this. On the other, we do not want her to feel any more responsible for what could happen to her mother.

She is CHOOSING to read the emails. She is choosing to access her mother's account. And DAD is allowing HER to do so under HIS roof. Which means dad is to blame for the child being in the middle as well. he is allowing the suckage to happen.

The likelihood is very high that once the parental fitness of the mother has been reviewed by the judge, the daughter will be immediately ordered to be placed with her father pending a full custody evaluation. That will be devastating enough without the continued actions of her mother revealing adult issues that she should be handling herself.

Dad is participating in allowing daughter to have adult issues being revealed. DAD needs to step up and be a PARENT.

I don't know how well that addressed your questions/concerns...

it didn't. It just basically stated dad will use any excuse to NOT parent his child and protect her from her own actions and teach her right from wrong.

 

[Ohiogal]

Ok, let me spell it out.

The FATHER of the child has allowed this behavior in his house. Instead of teaching his daughter about inappropriate computer usage, he wants to use it as a weapon against the MOTHER.


Poor kid.

Or I could have just said this.

 

[magtwo]

Agreed. But his daughter already went back to her mother's home. If her father communicates this knowledge to the mother, not only will the daughter not be corrected, the mother will probably be more angry at the father for knowing about her email.

It's all true. He did allow it. He has been too permissive with her. He has treated her with big time kid gloves. No doubt about that. This is somewhat off-topic, but I hope you understand that, due to spefici actions of the mother, the father has been made very "gun-shy" about correcting, discipling, counseling etc. That is an issue that he needs to deal with and make adjustments to his father-daughter dynamics. That is a weakness of his.

But from a legal standpoint, just the knowing that mother gave daughter access to her personal emails dealing with the custody case, regardless of where she was viewing them (she was doing this at her mother's house first, and with more frequency) damns the mother as well.

Going forward, know that he knows, her father will have this blocked, will speak to her about it (but not for a couple weeks, when she is in his home) and demonstrate the parental responsibility he needs to.

But what about the repercussions for the mother? Is this something the father should even pursue?

 

[Isis1]

Agreed. But his daughter already went back to her mother's home. If her father communicates this knowledge to the mother, not only will the daughter not be corrected, the mother will probably be more angry at the father for knowing about her email.

It's all true. He did allow it. He has been too permissive with her. He has treated her with big time kid gloves. No doubt about that. This is somewhat off-topic, but I hope you understand that, due to spefici actions of the mother, the father has been made very "gun-shy" about correcting, discipling, counseling etc. That is an issue that he needs to deal with and make adjustments to his father-daughter dynamics. That is a weakness of his.

But from a legal standpoint, just the knowing that mother gave daughter access to her personal emails dealing with the custody case, regardless of where she was viewing them (she was doing this at her mother's house first, and with more frequency) damns the mother as well.

Going forward, know that he knows, her father will have this blocked, will speak to her about it (but not for a couple weeks, when she is in his home) and demonstrate the parental responsibility he needs to.

But what about the repercussions for the mother? Is this something the father should even pursue?

dad needs to correct what is in his control. THAT is what dad can do. then dad can let mom know he caught their daughter snooping in her business and has been punished accordingly. then dad can let mom know that it would be in their daughter's best interest if she would update her access information so daughter cannot access it.

dad and mom need to work on disciplining the child together. not look for blame games.

what's stopping dad from calling daughter and lecturing her over the phone. letting mom in on the punishment?

 

[CJane]

I could see some pretty serious repercussions for the mother if she was sending these emails to the daughter's email account.

I can even see Mom being told that allowing daughter access to the same email account that the court junk is sent to is perhaps not the best idea in the world.

But I don't see THIS being the smoking gun that Dad is apparently looking for.

WHY is there a fitness eval taking place? Yes, it matters - because the reasoning behind THAT might make the advice regarding THIS slightly different.

Right now, since you've provided no deatils otherwise, all we KNOW is that YOU question Mom's fitness, the child still resides with Mom (and so was no removed from the home as an emergency action), child has access to Mom's email (though we don't know that Mom knows that), and child accessed that email at Dad's house.

Since child cannot testify, how does Dad propose to combat MOM saying that HE hacked into her account in an effort to 'frame' her - since she 'paints herself as a victim' frequently?

 

[LdiJ]

Agreed. But his daughter already went back to her mother's home. If her father communicates this knowledge to the mother, not only will the daughter not be corrected, the mother will probably be more angry at the father for knowing about her email.

It's all true. He did allow it. He has been too permissive with her. He has treated her with big time kid gloves. No doubt about that. This is somewhat off-topic, but I hope you understand that, due to spefici actions of the mother, the father has been made very "gun-shy" about correcting, discipling, counseling etc. That is an issue that he needs to deal with and make adjustments to his father-daughter dynamics. That is a weakness of his.

But from a legal standpoint, just the knowing that mother gave daughter access to her personal emails dealing with the custody case, regardless of where she was viewing them (she was doing this at her mother's house first, and with more frequency) damns the mother as well.

Going forward, know that he knows, her father will have this blocked, will speak to her about it (but not for a couple weeks, when she is in his home) and demonstrate the parental responsibility he needs to.

But what about the repercussions for the mother? Is this something the father should even pursue?

Please tell me what proof you have that mom "gave" access to her daughter? Please prove that his daughter did not figure out/hack her mother's password.

Come on here...what are the odds that any parent would give their child free access to ALL of the parent's email correspondence? The odds are far greater that the child is actually snooping.

 

[Isis1]

Please tell me what proof you have that mom "gave" access to her daughter? Please prove that his daughter did not figure out/hack her mother's password.

Come on here...what are the odds that any parent would give their child free access to ALL of the parent's email correspondence? The odds are far greater that the child is actually snooping.

i cannot even count how many times i have caught my kids doing something they KNOW they aren't supposed to be doing, only to have them say "but dad lets me". so i pick up the phone and call dad. put him on speaker. ask him if he does in fact allow the children to do such and such. i have yet to hear that man say "yes".

kids thought they had a way out of getting punished. they don't use that excuse anymore.

 

[Ohiogal]

Please tell me what proof you have that mom "gave" access to her daughter? Please prove that his daughter did not figure out/hack her mother's password.

Come on here...what are the odds that any parent would give their child free access to ALL of the parent's email correspondence? The odds are far greater that the child is actually snooping.

Yes but if the child is actually snooping then mom would be innocent and this OP could NEVER believe that. Mom is the ENEMY!