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Counter to modify custody

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Gr3yB3ard

Junior Member
Missouri

Hi. My ex-wife has filed a motion to modify our custody. I am representing myself and have a question.

In her petition to modify it states that I have 30 days from receipt of her motion to file a counter. However, our court date has been set for a time within the 30 days.

I plan to counter with a request of removal of her visitation rights. I am also filing other counter motions against both her and her attorney, including abuse of process.

My question is: Do I still need to file the paperwork with the Circuit Clerk, for it to be served, or can I present my counter, directly to them and the judge, at our court-date, since it is within the original 30 days?

I would greatly appreciate any advice that anyone can give!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Missouri

Hi. My ex-wife has filed a motion to modify our custody. I am representing myself and have a question.

In her petition to modify it states that I have 30 days from receipt of her motion to file a counter. However, our court date has been set for a time within the 30 days.

I plan to counter with a request of removal of her visitation rights. I am also filing other counter motions against both her and her attorney, including abuse of process.

My question is: Do I still need to file the paperwork with the Circuit Clerk, for it to be served, or can I present my counter, directly to them and the judge, at our court-date, since it is within the original 30 days?

I would greatly appreciate any advice that anyone can give!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
A request to remove someone's visitation rights is a very HUGE deal. It is not something that I would attempt without an attorney, or without at least consulting an attorney. In any case, you would absolutely need to do all of this in writing, PRIOR to the hearing. I would not recommend waiting and presenting it in court.

The same thing applies to abuse of process.

You might want to run the details by us for an opinion.
 

CJane

Senior Member
What is the CURRENT custody arrangement?

What is mom wanting to modify TO?

What is your basis for completely removing her visitation?

Any lawsuit against her attorney would be completely separate, and best handled as a complaint via the bar association.
 

Gr3yB3ard

Junior Member
A request to remove someone's visitation rights is a very HUGE deal. It is not something that I would attempt without an attorney, or without at least consulting an attorney. In any case, you would absolutely need to do all of this in writing, PRIOR to the hearing. I would not recommend waiting and presenting it in court.

The same thing applies to abuse of process.

You might want to run the details by us for an opinion.
Well, the details of this case are quite lengthy, and quite honestly, horrifying, if in my shoes. I will give it a try:

About 6 months ago CPS showed up. They claimed that my 3-year-old daughter had told them that I inappropriately touched her "privates."

Immediately, I volunteered for a CVSA (lie detector), which I passed - twice.
Also, my wife had filed the 1st motion to have all of my visitation taken away. I cooperated 100% with the CPS worker and the detectives. The detectives dropped their investigation, within 10 minutes of my passing the CVSA. My 3 year old, and her autistic sister (also my daughter) underwent full medical exams. The exams found no signs of abuse.

Their 1st attempt at removing the visitation, they brought in a psychologist (their so-called expert witness) who testified that she believed that I had committed this crime.

I posed a question to the therapist of, "Is it possible that someone had persuaded my daughter into making such a statement and if she had examined the possibility?"

She said yes, it was possible and no, she had not examined that possibility.

The judge stopped the proceedings and dismissed the case on grounds of lack of evidence.

Now, she and her lawyer have filed yet another motion, alleging the same thing. Only this time they have changed the wording of my daughter's initial statement. (originally they said that "I inserted my finger" now they are saying "touched.")

My daughter has now told her therapist that alleged incident occurred while I was actually driving my car. That she was in the rear seat of my truck, directly behind me. My daughter also has an overhead latch, which buckles between her legs, making it impossible for this to happen.

The G.A.L. (who had sided with my ex during the divorce and was biased against me) has said that no abuse has occurred.

The therapist is further investigating, now believing that, in fact, my daughter HAD been told to lie.

Also, during this time (the past 6 months) my ex called my place of employment and told them that I was a, "child molester." Which, I left that place (due to the harassment.) I have not been able to find work since then, due to our decree stating that I must notify her of any change of employment. Any time that I do she calls the business and informs them of the same thing.

So, they have filed a motion for removal of visitation and back child support.

They have no evidence (even their therapist has sided with me).
Her lawyer has knowingly and purposely changed the wording of my daughter's statements.
I have testimony of CPS, County detectives, a medical exam and my daughters therapist.

The reason why I am "going this alone" is because the lawyers that I have spoken with are reluctant to pursue a case against another attorney. Not for fear of losing, but, for fear of winning. Lawyers don't want to be known as the one that beats a peer. And quite honestly, I don't trust that a lawyer will go to the lengths that are needed to win.

In my counter I plan to file the abuse of process and malicious prosecution, via a civil suit. Where I am asking for damages.
I am requesting a trial by jury.
I am also seeking damages from my ex and her attorney for slander.
I am asking that HER visitation be taken (because of manipulating my daughter to make these allegations - causing mental abuse)

I think that's about it (sorry so long) but it's the nutshell of what has been occurring. There are other minor details, but this is the bulk.

Our current visitation schedule is every other weekend.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
In my counter I plan to file the abuse of process and malicious prosecution, via a civil suit. Where I am asking for damages.
1. I am requesting a trial by jury.
2 . I am also seeking damages from my ex and her attorney for slander.
3. I am asking that HER visitation be taken (because of manipulating my daughter to make these allegations - causing mental abuse)

I think that's about it (sorry so long) but it's the nutshell of what has been occurring. There are other minor details, but this is the bulk.

Our current visitation schedule is every other weekend.
I have read your reasons...but dude, you REALLY need an attorney.

Point #2 - Courtroom proceedings are protected from defamation suits (including slander) - this won't even get off the ground. Don't waste time on this, because it's not going to happen. If they say anything out of court that may be a different matter but again as far as anything said inside the court-room? It's protected - you cannot sue for slander. Perhaps more importantly though defamation suits can be extremely costly and lengthy to litigate and even more stressful for a pro se litigant.

Point #3 - Tit-for-tat motions are not looked upon favorably in the court-room and you have so far not shown proof that the child was deliberately forced to testify untruthfully.

OP, you are in grave danger of completely screwing yourself - please, do not do anything like this without an attorney. At least have an initial consultation or two?
 
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Gr3yB3ard

Junior Member
I have read your reasons...but dude, you REALLY need an attorney.

Point #2 - Courtroom proceedings are protected from defamation suits (including slander) - this won't even get off the ground. Don't waste time on this, because it's not going to happen. If they say anything out of court that may be a different matter but again as far as anything said inside the court-room? It's protected - you cannot sue for slander. Perhaps more importantly though defamation suits can be extremely costly and lengthy to litigate and even more stressful for a pro se litigant.

Point #3 - Tit-for-tat motions are not looked upon favorably in the court-room and you have so far not shown proof that the child was deliberately forced to testify untruthfully.

OP, you are in grave danger of completely screwing yourself - please, do not do anything like this without an attorney. At least have an initial consultation or two?
The motion of slander is not directed at anything said in the courtroom. It has been statements that are made outside of the courtroom. (Such as my ex calling my place of employment.) Literally, she has told this same thing to 50 people. Both my ex and her attorney have made similar statements, away from the courtroom.

As far as Tit-for-tat motions - the judge that had previously thrown the case out had questioned me as to why I had not filed counters and suggested that I do.

My daughter's own therapist will be testifying that my daughter has been told to lie. A CPS worker will be testifying that if the incident did not occur then someone told her what to say.

I have had 4 initial consultations with attorneys and all have agreed to accept the case - if I do not pursue another attorney. (because of the previously mentioned reason.)
 

Ronin

Member
Also, during this time (the past 6 months) my ex called my place of employment and told them that I was a, "child molester." Which, I left that place (due to the harassment.) I have not been able to find work since then, due to our decree stating that I must notify her of any change of employment. Any time that I do she calls the business and informs them of the same thing.
This may be grounds for a cause for action for slander. Quincy in the Libel/Slander/Defamation forum can best answer this for you. So try posting this section only in that forum and avoid all the other "stuff".

Beyond this, I agree with the suggestion that you are screwing yourself by attempting to pursue any lawsuits as a pro se for malicious prosecution or abuse of process. Attorneys have a lot of immunity from abuse of process claims arising from their actions on behalf of their clients. If you cannot prevail on all the required elements of these causes of action, any such lawsuits will be dismissed at the first hearing.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
The motion of slander is not directed at anything said in the courtroom. It has been statements that are made outside of the courtroom. (Such as my ex calling my place of employment.) Literally, she has told this same thing to 50 people. Both my ex and her attorney have made similar statements, away from the courtroom.
Then by all means. But again, please, be aware of what you're taking on. While an accusation of molestation is absolutely considered defamatory again it's not going to be easy taking this to court and it will not be happening any time soon - it is also a completely separate matter than your family law case. Did these accusations occur before the investigation was closed, or after?

If you wish I will ask quincy, who is incredibly more knowledgeable about slander and defamation, to take a look at your thread and offer his thoughts.

As far as Tit-for-tat motions - the judge that had previously thrown the case out had questioned me as to why I had not filed counters and suggested that I do.
A counter motion does not need to be a direct reflection of the original motion - in fact in this case it's the last thing I'd do. You need a valid reason and you're attempting to use something that will be frankly impossible to prove.

To wit...

My daughter's own therapist will be testifying that my daughter has been told to lie. A CPS worker will be testifying that if the incident did not occur then someone told her what to say.
This is very troubling - there are at least two other possibilities and any half-decent attorney will shoot that statement down virtually before it's left the CPS worker's mouth.

I have had 4 initial consultations with attorneys and all have agreed to accept the case - if I do not pursue another attorney. (because of the previously mentioned reason.)
If you have four attorneys ready to take the case...I'm not entirely sure how we can help you? :confused:
 

Gr3yB3ard

Junior Member
This may be grounds for a cause for action for slander. Quincy in the Libel/Slander/Defamation forum can best answer this for you. So try posting this section only in that forum and avoid all the other "stuff".

Beyond this, I agree with the suggestion that you are screwing yourself by attempting to pursue any lawsuits as a pro se for malicious prosecution or abuse of process. Attorneys have a lot of immunity from abuse of process claims arising from their actions on behalf of their clients. If you cannot prevail on all the required elements of these causes of action, any such lawsuits will be dismissed at the first hearing.
Thanks for the info on the slander.

To be honest, this has become a HUGE task to undertake. I would be willing to be represented by a lawyer, but, as I have said, I am not able to find work at this time. Every lawyer that I have spoken to want thousands of dollars for this case, and I simply do not have it. A court appointed attorney will simply, "halfheartedly" work the case. And, as it is a matter of great importance - I NEED SOMEONE WHO WILL FIGHT!!!

There are a lot of things that i am trying to consider in this case....
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Thanks for the info on the slander.

To be honest, this has become a HUGE task to undertake. I would be willing to be represented by a lawyer, but, as I have said, I am not able to find work at this time. Every lawyer that I have spoken to want thousands of dollars for this case, and I simply do not have it. A court appointed attorney will simply, "halfheartedly" work the case. And, as it is a matter of great importance - I NEED SOMEONE WHO WILL FIGHT!!!

There are a lot of things that i am trying to consider in this case....
Did the attorneys explain exactly what they will be doing for you should you hire them?
 

gr8rn

Senior Member
What did the attorney say outside the courtroom and to whom?

Do you have proof? (of him slandering you)
 

Gr3yB3ard

Junior Member
OK that's not actually what I meant - sorry, I'll rephrase!

Did these attorneys offer to take care of everything you've discussed here? Certain parts?
They claimed they would handle all of it.

But, I'm not sure that they would.
 
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Gr3yB3ard

Junior Member
What did the attorney say outside the courtroom and to whom?

Do you have proof? (of him slandering you)
Her attorney has said the same thing, that I am, "a child molester."

Yes, there were witnesses.

If anything I would drop the part of pursuing her lawyer, however, I WILL NOT drop a civil case against my ex.

The fact is, this case has been a complete abuse of the entire process. All a mother has to do is make an accusation, and "poof" the father is guilty.

However, I can not even get CPS to respond, even though the situation has changed. And, the mother has directed the child. It is a completely unfair process to fathers and our rights.
 

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