Could person be successfully sued for Character Defamation

[longdrive]

State = Minnesota

"This Person" was at a store attempting to get a refund for a product. This person spoke to the customer service manager and was getting nowhere with her and was finally given a customer relations number as she the manager no longer wanted to deal with this person. Out of frustration, this person made the following statement to the manager as they were leaving the store but said it out loud and while looking at the manager, "You are such a f**** whore."

After reviewing as much info as I could find on Defamation, it looks like the "Opinion Defense" could not be used for this person if a defmation suit came down due to the person knowing the statement was in all probability untrue and was made in haste. Is this true and regardless what are the chances a defamation suit could be won?

Thanks!What is the name of your state?

 

[cbg]

The chances that a defamation suit could be won are exactly zero. No false statement was made to a third person and no one has suffered any damages.

 

[longdrive]

The chances that a defamation suit could be won are exactly zero. No false statement was made to a third person and no one has suffered any damages.

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated! A follow-up question though. If the manager's peers and other customer's of the store were all around, could damages be presumed? As in, what if the other people start to think or question her as to why this person called her a "whore" Also, it was my understanding a 3rd party doesn't need to be involved at all as far as being told directly the item causing the alleged defamation? For example, this person said this statement to the manager with other's around her. I thought that was technically all there needed to be to be classified as defamation?

 

[HomeGuru]

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated! A follow-up question though. If the manager's peers and other customer's of the store were all around, could damages be presumed? As in, what if the other people start to think or question her as to why this person called her a "whore" Also, it was my understanding a 3rd party doesn't need to be involved at all as far as being told directly the item causing the alleged defamation? For example, this person said this statement to the manager with other's around her. I thought that was technically all there needed to be to be classified as defamation?

**A: you thought wrong.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

**A: you thought wrong.

There's been a lot of that going around lately.

 

[HomeGuru]

There's been a lot of that going around lately.

**A: yes, and you did hear of the lawsuit that was successfully won by Mickey Mouse for character defamation.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

**A: yes, and you did hear of the lawsuit that was successfully won by Mickey Mouse for character defamation.

I thought that was character DEFLATION during the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade

 

[Quaere]

Longdrive: The manager was not defamed. When you are trying to figure out if a statement qualifies as an "opinion" or a "defamatory fact", ask yourself if a reasonable witness to the communication would have been inclined to believe the speaker was literally claiming that the manager IS a whore.

In the context of an angry person shouting, "You are just a whore" at another, no reasonable witness would have believed the speaker had knowledge that the manager works as a "whore".

If the speaker had said, "You are just a whore. I've seen you almost every night, standing on the corner of Sleaze and Bag, getting in the car with one man after another. THAT, assuming it's not true, would be defamation.

You are correct that defamatory statements do not have to be directed to a third party. It merely needs to be "communicated" to a third party, which means there was a third party who heard or read the statement.

You are also correct that in some cases, damages are presumed. In a different context, someone stating, "You are a whore", could qualify as a defamatory statement and if it did, damages would be presumed.

You did a good job of researching before you came here to ask a question. Don't let the rude posts bother you.

 

[longdrive]

Longdrive: The manager was not defamed. When you are trying to figure out if a statement qualifies as an “opinion” or a “defamatory fact”, ask yourself if a reasonable witness to the communication would have been inclined to believe the speaker was literally claiming that the manager IS a whore.

In the context of an angry person shouting, “You are just a whore” at another, no reasonable witness would have believed the speaker had knowledge that the manager works as a “whore”.

If the speaker had said, “You are just a whore. I’ve see you almost every night, standing on the corner of Sleaze and Bag, getting in the car with one man after another.” THAT, assuming it’s not true, would be defamation.

You are correct that defamatory statements do not have to be directed to a third party. It merely needs to be “communicated” to a third party, which means there was a third party who heard or read the statement.

You are also correct that in some cases, damages are presumed. In a different context, someone stating, “You are a whore”, could qualify as a defamatory statement and if it did, damages would be presumed.

You did a good job of researching before you came here to ask a question. Don't let the rude posts bother you.

Quaere, I really appreciate your serious response and thank you for the information. I guess what I was caught up in was the fact that the statement was made in public to a person working in a store. I didn't realize if the statement was made in the context it was, that it couldn't reasonably be taken seriously.

So, does this mean that in the majority of cases, if something is said as an insult or in an argument such as "You are a whore" (without any specific detail) that it falls under the definition of opinion?

Thanks again!

 

[Quaere]

You are welcome! You seemed to have done a fair amount of work on your own.

You've got the basic idea. Who listens to a person who makes a wild accusation out of nowhere and gives us no reason to believe she was serious?

Many factors are considered to determine if a statement qualifies as a defamatory statement of fact.

Sometimes you can get away with a blatant statement like, “You are a whore” while you may not be able to get away with a more subtle statement such as, “Aren’t you the girl with the red hot pants that I saw on the corner of Sleaze and Bag on Saturday night?”

No reasonable witness would have walked away from the store incident believing someone had just revealed that the manager works as a hooker. Thus, there is no reason to believe the manager’s reputation was harmed by the incident.

It’s not about the words that were spoken, it’s about the impression that was left on a witness. You can defame someone by implication alone. For example, “I’m not making any accusations or anything, and this is only my opinion, but Susie better hope her new boyfriend does not decide to do a criminal background check on her.”

The above statement would cause a reasonable witness to believe I have knowledge that Susie has a criminal record. The fact that I included some disclaimers means nothing in this context.

People often find it difficult to grasp the difference between a defamatory statement and an opinion. To make matters worse, some statements qualify as part opinion and part defamatory statement.

For example: “I once saw that insane woman steal a towel from our health club.” Assuming there is no other reason to believe the woman is insane, that part of the comment would be opinion. If the woman never stole a towel, the speaker’s claim that she witnessed such an incident, would be defamatory.

 

[longdrive]

You are welcome! You seemed to have done a fair amount of work on your own.

You've got the basic idea. Who listens to a person who makes a wild accusation out of nowhere and gives us no reason to believe she was serious?

Many factors are considered to determine if a statement qualifies as a defamatory statement of fact.

Sometimes you can get away with a blatant statement like, “You are a whore” while you may not be able to get away with a more subtle statement such as, “Aren’t you the girl with the red hot pants that I saw on the corner of Sleaze and Bag on Saturday night?”

No reasonable witness would have walked away from the store incident believing someone had just revealed that the manager works as a hooker. Thus, there is no reason to believe the manager’s reputation was harmed by the incident.

It’s not about the words that were spoken, it’s about the impression that was left on a witness. You can defame someone by implication alone. For example, “I’m not making any accusations or anything, and this is only my opinion, but Susie better hope her new boyfriend does not decide to do a criminal background check on her.”

The above statement would cause a reasonable witness to believe I have knowledge that Susie has a criminal record. The fact that I included some disclaimers means nothing in this context.

People often find it difficult to grasp the difference between a defamatory statement and an opinion. To make matters worse, some statements qualify as part opinion and part defamatory statement.

For example: “I once saw that insane woman steal a towel from our health club.” Assuming there is no other reason to believe the woman is insane, that part of the comment would be opinion. If the woman never stole a towel, the speaker’s claim that she witnessed such an incident, would be defamatory.

Again thanks for all the information. This is very interesting area of law. One last question if don't mind, in the very worst of scenarios, what would happen if the manager, on her own obtained council and launched a suit with the charge being defamation. Would the Judge, after hearing both arguments, allow the case to move onto to trial instead of dismissing it?

 

[john123456]

Again thanks for all the information. This is very interesting area of law. One last question if don't mind, in the very worst of scenarios, what would happen if the manager, on her own obtained council and launched a suit with the charge being defamation. Would the Judge, after hearing both arguments, allow the case to move onto to trial instead of dismissing it?

longdrive:

The FreeAdvice crystal ball is in the shop.

 

[Quaere]

Again thanks for all the information. This is very interesting area of law. One last question if don't mind, in the very worst of scenarios, what would happen if the manager, on her own obtained council and launched a suit with the charge being defamation.

The worst scenario for the manager is that at some point in the process, the claim will be dismissed and she will be required to pay the legal fees of the defendant.

The plaintiff_s attorney is likely to regret his involvement as well.

Would the Judge, after hearing both arguments, allow the case to move onto to trial instead of dismissing it?

I can't imagine such a claim surviving a motion to dismiss, but stranger things have happened. It would cost the manager at least $5,000.00 to pursue the claim.

WTF have you done to attract so many rude posts in this thread? Whatever your offense was it has escaped me.

 

[longdrive]

The worst scenario for the manager is that at some point in the process, the claim will be dismissed and she will be required to pay the legal fees of the defendant.

WTF have you done to attract so many rude posts in this thread? Whatever your offense was it has escaped me.

This is actually what happens? Because the plantiff simply tried and failed the case, the manager would have to pay the legal fees of the accused? That's pretty reasonable but didn't think that actually happened given the amount of law suits these days. You'd think there weren't any consequences in launching a suit.

I honestly have no idea what I did. This was my very first post on freeadvice.com. In fact, I had only registered an account to ask this question!

 

[fairisfair]

This is actually what happens? Because the plantiff simply tried and failed the case, the manager would have to pay the legal fees of the accused? That's pretty reasonable but didn't think that actually happened given the amount of law suits these days. You'd think there weren't any consequences in launching a suit.

I honestly have no idea what I did. This was my very first post on freeadvice.com. In fact, I had only registered an account to ask this question!

No one on here has been rude to you, they gave you the same answer that Quare did, just not the long explaination filled with examples. As for the crystal ball thing, well, you asked them to guess what decision a judge would make, that is impossible for anyone to do. Even probably the righteous Q.