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court failed to mail me hearing summary.

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johnathan1

Junior Member
I don't think there are many "bogus commentators."
Well then IMO you are actually one of them after all, as is confirmed by your liking of this flagrantly bogus comment:

"...p.s. I already know I am a moron, so please no need to submit useless ad hominum attacks against me; if you comment isn't useful, say nothing please.

--Johnathan
What do you consider a useful comment? It's a valid and important question that needs to be answered before the volunteers waste their time.
Like
Silverplum, Blue Meanie and quincy like this."

This is my opinion and mine alone.
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Well then IMO you are actually one of them after all, as is confirmed by your liking of this flagrantly bogus comment:

"...p.s. I already know I am a moron, so please no need to submit useless ad hominum attacks against me; if you comment isn't useful, say nothing please.

--Johnathan
What do you consider a useful comment? It's a valid and important question that needs to be answered before the volunteers waste their time.
Like
Silverplum, Blue Meanie and quincy like this."

This is my opinion and mine alone.
Quincy's posts are some of the best on this board. YOU are the one with the problem here. Go pay an attorney. :rolleyes:
 

Paul84

Member
Johnathan,
I'm also proceeding pro se in federal court (New York). Don't be too intimidated by the fancy legal language of motions. D.C. is probably similar to New York: here you just write a letter or entitle it "Letter Motion" to show that you are asking the judge to do something, with the case name and number in the title: e.g. Letter Motion to Show Cause for Failure to Respond in X v Y 14-cv-12345.

Address the letter to Dear Judge [name]:

Refer to him or her as "Your Honor", explain your reasons, and end with "Respectfully submitted." Just state the facts as you've done, don't blame the judge, your opponent, or anyone else, thank the judge for giving you the opportunity to explain, and "respectfully ask" him/her to grant you time to respond. You might want to also ask in the same letter--they usually allow them to go for three pages--if you can register for the Electronic Case Filing (ECF) system so that the court will automatically email to you notice of changes to your case's docket: e.g. whenever your opponent or the court files something to which you need to respond.

Three other points I forgot to include in my earlier version of this response:

(1) You have to put on the letter that you have "cc'ed the opposing party's attorney" and the means of doing so (via email or posted to their address). This is crucial: otherwise, the judge may ignore your letter since it would be unfair to act on your request if the other party does not have a chance to see the request and reply as well (also cc'ing you or mailing a letter copy).

(2) If you think you need to explain yourself in person or by phone to the judge--i.e. to have a hearing (also known as a conference)--you should state this in your letter and entitle it "Pre-Conference Motion (PCM) Letter". The same three-page limit applies--at least this is how it's done with my federal judge in New York. You can check the court's website and your judge's rules to see his or her preference. Even if you make such a PCM letter, unless it's a complicated issue, the judge will often just rule via written order without any hearing or conference. Sometimes, they'll even do it via "endorsed order"--just typing or even scribbling on top of your letter their decision with "So Ordered, Signed Judge So-and-So".

(3) To make the letter the equivalent of a declaration (i.e. equal to a sworn affidavit) that is admissible as evidence, use the following language in your concluding paragraph: "I declare, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1746 and Fed. R. Civ. P. 56(c)(4), under penalty of perjury, that the foregoing is true and correct, the foregoing facts are based on our personal knowledge, and I am competent to testify on all the foregoing matters. Executed on XX Month 2015 in (your city)."

Thanks so much for the feedback PaulMass, LdiJ, FlyingRon, and quincy.

New intel: I called the court to explain that I never got what they now explained is a missing minute order. They said I need to file a paper notifying the court that I never got something called a minute order that was allegedly sent out. Our mail carrier might be on drugs for all I know, so I am not that shocked.

Question 1. Should I entitle this "Notice of failure to receive minute order" or is there a better title?

PaulMass, the content of the minute order I am missing is likely discernible (but not positive) from the ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE. That isn't the point. The issue is can I use the fact that they messed up to get more time and if so how do I do it. Trust me if I got the minute order with the date I would have put it in my calendar and not have missed it. I am very busy and rely on people. In this case the judge's minute order to be mailed, which is was not at least successfully.

LdiJ, FlyingRon, and quincy, this is interesting. The plain meaning (to me) of the order seemed opposite of what all of you guys think. I could call the court and ask them which meaning of the order is correct. Is that a good idea? Regardless, I googled the phrase and came to http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Show+Cause+Order . Seems these can come from the parties and not just the courts? If so why is it called an order? I have to assume you guys are largely correct but I am not sure if totally. My new best guess is that not only do I need to file my opposition, but, in the opposition I need to have a section entitled, "SHOWING FOR WHY THIS MOTION SHOULD BE CONSIDERED EVEN THOUGH IT IS BEING FILED AFTER FEB. X.". Is that the title the section should have? Perhaps there is a better title? Should it be filed separately? On the same date?

So right now I am submitting a notice that I never got the minute order even thought I told them this over the phone. If anyone has any feedback about how to bundle that Notice with one or more of the following please chime in:

1. Notice of failure to receive minute order.
2. A possible motion for another extension of time due to not getting the minute order. I don't know how to count days and the dates were not discussed in the hearing anyway. All that I needed to know is that I was to get a document summarizing what we needed to know at some point, and I didn't, so I assumed I had more time since I originally requested more time.
3. A SHOWING OF CAUSE (is that the real title I should use) that I was late due to not getting the minute order which has apparently the due date.
4a. My motion to oppose their motion to dismiss on the merits (which is now past due).
4b. Instead of 4a, my motion to opposite their motion to dismiss on the grounds that the issue is now moot since the case will be dismissed under 41(a)(i). (See 5.)
5. My own motion to file a VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE UNDER RULE 41(a)(i). The motivation here is that there is to minimize res judicata against me. Once I have enough money (there are two banks and a mini mart I guess I could rob, to hire an attorney I can have the case properly handled. POST PROOF EDIT: JUST KIDDING I AM NOT ACTUALLY PLANNING ON ROBBING BANKS TO HIRE ATTORNEY).
6. Declaration that I never got the minute order.
7. Draft order to dismiss the case under 41(a)(i).

I mean procedurally I wish I had an idea of what to entitle the various documents and how they should be packaged and submitted.

Unedited brainstorming: I personally think it is reasonable to get more time since I never got the minute order. The court messed up and it is a reasonable thing to do IMO. Basically you need an attorney to know how to count days since I don't know from which date or whatever and I relied upon getting the minute order since it was clear I could sit back and wait till it arrived. But if the courts want to play hardball as seems likely based on the replies here they are on the attack against pro ses it is definitely a good strategy to hurt pro ses by arguing that nothing needs to be mailed by courts and it was my obligation to get a pacer account. But my take is that I didn't get the minute order as was promised.

Any more kibitzing about my situation certainly would be most appreciated.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Johnathan,
I'm also proceeding pro se in federal court (New York). Don't be too intimidated by the fancy legal language of motions. D.C. is probably similar to New York: here you just write a letter or entitle it "Letter Motion" to show that you are asking the judge to do something, with the case name and number in the title: e.g. Letter Motion to Show Cause for Failure to Respond in X v Y 14-cv-12345.

Address the letter to Dear Judge [name]:

Refer to him or her as "Your Honor", explain your reasons, and end with "Respectfully submitted." Just state the facts as you've done, don't blame the judge, your opponent, or anyone else, thank the judge for giving you the opportunity to explain, and "respectfully ask" him/her to grant you time to respond. You might want to also ask in the same letter--they usually allow them to go for three pages--if you can register for the Electronic Case Filing (ECF) system so that the court will automatically email to you notice of changes to your case's docket: e.g. whenever your opponent or the court files something to which you need to respond.
First, thank you, Zigner. I guess I should have paid more attention to Johnathan's self-assessment in his first post. ;)

Second, thank you, Paul84, for not only providing Johnathan with some direction (although I still think it would behoove him to see an attorney in DC - some judges are pretty strict when it comes to format) but especially thank you for always being so pleasant to the volunteers when you come to this site. It can make a difference in the type of help a poster receives from the members.

Your own case has provided you with a lot of experience and some valuable knowledge. I hope you will consider volunteering on this site when your time allows.
 
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Paul84

Member
First, thank you, Zigner. I guess I should have paid more attention to Johnathan's self-assessment in his first post. ;)

Second, thank you, Paul84, for not only providing Johnathan with some direction (although I still think it would behoove him to see an attorney in DC - some judges are pretty strict when it comes to format) but especially thank you for always being so pleasant to the volunteers when you come to this site. It can make a difference in the type of help a poster receives from the members.

Your own case has provided you with a lot of experience and some valuable knowledge. I hope you will consider volunteering on this site when your time allows.
Thanks, Quincy. Yes, definitely I hope to share my experience with other pro se litigants or those thinking about proceeding pro se when time allows.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Thanks, Quincy. Yes, definitely I hope to share my experience with other pro se litigants or those thinking about proceeding pro se when time allows.
I think your posting history alone on this forum can be instructive for posters who are thinking about proceeding with a legal action pro se. I do not think most people realize how much time and effort must be expended - or how much needs to be learned if one hopes to be successful. :)
 

johnathan1

Junior Member
To the moderators of this thread, my detailed reply outing many was deleted by you. Can you at least send me a pm admitting with particularity why?
 

quincy

Senior Member
I believe your post was reported due to its questionable content, Johnathan1.

Good luck with your legal action.
 

johnathan1

Junior Member
I believe your post was reported due to its questionable content, Johnathan1.
IMO, if it is were questionable, it could have just been refuted on the merits. Therefore, it was deleted exactly because it was unquestionable.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
IMO, if it is were questionable, it could have just been refuted on the merits. Therefore, it was deleted exactly because it was unquestionable.
Please read the terms of service. This is not a place to debate whether you like the forum or its members or not.

You received advice. Use it to the best of your ability or ignore it.

Good luck.
 
This is not a place to debate whether you like the forum or its members or not.

You received advice. Use it to the best of your ability or ignore it.

Good luck.
I think that was really well said.

I think he got some good advice, and that he would do well to go from there. He's got a long road ahead in court - if he can keep his case alive.
 

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